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      10-04-2012, 07:37 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
F30 for enthusiasts

Compared to a C class? you bet.
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      10-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #24
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I live in a hard-core bimmer region of the Chicagoland area. However, within the last year, the E90 and now the F30 have become a minority to the C-Class by a margin of 10-1. With that being said the F10 holds a 10-1 lead over the current E-Class.
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      10-04-2012, 09:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
C class sedan is outselling F30 in US like for like. that must be worrying.
I agree, the C class is gaining a lot of market share at the expense of the 3 series. Letís take a look at the market share between the 3 series vs. the C class, A4 and the Infinite G. In Sep 2007, BMW 3 series sold 97039 unit YTD, A4, 29469 YTD, Infiniti G, 47132 and the C class, 36184. The 3 series had a 46% US market share in Sep 2007. Lets compare that to todayís market share, BMW 3 series sold 68352 unit YTD in Sep 2012, A4, 41235 YTD, Infiniti G, 46034 and the C class, 57740. The current 3 series' US market share is down to 32%.
Look at the difference between the US Sep 2007 YTD and Sep 2012 YTD sales numbers, the C class went from 36184 units to 57740 and the 3 series went from 97039 units down to 68352 units. Thats a gain of +60% in sales for the C class comparing Sep 2007 YTD to Sep 2012 YTD and a lost of -30% in sales for the 3 series comparing Sep 2007 YTD to Sep 2012 YTD.
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      10-04-2012, 10:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I think it's a bit early to tell.

A year ago, the E90 was an end term, full roll out, meanwhile the F30 has been RWD for almost a year now, we are finally seeing X-drive trickle in. That leaves the E9x wagons, verts and coupes which people know are being replaced.
Going back to this because it's the real answer.

Of course, we really have no reason to care about sales short of BMW going bankrupt, which needless to say is kinda unlikely.
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      10-04-2012, 01:29 PM   #27
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too expensive. thats why.
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      10-04-2012, 02:11 PM   #28
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too expensive. thats why.
I just built one to match my car as close as possible and its roughly the same price. If I remove the service package which I am thinking most people do not add when building and forget that this is included with BMW the MB will work out a lot cheaper. A4 starts off cheaper but building an S4 to match my car was $5k more but I know with Audi its easier to get that number down.
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      10-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector Pilot
I live in a hard-core bimmer region of the Chicagoland area. However, within the last year, the E90 and now the F30 have become a minority to the C-Class by a margin of 10-1. With that being said the F10 holds a 10-1 lead over the current E-Class.
Too true.
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      10-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #30
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Have anyone considered that perharps there are less 3-series sold because there are less cars available for sale in US? All our 2012's are gone, and we have about 1 week supply in stock.
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      10-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #31
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Have anyone considered that perharps there are less 3-series sold because there are less cars available for sale in US? All our 2012's are gone, and we have about 1 week supply in stock.
Logical thinking is prohibited in these kind of threads.
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      10-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micosilver View Post
Have anyone considered that perharps there are less 3-series sold because there are less cars available for sale in US? All our 2012's are gone, and we have about 1 week supply in stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Logical thinking is prohibited in these kind of threads.
Really.

I like the C Class on the grassy knoll theory myself. It's a transition, people. That's all it is.

If we're looking for commonalities, during both the E90 and F30 transitions, in the first 9-12 months the 3 Series had three consecutive quarters of sales drop with two of them in double digits, the Coupe/Vert/Wagon nosediving badly in anticipation of a new bodystyle.

The alarms can sound with the March 2013 quarterly report as that will show the complete first year of F30 sales and the first six months of XDrive models.

Any non-niche-enthusiast whose driven an F30 knows its a remarkable car, a quantum leap ahead of the E90, a big distance ahead of the C, certainly the best 3 Series ever. Since that group represents 95% of the buyers in that segment, there is no issue here.

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      10-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post


LOL.

