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      10-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #23
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it would decrease the fuel economy on models with X-Drive if you turn the DSC off, plus its not very safe for the unexpected to happen.
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      10-03-2012, 10:41 PM   #24
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it would decrease the fuel economy on models with X-Drive if you turn the DSC off
Why would this be the case?
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      10-04-2012, 07:11 AM   #25
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Another option, change the Sport Driving Mode settings to be chassis only, and not the drive train. I have seen this option in the settings menu but haven't tried it yet.
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      10-04-2012, 07:45 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by reidpath View Post
Another option, change the Sport Driving Mode settings to be chassis only, and not the drive train. I have seen this option in the settings menu but haven't tried it yet.
In our 2013 328xi you can only reconfigure ecopro in the settings menu as far as I can tell...am I missing something?
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      10-04-2012, 08:26 PM   #27
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In our 2013 328xi you can only reconfigure ecopro in the settings menu as far as I can tell...am I missing something?
Hmm, maybe you need Adaptive M to do it, you can't get that with X-Drive right? On my 2012 Sport Line, I have the option right above the ECO PRO.
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      10-04-2012, 08:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post

I suggest only that every driver should be able to easily handle a luxury car, such as the F30, without electronic traction control, electronic stability control and training wheels. If not, his driving should be limited to a desk - preferably one bolted down and in a chair without wheels.

Similarly, if you cannot feel the car take control, the traction control kick in and do not notice the light on the dash when the nannies take over, you also should not be driving.
What a ridiculous premise. Is that what you enthusiasts aspire to do? Turn off the very features designed to keep you safe so that you can prove that you're some sort of automotive badass?

The F30 is a $50,000 imported luxury car. That's all it is. It's not a sports car. Its purpose is to drive 50 year olds from Point A to Point B in a comfortable and safe manner with a little style and a little class. DTC and DSC aren't optional; they are an integral part of the handling of the car, the car has been designed to function with those features on, you turn them off, you're reducing what the car is designed to do, not accentuating it.

I hope to God that you drive on a track in the manner in which you describe. I'd hate to run into you on the open roads, having you risking my life just so you can have a 5 second "thrill" by taking a 10 MPH turn at 30 MPH to make yourself feel like some myth of a person that forums like this propagate.

Grow up. It's time.

BJ
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      10-04-2012, 09:30 PM   #29
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BJ, stop hyperventilating and actually read my post.

You are engaging in yet another of your pointless straw man arguments. At no time did I advocate any of the behaviors you describe. Additionally, pay attention: I have repeatedly stated the F30 is far from a performance car.

I opine only that if you cannot safely drive a luxury car without DSC you should not be driving. They are driving aides only. It remains the driver's responsibility to drive the car.
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      10-04-2012, 10:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
BJ, stop hyperventilating and actually read my post.

You are engaging in yet another of your pointless straw man arguments. At no time did I advocate any of the behaviors you describe. Additionally, pay attention: I have repeatedly stated the F30 is far from a performance car.

I opine only that if you cannot safely drive a luxury car without DSC you should not be driving. They are driving aides only. It remains the driver's responsibility to drive the car.
I've been driving 3 Series products since 2006 and have never gotten the DSC light to come on once, ever, never. DTC came on in the snow a few times, that's it.

Every driver knows the limits of his car. Take a corner too fast, ooh, you lose control. Takes about 2 days of driving to figure out what your car can and cannot do. Most of us have two cars, imagine that, and we know how the minivan handles vs. the sport sedan. Shocking.

What you threw out there was yet another silly enthusiast myth that turning off DTC and DSC restores the F30 to it's "purest form" which is a bunch of crap. The car was designed to work with DTC and DSC on 24/7 and only to be disengaged in very rare, very necessary circumstances. No one ever pushes their cars to the brink of needing DTC or DSC warning lights to shine because they aren't reckless maniacs using public streets for sport.

I've got an idea. Take out the airbags. After all, they just add weight and any decent driver should be able to avoid an accident and thus they're a waste of nitrogen anyway. Right? Mirrors? Who needs those? A good driver can feel other cars around him using mere sensory perception.

This is what happens when you get a bunch of people buying the wrong car for the wrong purposes. You get really bad advice that others should never read or follow. You want to track your car, get a spec Miata. You want to drive like a felon in residential neighborhoods, buy an XBOX360 like my 11 year old.

