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      02-07-2014, 10:37 AM   #18
jdong
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Drives: 2013 BMW ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NorCal

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Makes sense and thanks for sharing.

I think this car will behave more in-line with what I expected the AH3 to be.. more short trips gas-free, more efficiency, etc.

My AH3 has been a great car so far, but I don't think I'll make the move to a 320e. I definitely don't want to take a step backwards in performance or driving dynamics. The 435i Gran Coupe seems more my speed for late 2015.
That's exactly what I mean. When I bought my AH3, I demanded a performance sedan (0-60 in 5s, faster than my ECU-tuned Audi A4 2.0T), but within those criteria i was also willing to pay any amount extra for better gas mileage, as an environmental goodwill gesture.

The "320e" would not fit that bill for me. Its performance estimates place it slower than a Japanese minivan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Personally, while this is interesting, I think the future is high-tech diesel and eventually, fuel cells. I'm already getting 36mpg in my 335i 8AT on the highway, and the new 528d is supposed to have a 6-cylinder diesel with even higher MPG.

The one thing that bothers me about hybrids is the additional weight, the amount of electricity and time it takes to charge them up, and what to do with the toxic-material batteries when they're no longer usable. Tesla yaks about having charging stations all over the country, but that's years away; my employer has an area in one of our main campus' parking lots that has solar cells for a roof, but a limited number of spaces. For urban and near-suburban commuting, they make sense - but then there's the question of where the additional power for charging comes from.

Unless the additional infrastructure to add more power to the grid is done with wind or solar, we're probably generating more emissions at the power plants than hybrids supposedly would eliminate. What happens when everyone comes home in the evening and plugs their hybrid in? We already get "brownouts" from air conditioning and electric stoves/ovens, etc., in the summertime.

Also - where do people who live in apartments plug in their cars? Do they run a 200-ft extension cord out their door or window? Until there's a way to produce clean additional electric power for charging with a convenient infrastructure, hybrids are not going to be all that practical or popular if you consider the bigger picture. Battery technology still has quite a ways to go yet, but eventually there'll be a better solution.
There's some good points here and some misinformed points. First of all, remember that hybrids/electrics excel at city fuel economy, while diesels are best at highway cruising. Note that on my commute route in California, a 2014 328i loaner got 20mpg on average over a week. I had a 2013 135i for a month, and that thing got 14mpg with its DSG. But the AH3 can regularly achieve 23-24mpg commuting down this route.

Electric cars are already starting to make sense in a lot of markets, especially in California. At my work, there's over 20 electric spots per building, and they are all powered by renewable forms of energy. Telsa's supercharger network is supposed to be solar powered and hence energy-neutral as well.

Note that electric vehicle charging actually draws power at a lower rate than air conditioning units for the most part. Furthermore, much like how a Nest thermostat works with the electric company for off-peak charging, most electric cars have software that varies the charging rate based off peak and off peak hours, at your choosing. Not to mention most people at home will charge their cars at night, which is off-peak for air conditioning anyway.

Indeed people who live in apartments cannot viably have an electric car. That's why I have not bought one yet. The only thing that works for me is a decent plug-in-hybrid, where even if I don't manage to charge my car at work, at least it won't be a brick.

As far as toxicity of batteries, honestly cars are one of the best recycled items, and hybrid cars have the most advanced energy management controllers than anything else on the market. They carefully control their charging and their batteries will outlast the lifetime of the vehicle (unless you're a retard like the Nissan Leaf battery pack vendor), and at the end of useful life, car parts tend to be recycled. I'd argue that poorly controlled laptops and cell phones waste a TON more lithium by overcharging / over discharging battery packs, giving Li-ion the impression that it lasts a year before capacity tanks.
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