You realize that 95% of all 3 Series sold do not have manual transmissions, do not have sport suspensions, do not have a sport package of any sort?

You realize that the average BMW owner is a 47 year old female on a 36 month lease in a car that she took off the lot to look stylish on her way to the nail salon?

"BMW doesn't count just on enthusiasts for their sales though."

LOL. Ya think? This forum is entertaining and all, but please, grab a lawn chair and sit at a busy intersection, profile the 3 Series drivers, tell us what you see.

BJ
What is the point of your response? What are you trying to prove?

I already said that BMW doesn't count on enthusiasts for their sales. Are you proving my point or disapproving my point?

I'll tell ya what I see in my area.....a lot of 40-50-60 years old males and females who drive 3-series (non-Sports models) on 36 month leases off the lot. Most BMWs, specifically E90s and F30s, driven in my area are regular X-drive models. However, I do acknowledge the fact that there are also enthusiasts driving. But there aren't enough of them for BMW to have the sales numbers they have and need.

BTW, I've seen only 3 F30s driven so far on the roads in my area - 2 base models and one Luxury line, all of them 328s. A lot of E90s though.
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      10-05-2012, 09:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micosilver View Post
Have anyone considered that perharps there are less 3-series sold because there are less cars available for sale in US? All our 2012's are gone, and we have about 1 week supply in stock.
According to autotrader, there are 1126 new 3 series within a 200 radius of San Francisco.
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      10-05-2012, 02:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
According to autotrader, there are 1126 new 3 series within a 200 radius of San Francisco.
I used edmunds:



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      10-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post


LOL.

You realize that 95% of all 3 Series sold do not have manual transmissions, do not have sport suspensions, do not have a sport package of any sort?

You realize that the average BMW owner is a 47 year old female on a 36 month lease in a car that she took off the lot to look stylish on her way to the nail salon?

"BMW doesn't count just on enthusiasts for their sales though."

LOL. Ya think? This forum is entertaining and all, but please, grab a lawn chair and sit at a busy intersection, profile the 3 Series drivers, tell us what you see.

BJ
I wasn't expecting an early morning fap, but thanks to you "BJ", one crept up on me!
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      10-05-2012, 07:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Sherweeeny View Post
I wasn't expecting an early morning fap, but thanks to you "BJ", one crept up on me!
LOL.

Sexy.

BJ
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      10-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Logical thinking is prohibited in these kind of threads.
How true !!!!

As one who was involved in this business for many years, I would say to those naysayers of the F30, that it is way too early in the model cycle to correctly predict its ultimate sales over the course of its entire production run (6-7 years).

This is especially so in North America where until the last few weeks, there have been no Xdrives available, the 335s are in very short supply, and the wagons, coupes and convertibles are in limbo. There will also be additional future models added to the North American 3 Series line-up during the next year or two: a diesel sedan (either badged as 320d or 328d), perhaps the 3 Series GT and of course the M3.

Meanwhile, over in China, BMW sales increased in September by 59% (Mercedes up by 10%, Audi by 20%) compared to the same month in the previous year. The F30 3 Series is BMW's volume seller in China, now the largest auto market in the world !
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      10-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #39
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Meanwhile, over in China, BMW sales increased in September by 59% (Mercedes up by 10%, Audi by 20%) compared to the same month in the previous year. The F30 3 Series is BMW's volume seller in China, now the largest auto market in the world !
Most people who buy the F30 in China could not care less about the driving dynamics, they are looking for a comfortable ride and rear seat space. Most Chinese buy these type of cars do not drive the car themself, they have drivers, that is one of the reason why the F30 long version is only made for the Chinese market.
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      10-08-2012, 12:34 PM   #40
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Most people who buy the F30 in China could not care less about the driving dynamics, they are looking for a comfortable ride and rear seat space. Most Chinese buy these type of cars do not drive the car themself, they have drivers, that is one of the reason why the F30 long version is only made for the Chinese market.
Yes, your statements are all correct. The point is that for BMW, the North American is no longer the only important market for them. A huge chunk of BMW's profitability is tied to the Chinese market, that's why they produce Chinese specific models such as the extended F30L and the F10L.

