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      04-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #23
Carnook
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I think a Camry V6 would have meet your priorities of space, interior, fuel economy, styling, quickness, and cruising ability and save your self about $25000.
Eeewwwwww...
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      04-11-2012, 10:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Show some class, you are driving a BMW after all
It's his personal opinion. Live with it. Just because you got a 2011 328xi does not mean people have to love what you have. Max PL prefers the F30, so what?

I personally prefer the F30 at this point for lots of reasons.
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      04-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I think a Camry V6 would have meet your priorities of space, interior, fuel economy, styling, quickness, and cruising ability and save your self about $25000.
What a hater you are sir. Stop being in denial. *sigh*

I would never buy a 2011 328xi when a 2012 model is faster and much more fuel efficient and can go around the track much faster. It's a win win (personal opinion)
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      04-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #26
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My wife and I had the opposite test drive experience as the OP. We went to the BMW with the intent of test driving the 2011 328xi, 2012 328i, 528xi and 535xi. We drove the E90 first, the steering was world class, the I6 engine is smooth and quiet and we like the front end better in the E90 than the F30. Next up is the F30, while the salesman was pulling up the car, we can hear the engine ticking from about 50 yards away, which was a big turn off. Get into the car and the seats are as hard as a wood bench, very uncomfortable. During the test drive, we notice the steering is not nearly as communitive as the E90's even when we put the F30 into sport mode. The 4 banger was very noisy and had a lot vibration under hard accelaration. This thing is suppose to do 0-60 in about 6 sec. Frankly, I didnt notice it being that much quicker than the F90. Overall, the F30's test drive was a big disappointment, we had such high hope from teh reviews.
you have a 2011 328xi. Understandable
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      04-11-2012, 12:46 PM   #27
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Calmwinds, It sounds like I have touch a nerve, sorry if I offended you in anyway, it was not my intention. I am just trying to have a healthy debate here, lets try to stay civil here.
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      04-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #28
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I drove a 335D (E90) and a 335i (F30 sport) back to back. I prefer the F30 (despite my love for the oil burner).

everything was better in the F30...everything.
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      04-11-2012, 01:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Calmwinds View Post
Max PL prefers the F30, so what?
It's the way he said it. I believe he could have gotten the same point across without using the words "mistake" and "stupid" and implicitly insulting 2011 owners the world over.
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      04-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #30
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It's the way he said it. I believe he could have gotten the same point across without using the words "mistake" and "stupid" and implicitly insulting 2011 owners the world over.
I don’t think anyone is stupid for buying a E90 with all the incentives out there right now. We just picked up a loaded 328xi, no SP, for mid $30K, 0.9% financing and 1st two payment free. The other option would have been to wait for a 2013 F30 328xi with sport line which cost close to $50K with no discount. We try to weight the pro and the cons between both cars. Some of the negatives with the F30 were obviously the wait as well as the fact that it’s a 1st year design BMW, we all know how that usually goes. The noisy engine and the steering feel was a turn off, the seats are way too stiff and the pop up screen that doesn’t retract really bothers me quite a bit. The pros are better fuel economy, which is pretty low on my priority list when I buy cars like BMW, the engine is quicker, but not much quicker, the trade off is the 4 banger is not as smooth or as linear as the I6. There just seems to be way more cons against the F30 than pros, at least for us anyways.

