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      02-21-2012, 04:10 AM   #67
jclariel
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Actually it's 3 foreign plus 2 mainland. They're all raping us (govt included).
To be fair, look at the latest price hikes. All of them were initiated by Caltax or Shell.....
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      02-21-2012, 05:06 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jclariel View Post
Sinopec can always do better fuels. Low quality only existing in Canton province or some other lower tier cities/places. Even for the current grade, Sinopec/China petro are doing ok in big cities like Shanghai or Beijing where I bet there are far more luxury/ultra-luxury cars running on the street.

i guess I am from Taiwan thus I don't have the prejudice to the mainland products like most Hongkie do. I always go with the best price/quality ratio products. I am using Sinopec alot in HK as it works well with my car + they offer the most discount.
The quality of PRC fuel is more or less the same between Canton, BJ or Shanghai. Do u know Canton is the richest province in the whole of PRC (i.e. has largest share of national GDP)? So if fuel in Canton is bad then it's also bad in other areas. Of course, bad is relative to HK, it may be better than other places such as India or Russia.
As I said b4, Sinopec/PetroChina's fuel that are sold in HK come from the same refinery (& refined to the same standard) as the big 3, only the additives are different (i.e. less advanced). So if u buy the cheapest brand it is still RON98 & EU-compliant in terms of Sulpur levels. Therefore Sinopec/PetroChina in HK doesn't equal to Sinopec/PetroChina in PRC.
For me I use Esso as I have discount from them which matches wht Sinopec gives, plus I only use the cheap version anyway.
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      02-21-2012, 05:07 AM   #69
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To be fair, look at the latest price hikes. All of them were initiated by Caltax or Shell.....
Cos they have the largest network in HK. The truth is, all of them play follow the leader.
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      02-21-2012, 05:37 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
The quality of PRC fuel is more or less the same between Canton, BJ or Shanghai. Do u know Canton is the richest province in the whole of PRC (i.e. has largest share of national GDP)? So if fuel in Canton is bad then it's also bad in other areas. Of course, bad is relative to HK, it may be better than other places such as India or Russia.
As I said b4, Sinopec/PetroChina's fuel that are sold in HK come from the same refinery (& refined to the same standard) as the big 3, only the additives are different (i.e. less advanced). So if u buy the cheapest brand it is still RON98 & EU-compliant in terms of Sulpur levels. Therefore Sinopec/PetroChina in HK doesn't equal to Sinopec/PetroChina in PRC.
For me I use Esso as I have discount from them which matches wht Sinopec gives, plus I only use the cheap version anyway.
For sure Canton has the higher GDP as a Province mainly because it has more higher tier cities (say Guangzhou and Shenzhen?) Still, Shanghai along already count 40% of total Canton GDP (2trn of SH vs. 5.3trn in Caton). I was trying to argue that lots of bad news are coming from Canton province which is not the whole picture. I lived in Shanghai for 3 yrs and Beijing for a year and half for work. Frankly don't see much issue with the fuel out there but rather more news from lower tier cities where the business structure gets quite complicated if you know what I mean.

Back to original topic, then counter argument would be if Sinopec adopts the same standard for HK, I don't see low quality fuel issue you mentioned earlier.
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      02-21-2012, 05:40 AM   #71
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Cos they have the largest network in HK. The truth is, all of them play follow the leader.
This is bad man! I just feel unsecured once your fuel industry/market is dominated by foreign brands.

Well, I guess HK does not need to worry about this given its social-political stance.
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      02-21-2012, 06:42 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclariel View Post
For sure Canton has the higher GDP as a Province mainly because it has more higher tier cities (say Guangzhou and Shenzhen?) Still, Shanghai along already count 40% of total Canton GDP (2trn of SH vs. 5.3trn in Caton). I was trying to argue that lots of bad news are coming from Canton province which is not the whole picture. I lived in Shanghai for 3 yrs and Beijing for a year and half for work. Frankly don't see much issue with the fuel out there but rather more news from lower tier cities where the business structure gets quite complicated if you know what I mean.