BJ
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      10-05-2012, 09:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
Every driver knows the limits of his car.
Sorry, I do not agree with that statement.

I have been to BMW car control clinics and people off the street are shocked at first to not only discover the limits of their cars(understeer, oversteer, thresh-hold breaking etc) but are often very caught off guard in how to react to such situations.

I would say(aside from enthusiasts, and even plenty of those would be surprised) most drivers are very much unaware of the limits of their cars but also their own abilities.

That's my finding from years of auto-x and car clinics with various brands of cars and age/sex of participant.

How else can you explain BMW stating that many 1 series owner do not even know there cars are RWD? There is a very different reaction to a person experiencing oversteer vs understeer if not used to it.
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      10-05-2012, 01:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Sorry, I do not agree with that statement.

I have been to BMW car control clinics and people off the street are shocked at first to not only discover the limits of their cars(understeer, oversteer, thresh-hold breaking etc) but are often very caught off guard in how to react to such situations.

I would say(aside from enthusiasts, and even plenty of those would be surprised) most drivers are very much unaware of the limits of their cars but also their own abilities.

That's my finding from years of auto-x and car clinics with various brands of cars and age/sex of participant.

How else can you explain BMW stating that many 1 series owner do not even know there cars are RWD? There is a very different reaction to a person experiencing oversteer vs understeer if not used to it.
You're making my point for me.

Thus the reason that no one should turn off the very features that protect us from that lack of understanding. Hey, you want to turn off DTC and DSC on an auto cross event, go ahead. Public streets, different story.

BJ
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      10-05-2012, 02:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
You're making my point for me.

Thus the reason that no one should turn off the very features that protect us from that lack of understanding. Hey, you want to turn off DTC and DSC on an auto cross event, go ahead. Public streets, different story.

BJ
Well I agree in that MOST should not turn off driving aids as most people need all the help they can get.

But there are situations and those drivers that should be offered the choice to turn it off.
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      10-05-2012, 06:02 PM   #34
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is that safe
Nope! DSC has kept me out the central reservation before when I hit some diesel on the road.

I can't recommend this

Also, I believe with DSC OFF, it "locks up" the rear differential to a higher extent so you can slide the b*stard. Or drag yourself out of snow...
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      10-05-2012, 09:56 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
What you threw out there was yet another silly enthusiast myth that turning off DTC and DSC restores the F30 to it's "purest form" which is a bunch of crap.
I have never posted stating anything like this whatsoever. I have no clue with whom you are arguing, but it isn't me.

You may want to cut down on the drinking and posting.
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      10-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
I have never posted stating anything like this whatsoever. I have no clue with whom you are arguing, but it isn't me.

You may want to cut down on the drinking and posting.
I apologize. I've been stuck in bed recovering from a medical procedure, hitting the Oxycontin a bit much. Weening off of it now, I should be good by Monday.

BJ
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      10-06-2012, 08:13 AM   #37
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I think it is an awful idea to turn DSC off just so you can drive in comfort mode with tighter steering. Why not just drive in sport mode? At the Performance Center during my PCD, one of the exercises that we did was to take the car on the skidpad with DSC and DTC turned off and then later turned on. The differences are amazing. You really do not have to push the car that hard to get it to spin out of control, and that was at about 20 mph. After experiencing what it felt like to drive without DSC and doing two 360s while having no control over the direction of the vehicle, i would never think about turning them off during normal driving. The risk doesn't come close to outweighing the slight benefit of having heavier steering in comfort mode, the same steering feel that you can get in sport mode with DSC.

If you ever have a chance, either take a course at the Performance Center or take delivery of your next car there. Talk with the instructors (who all have extensive experiencing racing) about DSC and they will tell you that you would be crazy to turn it off while driving.
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      10-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gator15 View Post
I think it is an awful idea to turn DSC off just so you can drive in comfort mode with tighter steering. Why not just drive in sport mode? At the Performance Center during my PCD, one of the exercises that we did was to take the car on the skidpad with DSC and DTC turned off and then later turned on. The differences are amazing. You really do not have to push the car that hard to get it to spin out of control, and that was at about 20 mph. After experiencing what it felt like to drive without DSC and doing two 360s while having no control over the direction of the vehicle, i would never think about turning them off during normal driving. The risk doesn't come close to outweighing the slight benefit of having heavier steering in comfort mode, the same steering feel that you can get in sport mode with DSC.