Many of the Chinese folks who purchase BMWs is large numbers where I live do so for reasons of perceived status. As you said, "they could not care less about the driving dynamics".
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      10-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #41
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For a car that is recently redesigned and considering that both the C-class and the A4 is at the end of their design cycles, the new 3 series should be be posting much better sales numbers.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I think it's a bit early to tell.

A year ago, the E90 was an end term, full roll out, meanwhile the F30 has been RWD for almost a year now, we are finally seeing X-drive trickle in. That leaves the E9x wagons, verts and coupes which people know are being replaced.

Also, at the time a year ago I was looking at silly low lease deals on E90's, $199 a month for RWD, $229 for X-drive. Then boom, the F30 comes out at $459-$399. Leases make up a LOT of 3 series sales.

So I think it's a bit premature.
Also agreed. Let's see what a full 2013 MY run shows b/t the different companies, but first signs are not very good at all.

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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
During the F30 lifecycle, it will outsell c class and A4, and ATS. Guaranteed.
Total sales are not the same thing as market share, which was the topic question. market share seems doomed to diminish.
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      10-08-2012, 01:32 PM   #42
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Not our problem. Those that like the c class will buy it. As an enthusiast the c class doesn't come close to the f30
Agreed. Can't compare the C-Class to the F30 because I haven't driven an F30 yet but compared to the E90, no C-Class (even with a sport setup) drives better than an E90 3-Series. Which is fine because I don't think Mercedes really markets the C-Class as being that sporty. I believe Mercedes is just happy with their product and who they're marketing too. For the enthusiast, it's a head to head between BMW and Audi.
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      10-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #43
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Agreed. Can't compare the C-Class to the F30 because I haven't driven an F30 yet but compared to the E90, no C-Class (even with a sport setup) drives better than an E90 3-Series. Which is fine because I don't think Mercedes really markets the C-Class as being that sporty. I believe Mercedes is just happy with their product and who they're marketing too. For the enthusiast, it's a head to head between BMW and Audi.
I agree. Mercedes knows exactly who their customers are and they cater to them. It helps that their newer cars are less expensive, but that also shows when you drive one and see the materials used in them.

As for enthusiast cars, i dont think the A4 can be considered an enthusiasts car. The S4, sure. But the a4 lacks a lot of qualities that the 328 has. The a4 (quattro because no enthusiast is buying the front wheel drive model) is to heavy, the suspension is to soft(even the sport) and the steering to artificial.
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      10-08-2012, 06:30 PM   #44
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Most people who buy the F30 in China could not care less about the driving dynamics, they are looking for a comfortable ride and rear seat space. Most Chinese buy these type of cars do not drive the car themself, they have drivers, that is one of the reason why the F30 long version is only made for the Chinese market.
The standard wheelbase of the F30 is also available alongside the 3erLi in the Chinese market and both are doing exceptionally well.
Other models doing well are the E92/E93 and the X5 and X6 considering their age which is good for Spartanburg and US exports.
Newer models such as the X1,X3 and 6er are also strong sellers.
And the market is about to receive the M6 which will be introduced by a specific launch event and the all-new 7er which the current model's largest market is China.

I have spoken to people in the US in regarding the F30 performance but I am told it is due to aggressive leasing programmes on the run-out C-Klasse.
If you have taken the opportunity to drive the F30 against its competitors then you will know how far the F30 is ahead of the C-Klasse and way ahead of the Audi A4 so it cannot be the product because the differences in the F30 are highly apparent.

F30 has exceeded the E90 in the same amount of vehicles sold globally from launch to the current time. It is too early to dismiss the F30 as a failure as it has only been months on the market. European demand for the Touring is exceptionally high. As is the 330d model.
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