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      08-14-2012, 12:22 PM   #45
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Just try and avoid hitting the corner. For now.


Just because our cars aren't the safest, doesn't mean we're automatically dead. Find the strong spots and use those to stay alive - if/when the universe hates you.
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      08-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by sali View Post
This is a great test as I often read in newspapers that someone died in car crash by hitting a pole or tree.

Disappointed about the results as I expected BMW to be better than Acura. Also, A4 and MB C class are one generation behind BMW.
Both A4 and C class replacements are far along in development, so i doubt they would do much if any better than the F30. But the current A4, and C did the worst along with the IS/ES.
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      08-14-2012, 12:51 PM   #47
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Makes one wonder whether a design for pedestrian safety came at the trade-off of occupant safety.


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..the hood design, if I remember correctly, is for pedestrian impact, not slight offset crash ~
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      08-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #48
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It's really strange that bmw, benz or lexus stopped right "in the wall", while for example volvo somehow flew it by with the front wheel gone aside. And that's cuz of their super safety design or that yellow peace of metal which was strengthened? emm bullshit. concurrence of circumstances, nothing more
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      08-14-2012, 01:02 PM   #49
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I think that this is an excellent test. Accidents almost never happen like the IIHS or Euro NCAP tests the cars. This is actually a somewhat realistic test.

One way to improve crash testing in general would be to show how shifts in weight affect the crash testing.

Another way they could test the cars is test would start them at 60 mph, then at a certain distance hit the brakes as hard as possible (like in a typical accident avoidance scenarios) and not restrict the speed that it hits the barrier. For instance, if my car can slow down from 60 faster and hit the object at 20, it will cause less damage and less injuries than if if another persons car hits the object at 40 because they couldnt slow down fast enough.
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      08-14-2012, 01:06 PM   #50
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A few things to consider:

-BMW is RWD and does not have the transmission in the engine compartment nor does it have the half shafts to drive the wheels and the added mass in those areas. With that said- BMW does an amazing job engineering safety to counter that- MB not so much.

-The wheel getting stuck there is what caused the intrusion- I'd bet if you repeated the test the wheel may end up somewhere else and there would be no intrusion.

-This test is a WORSE case scenario- there is NO brake application meaning that there is no front end squat or dive. The brake dive would take weight from the rear (BMW's are close to 50/50) and move it off the rear axel lightening it and helping the rear come around relieving some of the blow.

-BMW tests in real world scenarios to make their cars some of the safest on the road- a few months ago we saw what happens to an M5 at nearly 185 mph involved in a crash- the occupants survived. There is a facility similar to Volvos that tests what would happen in the real world and they design to that rather than any "test". The Lincoln is an example of being designed to a test- that is a car you would not want to be in in such a crash ever.
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      08-14-2012, 01:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_T View Post
Just try and avoid hitting the corner. For now.


Just because our cars aren't the safest, doesn't mean we're automatically dead. Find the strong spots and use those to stay alive - if/when the universe hates you.
Yeah! Don't try to avoid the pole altogether. Aim straight for the sucker!
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      08-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #52
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This is front page news on CNN Money....
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      08-14-2012, 01:19 PM   #53
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This is front page news on CNN Money....
Also front page news on Bimmerpost homepage here.
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      08-14-2012, 01:29 PM   #54
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I think automakers should just stop trying to do the minimal and go all out. The car may look ugly, but at least you'll have lower insurance rates and be able to walk away with minor injuries.
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      08-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerep1 View Post
i really do not see how this accident is relevant to real world conditions
If anything, the traditional crash tests didn't simulate real world conditions well enough. Collisions don't always strike on center of the front, rear, or side of the vehicle.

The object you collide with may not always be stationary like this test, but there are loads of scenarios that could result in a similar impact to this test. A few examples:

- Losing control of the car in the snow and careening off the road towards a stationary object like a tree or a building.
- Swerving to avoid an object in the road like an animal or another car.
- Turning through an intersection and getting hit by a car running the red light.
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      08-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #56
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The question here is - given that the S60 is a really nice car in every measurable way and most unmeasurable ways, given that it's somewhat cheaper than an F30, given that the G37 is a really old and outdated design, and given the results of this test...

...what would be the logical argument for buying any car on this list other than the S60?

Just sayin'.
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      08-14-2012, 02:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAMidge
The true disappointing thing is that although these tests are standard, they aren't real accurate representations of real-life crashes.

People don't just barrel into something at 40mph. They hit the brake. That totally changes the forces, angles and dynamics of how the occupants are positioned and moving.


If they want to hit the barrier at 40mph that's fine, but start at 60 and hit the brakes so that it's going 40 when it hits the barrier, then you can see that the occupant may already be leaning slightly forward and see if the dip in the front end plays a significant role in the forces on the vehicle.
QFT!

Slamming on the brakes completely alters a lot of positions and angles of not only the occupant but the body as well.

And to the guy thinking slamming on the brakes to get you down to 40 would have the same impact of coasting at 40..... Wow. Smh you must have been a physics major...

It seems that many more tests should be created for these crash tests.
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      08-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Bus
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
No. They used to focus on those things. But, then they found that a nice even collision is not anywhere near as catastrophic as one that is offset.

