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      02-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #87
verbs
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Drives: 2013 335i M-Sport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
There's only been a moderate hp gain because it seems that the new M3 will have almost no power gain as compared to the E9x M3 (rumours have it at between 430 - 450 hp).
I don't see how you can say that. Is 100 lb-ft of peak torque gain with even more than that under the curve, and a subsequent sizeable horsepower jump under the curve as well almost no power gain? Peak numbers aren't the end all, especially on the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
I disagree with you that the new M3 F80 will be substantially lighter than the F30 Alpina. They will share the same chassis, and without heavy use of carbon fibre (which is excluded for cost reasons) a substantial weight reduction seems very unlikely for me to achieve. Granted, the new M3 biturbo engine will be lighter than the previous V8 (but also have to feature a water-to-air intercooler and other mechanics for the two turbos), and as previously they'll use a CF roof and lots of aluminium in the suspension. But that *might* gain 100lbs if compared to a 335i / Alpina B3, which in this weight class is negligble. Just look at the M3 CRT - even with the use of carbon fibre the weight reduction was almost non-existent.
There are a number of ways weight can be dropped. Lighter sports seats, lighter weight wheels, lighter weight exhaust system, carbon fiber driveshaft, lighter weight battery, smaller gas tank since the car will get a lot better mileage, a few lbs from lighter engine internals, maybe a magnesium engine cradle if it's not being used currently, etc.... and as we've seen in testing carbon ceramic rotors which shave nearly 50lbs themselves. And if the M3 wants to get real serious about weight loss and back to its roots a bit, a reduction/disallowance of certain amenities.

Carbon fiber has gotten a lot cheaper of late, so I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW increasing its use of it....and BMW is currently partnering with BMW to improve carbon fiber manufacturing/recycling techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but the last few years have not given any indication that BMW sees weight reduction on mass-production cars as a priority (at present).
While I'm not getting my hopes up too high, there have been rumblings of this, and keep in mind, weight loss falls into BMW's efficient dynamics mantra while allowing for improved performance.

From that linked article:
Quote:
M engineers have targeted the E46 M3 weight in developing the F80/F82.The E46 M3's curb weight is 3,415 lb, while the current E90 M3 and E92 M3 weigh 3,726 and 3,704 pounds, respectively
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