Last edited by The X Men; 04-11-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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      04-11-2012, 11:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I think a Camry V6 would have meet your priorities of space, interior, fuel economy, styling, quickness, and cruising ability and save your self about $25000.
Oh, thanks! I'm just figuring these things out, and it's good to have someone like you around to make uninformed, unsolicited, and inane random comments befitting a twelve year old.
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      04-12-2012, 01:54 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
My wife and I had the opposite test drive experience as the OP. We went to the BMW with the intent of test driving the 2011 328xi, 2012 328i, 528xi and 535xi. We drove the E90 first, the steering was world class, the I6 engine is smooth and quiet and we like the front end better in the E90 than the F30. Next up is the F30, while the salesman was pulling up the car, we can hear the engine ticking from about 50 yards away, which was a big turn off. Get into the car and the seats are as hard as a wood bench, very uncomfortable. During the test drive, we notice the steering is not nearly as communitive as the E90's even when we put the F30 into sport mode. The 4 banger was very noisy and had a lot vibration under hard accelaration. This thing is suppose to do 0-60 in about 6 sec. Frankly, I didnt notice it being that much quicker than the F90. Overall, the F30's test drive was a big disappointment, we had such high hope from teh reviews.
Heavy sigh!
This again. I guess the F30 328i is truly so good that people have to struggle to rationalize buying something else. Look, we can argue all day about steering feel. This is entirely subjective and both the professional and amateur reviewers have been all over the place on this one. Personally I felt that although the steering effort on the F30 was much lower than the E90, the steering feel and precision was just as good. We can also argue all day about engine sound quality. I have to grant the haters that the engine in the E90 328i sounds much better than the F30 328i. But as to the F30 328i being noisy (or noisier than the E90) that is simply not true and in saying so you just betray your lack of objectivity. You forget that sound levels can be measured objectively. As evidence I offer the results of two comparison tests by Car and Driver involving the BMW 328i. The first test was conducted in May 2009 on the E90 328i. The sound levels measured at idle/wide open throttle/70mph cruise were: 42/75/67 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-bmw-328i.pdf. The second test was conducted in March of 2012 on the F30 328i and the equivalent sounds levels are: 40/71/66 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-sheet.pdf. On the surface you might say that this is a negligible difference, but keep in mind that decibels are a logorithmic scale. So an increase of 3 decibels corresponds to about double the amount of noise. If you examine the data more closely you will also see that the difference is most likely attributable to engine noise. At 70 MPH cruise with light throttle, the noise that you hear in the cabin will be dominated by wind and road noise. Notice that the difference between the F30 and E90 is only 1 decibel here. But at wide open throttle, engine noise will play a larger factor. Notice that in this case the E90 is 4 decibels louder, more than twice as loud. More importantly, at 75 decibels the E90 can hardly be considered a quiet car. At 71 decibels the F30 is actually in rare company. For comparison, the equivalent numbers for a Mercedes S550 are: 42/74/69. For a Lexus LS460 (generally considered to be the quietest car around) the numbers are: 39/68/65. The F30 BMW is quieter than the big Benz all around and within 1 decibel of the lexus at both idle and cruise. I had to jump in here because on my own test of the F30 I was particulary impressed by the quietness of the car and I had a point of comparison because we drove to the dealer's remote lot in an E90, so I stepped out of one and right into the other and there was no comparison. The F30 is one quiet car. Now you may not want this. You may want to hear the sound of the engine, the E90 will certainly give you that! But to say that the F30 is noisy (on the inside) is simply untrue and not supported by any of the facts.
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      04-12-2012, 04:51 AM   #33
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Have the new F30 as a service loaner, all I can say is WOW! If i were looking to relplace my E90 this would be it. But, too expensive right now. I'll wait for a discounted leftover at year end. Mine was an '09 discounted 15k....I'll wait.
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      04-12-2012, 06:00 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by computernerd View Post
Heavy sigh!
