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      02-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Q4P View Post
Are you really comparing a car that weighs 500 lbs less in terms of performance? LOL The knowledge on this forum amazes me at times.

As far as 0-60 times are concerned, different situations will get different results which is why 0-60 times are not a good way to judge performance. Any sort of incline change, tire change, traction issue, style of launching and temperature will all have to do with 0-60 times. Trap speeds at the end of the 1/4 mile are the only relevant ways in comparing 2 vehicles performance in that regard, the 335i is 5-6 MPH faster than a 328i (which is a huge difference).
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      02-28-2012, 01:50 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Q4P View Post
Are you really comparing a car that weighs 500 lbs less in terms of performance? LOL The knowledge on this forum amazes me at times.

As far as 0-60 times are concerned, different situations will get different results which is why 0-60 times are not a good way to judge performance. Any sort of incline change, tire change, traction issue, style of launching and temperature will all have to do with 0-60 times. Trap speeds at the end of the 1/4 mile are the only relevant ways in comparing 2 vehicles performance in that regard, the 335i is 5-6 MPH faster than a 328i (which is a huge difference).
Sorry for being ignorant , sir. I won't do that again, I promise you.

F30 335iAT 0-200kmh :20.4s
F10 535iAT 0-200kmh: 21,8s

That's less difference than the 328i vs 335i.

Think about it!

Last edited by Robin_NL; 02-28-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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      02-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
Exact same thing happened with the E90. Car mags got about 1/2 second less than the BMW published number.

I noticed in the video he is torque braking the auto trans to about 2k RPM at launch. I wonder if BMW is testing without doing that?
What is torque braking?
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      02-28-2012, 02:22 PM   #114
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What is torque braking?
Holding your left foot on the brake to keep the car stopped while pressing the accelerator with the right foot to increase RPM, then releasing the brake. In this case they revved to 2,000 RPM to get up in the torque band at launch, then released the brakes.
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      02-28-2012, 02:34 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
Holding your left foot on the brake to keep the car stopped while pressing the accelerator with the right foot to increase RPM, then releasing the brake. In this case they revved to 2,000 RPM to get up in the torque band at launch, then released the brakes.
Got it, so in effect when you release the car the engine is spinning at higher RPMs and thus great torque to the wheels at start?
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      02-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by saamfou View Post
Got it, so in effect when you release the car the engine is spinning at higher RPMs and thus great torque to the wheels at start?
Precisely. Many modern automatic and DSG cars don't allow this though, so comparing like for like isn't always possible.
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      02-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by saamfou View Post
Got it, so in effect when you release the car the engine is spinning at higher RPMs and thus great torque to the wheels at start?
Yes, need too have the turbo spooled up to be in the sweet spot for torque.
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      02-28-2012, 02:44 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
Sorry for being ignorant , sir. I won't do that again, I promise you.

F30 335iAT 0-200kmh :20.4s
F10 535iAT 0-200kmh: 21,8s

That's less difference than the 328i vs 335i.

Think about it!
Right but there is still a 500 LB weight difference between a 335i and a 535i which is massive. The cars have identical engines so the weight differential is made up more so than when comparing a 335i to a 328i which is down on 40 HP. Anyway you look at it, with that much of a weight difference between a 3 and a 5, the responsiveness / acceleration of the vehicles will not be even close nor could it be. Try that again by doing 100-200 KM (where launching is not a concern) and I promise the results will be even further apart.
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      02-28-2012, 03:43 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Sumithb13 View Post
Did you not watch the video? He launched it from a dead stop.
They always lauch from a dead stop. The question is when does the clock start? If they measure with rollout, it doesn't start until the car has moved one foot, which seems to generally subtract 0.2-0.4sec from the 0-60 compared to staring it from when the car first moves.
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      02-28-2012, 03:50 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Can't speak for all car magazines but here are Car and Driver's test procedures:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-c-d-test-cars

They do not roll the car. 0-60 is from a dead stop. Same with Inside Line for 0-60 times:

http://www.insideline.com/features/h...nd-trucks.html

Road & Track does a 1 foot roll but they subtract the time for that 1'. Not sure about Motor Trend.
Here's the response (from Michael Austin - C&D staff) to a post on the C&D forum when I asked the editors whether or not they measure acceleration times with rollout.

"Hi! We haven't changed our methodology, and we still use rollout. Currently (and going a long way back) we use 0.3 miles per hour to approximate the 1-foot rollout. The rollout time is typically around 0.2 to 0.3 second.

We've always had a lively discussion here in the office about publishing rollout times in the performance results. Do you think that would be a good idea, or just extra information that might confuse too many readers?"

I'm pretty sure MT does the same, but can't currently find a document that confirms that.
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      02-28-2012, 04:35 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KR335 View Post
They always lauch from a dead stop. The question is when does the clock start? If they measure with rollout, it doesn't start until the car has moved one foot, which seems to generally subtract 0.2-0.4sec from the 0-60 compared to staring it from when the car first moves.
Actually wht sort of timing equipment do they use?
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      02-28-2012, 08:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
0-60 tests are designed to get the best results not the most repeatable results or the results you and I would get. They find the optimal revs that won't spin the tires and with an AT brake torque to that point and dump the brake and mash the throttle at the same time. With a MT they find the right revs, dump the clutch and mash the throttle. They also often correct for humidity and elevation.