If you ever have a chance, either take a course at the Performance Center or take delivery of your next car there. Talk with the instructors (who all have extensive experiencing racing) about DSC and they will tell you that you would be crazy to turn it off while driving.
problem with sport mode is it makes the throttle way to sensitive and holds gears longer than some people want for regular driving, not to mention it uses a lot more gas, not saying this fix is a good idea, but sport mode has its drawbacks when one is not looking to drive agressive.
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      10-06-2012, 10:35 AM   #39
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I apologize.
Extremely gracious of you.

Recover quickly!
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      10-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by gator15 View Post
I think it is an awful idea to turn DSC off just so you can drive in comfort mode with tighter steering.
It is a tradeoff which is probably not worth it for many.

On the other hand, in normal driving on a nice day any increased risk is minimal. Also consider that the majority of the cars on the road still do not have stability control. They are not routinely and randomly spinning out of control.

Well implemented stability control is amazing, regardless.
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      10-06-2012, 10:53 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by reidpath View Post
Another option, change the Sport Driving Mode settings to be chassis only, and not the drive train. I have seen this option in the settings menu but haven't tried it yet.
I have this set-up on my soon to go X335D M Sport, chassis only is the best of both worlds I use it every time I drive. This is going to be my setting on the 330D m Sport touring when it shows up that is.
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      10-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
What a ridiculous premise. Is that what you enthusiasts aspire to do? Turn off the very features designed to keep you safe so that you can prove that you're some sort of automotive badass?

The F30 is a $50,000 imported luxury car. That's all it is. It's not a sports car. Its purpose is to drive 50 year olds from Point A to Point B in a comfortable and safe manner with a little style and a little class. DTC and DSC aren't optional; they are an integral part of the handling of the car, the car has been designed to function with those features on, you turn them off, you're reducing what the car is designed to do, not accentuating it.

I hope to God that you drive on a track in the manner in which you describe. I'd hate to run into you on the open roads, having you risking my life just so you can have a 5 second "thrill" by taking a 10 MPH turn at 30 MPH to make yourself feel like some myth of a person that forums like this propagate.

Grow up. It's time.

BJ
BJ, I think you may have it backwards.
Being able to drive normally without DSC on is NOT going to endanger anyone.
Simply, if you know he basics of driving and handling, then you can easily be just as safe with DSC on or off.

Thinking you need DSC to be safe, can give some drivers a false sense of security so that they over drive their skills and then hope DSC can save it for them. THAT's the driver you need to stay away from.
The driver who understands his skills and cars limits can easily drive his car safely even when DSC is turned off.

You're greatly overstating this issue, imo.
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      10-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
BJ, I think you may have it backwards.
Being able to drive normally without DSC on is NOT going to endanger anyone.
Simply, if you know he basics of driving and handling, then you can easily be just as safe with DSC on or off.

Thinking you need DSC to be safe, can give some drivers a false sense of security so that they over drive their skills and then hope DSC can save it for them. THAT's the driver you need to stay away from.
The driver who understands his skills and cars limits can easily drive his car safely even when DSC is turned off.

You're greatly overstating this issue, imo.
Putting it simply, BMW is building the car to always have DSC and DTC constantly in the 'on' position. It implies that they are taking shortcuts with the basic suspension because they know they have these two features as their security blanket, that they've designed the suspension system as a whole taking these two important systems into account.

So turning both of them off doesn't just change the driving dynamics, but theoretically is making the car deliberately more dangerous to drive.

BJ
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      10-06-2012, 10:50 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
Putting it simply, BMW is building the car to always have DSC and DTC constantly in the 'on' position. It implies that they are taking shortcuts with the basic suspension because they know they have these two features as their security blanket, that they've designed the suspension system as a whole taking these two important systems into account.

So turning both of them off doesn't just change the driving dynamics, but theoretically is making the car deliberately more dangerous to drive.

BJ
I think you are correct, and some / most drivers "take it for granted" and drive accordingly.
I would like the "option" to drive with "sport chassis" in comfort mode though.
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