This again. I guess the F30 328i is truly so good that people have to struggle to rationalize buying something else. Look, we can argue all day about steering feel. This is entirely subjective and both the professional and amateur reviewers have been all over the place on this one. Personally I felt that although the steering effort on the F30 was much lower than the E90, the steering feel and precision was just as good. We can also argue all day about engine sound quality. I have to grant the haters that the engine in the E90 328i sounds much better than the F30 328i. But as to the F30 328i being noisy (or noisier than the E90) that is simply not true and in saying so you just betray your lack of objectivity. You forget that sound levels can be measured objectively. As evidence I offer the results of two comparison tests by Car and Driver involving the BMW 328i. The first test was conducted in May 2009 on the E90 328i. The sound levels measured at idle/wide open throttle/70mph cruise were: 42/75/67 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-bmw-328i.pdf. The second test was conducted in March of 2012 on the F30 328i and the equivalent sounds levels are: 40/71/66 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-sheet.pdf. On the surface you might say that this is a negligible difference, but keep in mind that decibels are a logorithmic scale. So an increase of 3 decibels corresponds to about double the amount of noise. If you examine the data more closely you will also see that the difference is most likely attributable to engine noise. At 70 MPH cruise with light throttle, the noise that you hear in the cabin will be dominated by wind and road noise. Notice that the difference between the F30 and E90 is only 1 decibel here. But at wide open throttle, engine noise will play a larger factor. Notice that in this case the E90 is 4 decibels louder, more than twice as loud. More importantly, at 75 decibels the E90 can hardly be considered a quiet car. At 71 decibels the F30 is actually in rare company. For comparison, the equivalent numbers for a Mercedes S550 are: 42/74/69. For a Lexus LS460 (generally considered to be the quietest car around) the numbers are: 39/68/65. The F30 BMW is quieter than the big Benz all around and within 1 decibel of the lexus at both idle and cruise. I had to jump in here because on my own test of the F30 I was particulary impressed by the quietness of the car and I had a point of comparison because we drove to the dealer's remote lot in an E90, so I stepped out of one and right into the other and there was no comparison. The F30 is one quiet car. Now you may not want this. You may want to hear the sound of the engine, the E90 will certainly give you that! But to say that the F30 is noisy (on the inside) is simply untrue and not supported by any of the facts.
This....Nuff said.
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      04-12-2012, 07:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computernerd View Post
Heavy sigh!
This again. I guess the F30 328i is truly so good that people have to struggle to rationalize buying something else. Look, we can argue all day about steering feel. This is entirely subjective and both the professional and amateur reviewers have been all over the place on this one. Personally I felt that although the steering effort on the F30 was much lower than the E90, the steering feel and precision was just as good. We can also argue all day about engine sound quality. I have to grant the haters that the engine in the E90 328i sounds much better than the F30 328i. But as to the F30 328i being noisy (or noisier than the E90) that is simply not true and in saying so you just betray your lack of objectivity. You forget that sound levels can be measured objectively. As evidence I offer the results of two comparison tests by Car and Driver involving the BMW 328i. The first test was conducted in May 2009 on the E90 328i. The sound levels measured at idle/wide open throttle/70mph cruise were: 42/75/67 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-bmw-328i.pdf. The second test was conducted in March of 2012 on the F30 328i and the equivalent sounds levels are: 40/71/66 http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-sheet.pdf. On the surface you might say that this is a negligible difference, but keep in mind that decibels are a logorithmic scale. So an increase of 3 decibels corresponds to about double the amount of noise. If you examine the data more closely you will also see that the difference is most likely attributable to engine noise. At 70 MPH cruise with light throttle, the noise that you hear in the cabin will be dominated by wind and road noise. Notice that the difference between the F30 and E90 is only 1 decibel here. But at wide open throttle, engine noise will play a larger factor. Notice that in this case the E90 is 4 decibels louder, more than twice as loud. More importantly, at 75 decibels the E90 can hardly be considered a quiet car. At 71 decibels the F30 is actually in rare company. For comparison, the equivalent numbers for a Mercedes S550 are: 42/74/69. For a Lexus LS460 (generally considered to be the quietest car around) the numbers are: 39/68/65. The F30 BMW is quieter than the big Benz all around and within 1 decibel of the lexus at both idle and cruise. I had to jump in here because on my own test of the F30 I was particulary impressed by the quietness of the car and I had a point of comparison because we drove to the dealer's remote lot in an E90, so I stepped out of one and right into the other and there was no comparison. The F30 is one quiet car. Now you may not want this. You may want to hear the sound of the engine, the E90 will certainly give you that! But to say that the F30 is noisy (on the inside) is simply untrue and not supported by any of the facts.
I do agree with this totally, I myself having owned quite a few BMWs was quite surprised with the quiet ride. The engine sound did get my attention at idle but then went home and compared it to the other cars I'd owned and it sounds pretty similar.

