[tony20009]

This discussion is unreal, but unsurprising.

First off, BMW want to sell as many cars as they can and maximize their market share. Producing cars that cater more to the sporting crowd than to the hoi polloi is probably not the best way to accomplish that for incorporating the sport "bones" into the car makes its price be higher if they must also include the gadgets and conveniences that many people want in a car costing $40K+. Thus, we have the F30. Period.

R&T and their ilk opine on vehicles and the magazines' preferences is for sporting performance, although day-to-day functionality is a factor. But it's a factor that's important to them when it suits their purposes. There's a reason for that: there's no dearth of cars that handle with great aplomb every need one could have of a car that must accomplish life's little chores. Also, R&T's writers are paid to have an opinion, so they most certainly will have one. And, like all the opinions shared on here, their opinion will be subjective and based on their priorities. After all, what's objective about saying one prefers apples to oranges?

Like R&T, I prefer the E9x cars. (I have yet to drive an F32, so that car doesn't play into my point of view.) But that's my opinion and I can tell you for sure that to the extent my opinion must guide my choices, it's the right opinion, and quite frankly, the only one that matters. But the fact is that BMW will very shortly have no new E9x vehicles available for sale. And since I only buy new cars, it doesn't matter that I prefer the E9x. I may choose to keep my E92 when the time comes to get a new DD; I may not. The undeniable fact is that I'm able to assess my own situation and choose a car that best meets my needs. What R&T has to say is nice to read, and I enjoy reading theirs and their competitors magazines, but all of them are little more than an very effective sleep aid to me.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

...
For this test, I say it again.

No surprises.

If it was 5 years ago and they brought out an E46 they would swoon for it and choose it over the E90. That is what they do.

These guys are not spending money on getting the best all around car-DD for their families. They are just visiting, vacationing.

... the F30 [is] more appealing than the E90, enough so where people vote with money and make the choice to live with it every day.
...
There are reasons I and many others found enough good reasons to pass on the E90 for DD duties in the past 5 years. ...I wanted a second BMW parked next to my first. But [the E90] just gave me too many reasons to pass. The F30 did not.

...

(Apologies, J, for the messed up formatting in quoting you....I tried to fix it, but this thing didn't want to follow my directions.)

I can't say yet whether I buy the "vacation" argument or not. I can say that I agree the F30 handles DD chores better than the E90, even if only by dint of its greater interior space and potential to deliver better fuel economy. But then comparing the two versions of 328 on the basis of their aptness as DDs isn't what R&T were doing.

As for voting with one's money, I probably won't ever buy an F30/F32 to drive as my DD. Not because I have an issue with it, for I don't, I bought one for my son, but because there's nothing wrong with my E92 and as long as that continues to be the case, I won't need to replace it. The F30's a fine car, but it's not so fine that it makes me feel I need to race out and buy one.

Moreover, I'm not so certain (and I mean not certain), as a line of argument, that in this case folks' acquisition of an F30 matters. It seems, based on what I read here on B-post, that the vast majority of folks lease their BMWs. Those folks don't have a lot of choice. The F30 is the best car in its class, so one can't blame someone for choosing it. Also, I hardly expect folks who lease to jump on here and say that their cars are crap or sub-par in some way. That's not what R&T were saying.

I'm guessing that you buy your cars. And, I glean from your other posts on B-post that you are something of a practical fellow, much as I am. Therefore, I wonder to what extent your not getting an E9x is a function of simply having a DD that worked just fine and, much as I feel about the F3x, the next generation 3er, nice as it was, simply wasn't compelling enough to warrant dashing out to get one. Though I know, barring some misfortune, I won't ever personally have an F3x, it's pretty likely that I will buy the next version of 3er to replace my E92, if for no other reason than that by then, my E92 will be a bit long in the tooth and I'll just want something new. (Hopefully it'll be "want" not "must be replaced" that motivates the purchase. We'll see...)

Originally Posted by Phaeron

...

Again though these are the same guys who have spoke ill on cars because they didn't offer a manual option.

You can discount what I am about to say but it is true. Review Magazines tend to only hand out bad review like these when either the Manufacturer is not spending enough adverts from them or the manufacturer is unwilling to contest. They do not make money to give consumer advice.. they make money by selling adverts. ...

Shit article by a shitty C&D spin off....

It's a shame that what was otherwise a germane and important consideration adding perspective for readers who may not have considered R&T's motivations was marred by your devolving, at the end of your post, into an ad hominem aspersion. I was with you up to that point, but upon seeing that, it made me question whether your pathos got in the way of sound analysis and whether your disagreement with R&T was thusly driven.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

...Meanwhile, whether the E46 325 like you describe or the last E90s, they sounded great-so smooth, so sexy. But guess what. Slow is slow.
...

OK, I'll buy that slow is what it is. But, really, is either of them so slow that that shortcoming would make them fail as a DD? And isn't your central thesis from your initial post that the F30 is better as a DD? If that be so, what difference will one second sooner to 60 make when comparing on the DD merits two cars both which are already faster than the majority of other cars on the road? Nobody can claim either is too slow to do what's needed on public roads.

Nice exhaust/engine sounds and greater speed are bonus attributes, but as critical factors in choosing a DD do they matter much if at all? I would argue that the sounds have no weight at all in that contest, and that the speed, so long long as it's "enough" is inconsequential.

I agree that the F30 is better as a DD. R&T's editors apparently agree, or at least won't argue the point. Yes, overall, the F30 is better, for one cannot ignore any aspect if that is one's basis for judging. However, at least for myself, some of the the things that make the F30 better overall don't matter to me. For example, I don't care that it has more space; I drive a couple, I need space for two people. I don't drive as much as most folks (I just did pass the 50K mile mark on a '07); so the better fuel economy, though not lost on me, is of marginal value to me.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

...So the BMW 328 has the best drivetrain in it's class. I think that's cool. But only when you come on here do you see people really poo-poo it.

That fact does make one wonder. The only thing I can offer is what my Aunt Louise told me as a child: never let the good be the enemy of the best. Perhaps the nay sayers, driven passionately by their love for BMWs, are only voicing their desire to see the car become even better. If You don't let it be known that an attribute displeases you, how can others know to take steps to do something about it? (I'll give folks the benefit of the doubt and hope they aren't just being argumentative for its own sake. )

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

I think what the writers are getting at, is that the the 3 series has grown in to a luxury 4 door sedan that is a far cry from what the original intent was. It is starting to be just another Camry or Lexus. Sure it is good car and still better than those, but like the article said, the gap to the competition has never been closer.

....

I don't agree that it's another Camry or Lexus. There can be no doubt, BMW must imbue in the 3er the qualities that Lexus/Camry buyers want. However, the 3erhas a sporting character -- to say nothing of actual ability -- that neither of those cars has. Even so, at least one recent review cited the Lexus IS as being the 3er's equal as goes sporting ability, but put the BMW ahead based on its greater utility as a DD. To the extent that BMW has customers like me for whom space and fuel economy don't matter much, BMW should be concerned, particularly in that the Toyota corporation has a well deserved reputation for building rock solid cars.