Back to original topic, then counter argument would be if Sinopec adopts the same standard for HK, I don't see low quality fuel issue you mentioned earlier.
Actually u won't find anything bad (or seemingly bad) regarding fuel in GD or Shanghai or Beijing, but the fact of the matter is the Sulphur content is much higher than EU standard (due to the lower quality crude oil used). That's why some cars don't have direct injection in their PRC spec models or have one of the lean burn modes deleted due to this high Sulphur content. Give u an example, the BMW M60 V8, which is notoriously sensitive to Sulphur in petrol, suffered big engine problems on cars with HK/PRC plates whereas no such problems were found on HK-only cars.

The fuel quality issues I mentioned earlier only applies if Sinopec or PetroChina dominates the whole market instead of the Western guys. U must remember the LPG taxi stalling fiasco which happened earlier...........
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      02-21-2012, 06:45 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclariel View Post
This is bad man! I just feel unsecured once your fuel industry/market is dominated by foreign brands.

Well, I guess HK does not need to worry about this given its social-political stance.
No, I don't worry, cos petrol does not have such strategic value in HK when compared with, say, telecommunications. Besides, HK is an open economy & there are no laws stipulating ownership in most industries (save perhaps the media).
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      02-21-2012, 07:25 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Actually u won't find anything bad (or seemingly bad) regarding fuel in GD or Shanghai or Beijing, but the fact of the matter is the Sulphur content is much higher than EU standard (due to the lower quality crude oil used). That's why some cars don't have direct injection in their PRC spec models or have one of the lean burn modes deleted due to this high Sulphur content. Give u an example, the BMW M60 V8, which is notoriously sensitive to Sulphur in petrol, suffered big engine problems on cars with HK/PRC plates whereas no such problems were found on HK-only cars.

The fuel quality issues I mentioned earlier only applies if Sinopec or PetroChina dominates the whole market instead of the Western guys. U must remember the LPG taxi stalling fiasco which happened earlier...........
Because of cost issue?
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      02-21-2012, 10:59 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Being long living is no longer good enough. Honda's problem in HK started since the late 90's & Mazda has gone quiet for a few yrs. Mazda will have change of distributorship in a few mths time.
I don't disagree. But my point was that the Japanese non-premium brands were able to establish well in HK historically, so there was little reason why the American brands could'nt do the same, except for a lack of market interest. Or perhaps an admission that the US vehicles just aren't competitive internationally until quite recently.
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      02-22-2012, 12:24 AM   #76
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I don't disagree. But my point was that the Japanese non-premium brands were able to establish well in HK historically, so there was little reason why the American brands could'nt do the same, except for a lack of market interest. Or perhaps an admission that the US vehicles just aren't competitive internationally until quite recently.
There are several reasons:

1.) lack of suitable products during the growth phase of the HK market. just look at wht GM offered during the 70's/80's/90's.

2.) lack of rhd products. together with point 1.), that's the reason behind Ford selling UK/German cars in hk.

3.) market positioning & pricing. jap brands are very clear, mass market products that are cheaper than the equivalent Ford/VW/Opel/Fiat etc.

4.) quality & reliability. can they match the japanese??

5.) marketing clout. Crown Motors handled Toyota since 1966 in HK, & their parent Inchcape is the largest car distributor in the world (as well as for Toyota themselves).

u've already answered the question, GM/Ford/Chrysler/AMC Jeep etc. were concentrating wholly on their domestic market (it was enough to feed them) & became complacent due to their dominance. their woes extend up to a few yrs ago when they were forced to change.
if u talk abt competitiveness of US cars then they are uncompetitive since the muscle car era, & their new found competitiveness are in a very large part due to engineering talent from their European & Asian arms.
for the HK market, many brands (inlcuding US brands) have come & gone, those that are standing today were here in the 60's & 70's.
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