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      02-18-2013, 09:35 AM   #101
Alpina_B3_Lux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
I don't see how you can say that. Is 100 lb-ft of peak torque gain with even more than that under the curve, and a subsequent sizeable horsepower jump under the curve as well almost no power gain? Peak numbers aren't the end all, especially on the track.
I think you misunderstood me. I never claimed that there was not more torque or more hp under the curve; although I haven't seen a hp/torque curve for the new B3 that can certainly be true. I was only commenting on the fact that 410 hp compared to 400 for the B3 S Biturbo (E9x) is only a very slight increase. Previous iterations have seen far larger jumps in power (and also torque), such as 55hp between the E46 B3 S and the B3 BT or even the 40hp between the E9x B3 BT and B3 S BT.

And my point was that Alpina would be able to achieve a far larger jump in power, but that due to the almost nonexistent power jump of the new M3 compared to its predecessor, they were not allowed to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
There are a number of ways weight can be dropped. Lighter sports seats, lighter weight wheels, lighter weight exhaust system, carbon fiber driveshaft, lighter weight battery, smaller gas tank since the car will get a lot better mileage, a few lbs from lighter engine internals, maybe a magnesium engine cradle if it's not being used currently, etc.... and as we've seen in testing carbon ceramic rotors which shave nearly 50lbs themselves. And if the M3 wants to get real serious about weight loss and back to its roots a bit, a reduction/disallowance of certain amenities.
The latter will never happen, because there exist no sizable market for an M3 with loss of amenities / ride comfort these days. That may be unfortunate and both of us may not share that view, but it's a fact - were BMW to do that, that would only be possible for a limited edition special model such as the CSL or GTS in the past. The mainstream M3 must still be a daily drivable car, otherwise it will not sell - and that means it has to have all the comfort accessories that people today are used to.

Also, I don't see carbon ceramic rotors on an M3. Maybe as an option (as for the M5), but remember that the M3 targets far lower in price than the M5 and high-cost items like this cannot be integrated as a standard option into a car that is based on a 3 series.

The rest of the stuff you listed may very well happen, but these measures (that have already been tried out partially by the GTS and CRT models) will in my opinion not result in a weight reduction that is going to be significant enough to make a difference performance wise. Anything that would do that would need to modify the 3 series setup to a point where the M3 would have little in common with its normal siblings; and that would mean it would simply be out of a price range that is marketable for that model.

Personally I believe that a significant weight reduction can only be done by way of a complete alu chassis (like Audi has been doing as well as Ferrari) or an extensive use of carbon fiber (like McLaren or Lamborghini). BMW does not have the expertise for the former, and the latter is currently cost-prohibitive for all but supercars. That may very well change (apparently BMW will move there with the next 7 series), but we are still far from a point where you can use carbon fiber for models that are mass-market. There would not even exist factories that could cope with this demand today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
Carbon fiber has gotten a lot cheaper of late, so I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW increasing its use of it....and BMW is currently partnering with BMW to improve carbon fiber manufacturing/recycling techniques.

While I'm not getting my hopes up too high, there have been rumblings of this, and keep in mind, weight loss falls into BMW's efficient dynamics mantra while allowing for improved performance.
Yes, but right now that's more of an efficient marketing strategy than anything else. There is not even one single existing model where we have seen significant weight reduction - rather the contrary, if you look at the present 5 and 6 and 7 series, and let's not even speak about the lumbering X models.

Alpina_B3_Lux
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Audi R8 LMX, BMW M550i xDrive (G30 LCI); gone: Alpina B3 3,3 (E46), BMW 335i, Audi R8 V10 manual, Audi R8 V10, BMW M235i, BMW 550i F10
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