We spend a lot of time here gnashing our teeth over 0-60 times but what's relevant for most of us in the real world is the feel we get in the seat of our pants. Nothing more.
I agree, there's more to a car than 0-60. That said, I'm a consumer who likes to be informed accurately and I think we can all agree with that can't we? Look, to me, and if you take a moment to think about it, to most people, 0-60 means you take your foot off the brakes and press the gas.

All this stuff with roll out, or torque breaking is great, I suppose, but they should also just include a normal 0-60. Its really not asking for much.
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      02-28-2012, 10:17 PM   #123
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Actually wht sort of timing equipment do they use?
I believe most use VBOX equipment. At least C&D does according to the link posted in one of the earlier posts.
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      02-29-2012, 01:57 AM   #124
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The 2012 335i does not do 0-60 4.7s

First the reviewer did torque braking so he's kinda cheating the 0-60 and creating some hooplah and reality is slower as recorded by C/D. A 335is can consistently do 0-60 in 4.5-4.7 (Road and Track 4.5). According to C&D (4.6 seconds).

Comparing real C/D results between the 335is coupe and 2012 335i sedan reveals the real story. Look at each track time below:

335is Coupe
Power (SAE net): 320 bhp @ 5900 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 370 lb-ft @ 1500 rpm

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec
Street start, 560 mph: 5.0 sec
Standing -mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph

Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

2012 335i

Power: 300 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque: 300 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.0 sec
Street Start, 560 mph: 5.9 sec
Standing -mile: 13.8 sec @ 103 mph


Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review


Also just review the C/D test notes: 2012 335i 0-60 5.3 and look at the outside cold temp which would helps the 0-60 time. The 335is for example was done at near 70-80 degree temps.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...april-2012.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2011-bmw-335is.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
2012 BMW 335i: Still the Benchmark?

0-60mph - 4.7 sec
1/4 mile - 13.3 sec @ 103.9 mph
60-0 - 109 ft
Lateral accel: .90g
This new one actually accelerates at the same pace as the 320-horse, 332 lb-ft 335is -- the one with two turbos and a fast-shifting twin-clutch transmission. Our mere automatic 2012 335i, down a turbo and supposedly 20 horsepower and 32 lb-ft, reached 60 mph in 4.7 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.3 sec at 103.9 mph. That's right on pace with a Camaro SS, assuming it's driven well.
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      02-29-2012, 02:21 AM   #125
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KevinJ. Thanx for the info, and whatever the outside temperature and other conditions:
German carmag AMS tested an F30 335i sportline 0-62 in 5.1 seconds.

My F30 335i is just as fast as my ex my 2007 N54 335i but even has a better sound/brakes and chassis to it.

Whatever the outcome and until the M3 arrives, or if there's an upgrade of the N55 etc., in this segment the F30 335i sportline is the real sports sedan as BMW advertised.
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      02-29-2012, 02:42 AM   #126
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Curious to know...

from your point of view: who would be the closest competitor to the F30 335i ?

Now that you are one happy owner of one,
which car do you consider to be most likely to tail the F30, and for which you should keep an eye in the mirror?
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      02-29-2012, 03:45 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
Curious to know...

from your point of view: who would be the closest competitor to the F30 335i ?

Now that you are one happy owner of one,
which car do you consider to be most likely to tail the F30, and for which you should keep an eye in the mirror?


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      02-29-2012, 03:58 AM   #128
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JxGRBQDzsic/S_yLHceCbxI/AAAAAAAABFI/oGJle1k7mnQ/s1600/Police+Cars+BMW.jpg

Seeing you live so close to the border, I think in your case it will be more likely these guys:




Btw, I love this one here:
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      02-29-2012, 07:45 AM   #129
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lol @ fake exhaust voice-over @ 1:12.

So just to re-cap, what the f30 328i claims to do well, when pushed to the limit and red-lined in sport mode, busting some veins, the f30 335i does better in it's bath robe without breaking a sweat. Not bad.

The f30 335i has some great potential.
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      02-29-2012, 08:47 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KR335 View Post
Here's the response (from Michael Austin - C&D staff) to a post on the C&D forum when I asked the editors whether or not they measure acceleration times with rollout.

"Hi! We haven't changed our methodology, and we still use rollout. Currently (and going a long way back) we use 0.3 miles per hour to approximate the 1-foot rollout. The rollout time is typically around 0.2 to 0.3 second.

We've always had a lively discussion here in the office about publishing rollout times in the performance results. Do you think that would be a good idea, or just extra information that might confuse too many readers?"

I'm pretty sure MT does the same, but can't currently find a document that confirms that.
Interesting. The link I posted did not say they use roll out. And it would be good to know if this is for 0-60 times of 1/4 mile or both. It seems some magazines use rollout for 1/4 mile and not 0-60.

Can you please link to the forum discussion? It sounds like a good read.
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      02-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #131
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post


Good one! and realistically too!


Quote:
Originally Posted by shicobico View Post
lol @ fake exhaust voice-over @ 1:12.

So just to re-cap, what the f30 328i claims to do well, when pushed to the limit and red-lined in sport mode, busting some veins, the f30 335i does better in it's bath robe without breaking a sweat. Not bad.

The f30 335i has some great potential.
In typical Top Gear expression
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      02-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmwinds View Post
wait, so the 5.4s published by bmw is inaccurate?

I really thought it didn't make sense that a car 80 lbs lighter with the same engine would be slower than previous gen.
please don't take this personally- perhaps you're new to BMW and don't know but for everyone else who's been posting the same question over and over on numerous threads- BMW's numbers are typically .4-.8 seconds pessimistic in the 0-60 time category.

on another note- love the upholder test- if he did that in an e9x he'd be covered in water
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