Having said that I'm a HUGE fan of getting some savings.. but in the case of the f30 i'm swapping out an accord euro which is 3 months old for it probably even sell the f10 which is 2 years old coz i think they really did a good job with the design this tiime around.
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      04-12-2012, 09:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by computernerd View Post
At 71 decibels the F30 is actually in rare company. For comparison, the equivalent numbers for a Mercedes S550 are: 42/74/69. For a Lexus LS460 (generally considered to be the quietest car around) the numbers are: 39/68/65. The F30 BMW is quieter than the big Benz all around and within 1 decibel of the lexus at both idle and cruise. .
I am guessing those db level are measure in the interior of the car, also, they did not take into account of the loud direct injector noise.
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      04-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ChaosBroker View Post
Oh, thanks! I'm just figuring these things out, and it's good to have someone like you around to make uninformed, unsolicited, and inane random comments befitting a twelve year old.
If my comments are insane, I invite you to come up with a rebuttal instead of a personal attack.
I reply to a poster that states his top priority in a car was comfort, speed, light steering and size. Can you tell me which part of the Camry V6 does not fit into those catagories?
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      04-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #38
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Relax guys, let's not get upset over each other's preferences and opinions, and let's also not insult or provoke each other for having preferences and opinions different from our own.

I think we each place different weight on different aspects of why we love BMWs so much. It is legitimate and helpful, when someone wants to know, to highlight those aspects which matter to us, and to make strong arguments in favor of them. But the flip side of that is respecting other people's choices to emphasize a different aspect that's important to them, and respecting them even when they explain (maybe also with a strong emphasis) when they don't agree that a particular aspect is important. Less experienced/new drivers to the brand can then understand what aspects that they may not be aware of, that they can start paying attention to.

So, for example, I've learnt that the creamy/silky-smooth engine sound of the IL6 is a big attraction to many drivers. It's wholly irrelevant to me, but at least I know that it's something that provokes strong feelings in other drivers. Handling, on the other hand, is important to me, and to many others. Listening to others helps us understand more. Denigrating others whose opinions aren't in line with yours is not helpful to these discussions.

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      04-12-2012, 10:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If my comments are insane, I invite you to come up with a rebuttal instead of a personal attack.
I reply to a poster that states his top priority in a car was comfort, speed, light steering and size. Can you tell me which part of the Camry V6 does not fit into those catagories?
The word, is inane. I don't usually feed trolls, nor correct innocent spelling mistakes - but your limited comprehension of simple English words speaks as much to the point as any retort.

I simply said that i preferred the F30 over the E90 as a DD because it suited the task better for me. Please indicate where I was comparing any other make, other than BMWs. The fact that you brought up a Toyota, would lead a thinking person to conclude that it was an attempt to gain some cred for yourself by disparaging my impressions, by the unsolicited posting of my words out of context. Reading a couple of your posts - impressing other people seems to be important to you. Maybe that's why you bought your e90, maybe not. Don't be so butthurt that others prefer the new model for what it offers, and you will look less foolish.


My post in it's entirety:
Quote:
I did not drive them back to back, but I certainly share the same impressions as the OP. While I enjoy a drive in an e90 now and again, I couldn't deal with it as a DD. The f30, while less engaging in two specific senses, is much more satisfying in others. I'll give up the steering and sound/smoothness of the e90, for the space, interior, fuel economy, styling, quickness, and cruising ability of the f30. .
Comparing 2 BMWs only.
OP sorry for the thread cr@pping - hope you at least get a chuckle.
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      04-12-2012, 11:57 PM   #40
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No, no! This is good stuff. Keep going, please.
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      04-13-2012, 02:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I am guessing those db level are measure in the interior of the car, also, they did not take into account of the loud direct injector noise.
What chu talkin bout Willis??? You said: "The 4 banger was very noisy and had a lot vibration under hard accelaration". I'm assuming you were inside the car hearing all this noise while it was accelerating. Are you saying you were riding T.J. Hooker style on the hood of the car while it was accelerating like this . If so then you are one bad dude X Men!

And of course Car and Driver's sound measurements include the sounds of the injectors. They don't mention having a band pass filter on their microphones that filter out just those sounds. The sound measurements include everything: engine noise, wind noise, road noise, ambient sound from outside the car and yes... the injectors.
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