This is a huge blow to BMW. BMW focused on finding a way to give nearly all of the electronic gizmos available on the 7 and the 5 to the
3. Worse, BMW shaved away structural weight in the name of Eco pro and other nonsense.

Now, while it is true your little 4 banger beats the old model's 6, and it's true that the new model goes from 0 to 60 a tad faster, it is equally true that there was a hidden compromise and that was the safety of the BMW occupants.

All you 3 series owners that bought this car before the offset tests were actually performed have been duped! You probably never even asked about safety because BMW goes to great lengths to tout the 3 series as one of the safest cars on earth. But it is not and objective tests prove it is not even close to the safest car in its class.

Look at the intrusion in these tests. It is horrible!!! If I were owner of a 3 series I would be pissed! The fact that this is a new test does not impress me. It only goes to show that BMW makes cars to pass particular set of tests. BMW should worry about the real world.

Driving while texting just got a lot more lethal thanks to BMW.



Stop talking shit. If BMW is doing such a horrible job, what about Lexus, Audi or MB?
First, G-bus, I have been buying BMW's (only) since 1996. And, I haven't looked back. So, I don't care about other car companies.

Next, this new test can't be a surprise. I am sure it was announced far in advance to the car companies.

But, BMW made the decision to move forward with the F30 even though it knew or had good reason to know the F30 would be marginal.

BMW could have stopped the presses, delayed the marketing and redesign the f30 to make it safer.

Instead, BMW chose the corporate low road and decided your life was not worth the effort.

Of course BMW could quickly develop a finite element analysis model that would have clearly shown the f30 would not do well in this test. It is not necessary to crash a car to determine how a car will perform. It is a good test. But, there are other ways (such as finite element analysis) to show how the car will perform without having actually crash the car.

But, BMW said no. They chose profit over safety and even a black eye.

Shame on you BMW.
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      08-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAMidge
The true disappointing thing is that although these tests are standard, they aren't real accurate representations of real-life crashes.

People don't just barrel into something at 40mph. They hit the brake. That totally changes the forces, angles and dynamics of how the occupants are positioned and moving.


If they want to hit the barrier at 40mph that's fine, but start at 60 and hit the brakes so that it's going 40 when it hits the barrier, then you can see that the occupant may already be leaning slightly forward and see if the dip in the front end plays a significant role in the forces on the vehicle.
good points ^
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      08-14-2012, 03:10 PM   #60
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And compared to E9x series?
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      08-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #61
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I'm not sure braking to slow the car down would make the test any better, only more confusing. There are so many variables, and you really can't test them all for every single new car ever made. What if you get hit by an accelerating car? What if the road was wet and/or slippery? What if the driver simply panicked and couldn't think of a methodical way to avoid the impact in the heat of the moment? I think that's what this test is trying to show-the time when nothing but the car itself can save you. The worst that can happen. I'd rather have them test this out and use it as a guideline knowing that if it can handle this test, it can surely handle a less severe impact.
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      08-14-2012, 03:34 PM   #62
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Some of you guys are pretty unrealistic about the testing they should do. There are an infinite number of crash scenarios in the real world. Different angles, speeds, loading configuarations, etc. They can really only pick a few tests that most closely represent commonly seen crashes and replicate them car-to-car the best they can.

And they should have made the new frontal offset crash tougher. It was to the point where almost every car out there got a "Good" rating - the best possible. What was the point anymore?
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      08-14-2012, 03:38 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post

But, BMW made the decision to move forward with the F30 even though it knew or had good reason to know the F30 would be marginal.
How do u know? Any evidence?
Btw, wht's the point of moving forward if they really knew it's marginal? Just to beat the crash test by 6mths of sales?
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      08-14-2012, 03:40 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by CirrusSR22 View Post
Some of you guys are pretty unrealistic about the testing they should do. There are an infinite number of crash scenarios in the real world. Different angles, speeds, loading configuarations, etc. They can really only pick a few tests that most closely represent commonly seen crashes and replicate them car-to-car the best they can.
That's why manufacturers have teams of ppl that are on call 24/7 & they go on location whenever serious accidents happened involving one of their products.
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      08-14-2012, 03:57 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
First, G-bus, I have been buying BMW's (only) since 1996. And, I haven't looked back. So, I don't care about other car companies.

Next, this new test can't be a surprise. I am sure it was announced far in advance to the car companies.
You know what they say about assuming things...

The IIHS is a private institution, they don't have to tell anyone anything. I'm sure that BMW DIDN'T know such a test was up and coming during the design stages of the F30
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      08-14-2012, 03:58 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirrusSR22 View Post
Some of you guys are pretty unrealistic about the testing they should do. There are an infinite number of crash scenarios in the real world. Different angles, speeds, loading configuarations, etc. They can really only pick a few tests that most closely represent commonly seen crashes and replicate them car-to-car the best they can.
That's why manufacturers have teams of ppl that are on call 24/7 & they go on location whenever serious accidents happened involving one of their products.
Sure. Maybe for an airplane accident or an accident worthy of involving the ntsb.

But no one is sending a team of people to see why you wrapped your new F30 around a tree.

Ever hear of statistics? That's what they use. They don't send out teams of people to crash sites.
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