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      10-24-2012, 05:06 AM   #23
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I don't think dealers help - well certain dealers anyway. My mother-in-law recently purchased an Evoque (came with all-weather tyres) and I told her to ask them about their 'winter tyres service' when she collected it. She did and the saleman's response was "Winter tyres? Completely unnecessary... never known a Landrover have difficulty in the snow".
You would think the dealer would see the '' signs appear in front of his eyes. Evoque looks lovely on the road. I know BMW are doing an offer at the moment for 700 on steel wheel winter tyres and 30 to store yours. I'd hate to hear those 19" grinding against the kerb, I'll drop some hints to missus for an early Xmas present.
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      10-24-2012, 05:51 AM   #24
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Thats right BMW do steels with Continentals (Non-Runflats) for 772 and steels with bridgestones (Runflats) for 812, I decided for 40 extra i'd have the runflats instead of mobility kit actually on RobUK's advice.

BMW UK will store them for 30 each time and then charge 39 each time for fitting. My Local Dealer Specialist cars charge 100 a year and will do the storing and fitting all included for both sets of wheels theres possibly upto about 30-40 saving doing it the dealer way, I'm going for it because instead of being stored Centrally then Dealer will store them locally so I can effectively call up the day before and I say I want to come in tomorrow and switch sets and the wheels will be available.
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      10-24-2012, 06:12 AM   #25
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Totally agree with you M40WST, nice to have a sensible forum debate. Stopping is no different. ...

I am sure winter tyres will be immense, this time for me I decided more on drivetrain because xdrive became available and, despite Highland Pete's seeming insistence, I do not think xdrive will compensate for poor tyres.
I'm not sure how you are reading me, but it seems you may be reading me wrong. I'm only saying what some others have said in this debate, (obviously in my way) and you appear to agree with.

I don't know how you get to your comment highlighted. I'm not insisting on anything, just sharing views and experience, like we all are.

I'm sorry if you read me wrong, there is no intention to down your opinion. My observations about the 'invincible' driver is not based on you at all, but experience and the views of those I hear around me, seen expressed on TV interviews, etc., but do see it on forums as well.

I agree with the salesman bit as well, there is this 'widespead' notion that once you have a 4X4 your driving world is OK for adverse driving conditions, when clearly that in itself is not the case, or factual.

Enjoy your 320i xDrive, will be a superb car, and agree with you it will have advantages over and above the RWD version, off the peg, in some driving situations.

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      10-24-2012, 08:25 AM   #26
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I suppose the argument is that in any given situation - AWD will out-perform a RWD if using the same tyres, however in cold/wet/snowy conditions RWD + winter tyres will out-perform AWD + summer tyres.

I tried to represent this in a table (and probably failed miserably!)

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      10-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #27
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I suppose the argument is that in any given situation - AWD will out-perform a RWD if using the same tyres, however in cold/wet/snowy conditions RWD + winter tyres will out-perform AWD + summer tyres.

I tried to represent this in a table (and probably failed miserably!)

It makes sense to me theres no doubt from me that in whatever conditions if a 4x4 has the correct tyres for that condition it'll win hands down against RWD.
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      10-24-2012, 09:30 AM   #28
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It makes sense to me theres no doubt from me that in whatever conditions if a 4x4 has the correct tyres for that condition it'll win hands down against RWD.
I agree, and like anything, set up a decent tool to its best performance, is hard to beat.

I see some of the crofters up here in their AWD cars and utility vehicles on some pretty decent winter tyre sets. But the school run mums are typically on AWD with at best 'All season' tyres, many on summer tyres in the same conditions. It is a bit scary to see them driving their kids around in the same manner and speeds as the guys with the proper kit on their vehicles.

As long as we know the limitations.... but I'm sure there are many who just assume 4x4 means safe mobility.

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      10-24-2012, 09:41 AM   #29
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I know I am going to sound like an old man but if house builders started building decent sized garages again people might actually invest in winter tyres / snow chains etc as storage might become feasible. I know my friends in America are able to use their garages for car stuff and their cars are lovely and warm on a cold morning.
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      10-24-2012, 10:02 AM   #30
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I know I am going to sound like an old man but if house builders started building decent sized garages again people might actually invest in winter tyres / snow chains etc as storage might become feasible. I know my friends in America are able to use their garages for car stuff and their cars are lovely and warm on a cold morning.
Your definitely right there, I looked at winter tyres on previous cars (all FWD) but just didn't have the storage space to store them, but with the BMW I saw them as a nessicity and its great that the dealer will store them for me
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      10-24-2012, 10:11 AM   #31
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Winter wheels and tyres are great on BMW"s, you do not need 4*4 just proper winter tyres.
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      10-24-2012, 10:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rb79 View Post
I know I am going to sound like an old man but if house builders started building decent sized garages again people might actually invest in winter tyres / snow chains etc as storage might become feasible. I know my friends in America are able to use their garages for car stuff and their cars are lovely and warm on a cold morning.
Sure is a problem to many who may consider having two wheel sets. It is one reason the car companies like BMW are offering the storage service.

Personally I think there are several reasons why winter tyres went off the radar for many drivers.

We have got away with lots of mild winters, even in the south there used to be much more snow and frost years back.

I'm in a village that used to know when the cold would come in, within a few days, with virtually the same snowfall and period of sub zero temperatures through each winter.

Since I've been here we've had severe snow and -20C as early as mid November, to no snow all winter, and mostly temperatures around 10C, so tyres have lost the focus they once had. It is the last three years that have reminded us winter can still bite.

Tyres have moved more to performance summer tyres on more cars, with much bigger sections (even less effective in winter) and many more drivers these days couldn't change a wheel, even if they had wheels to put on. Even our current BMWs don't have wheel changing kit, so we are much more removed from the wheel than ever before.

Really means if we do it ourselves we need space, more kit, preferably a couple of trolley jacks and torque wrench, etc., plus the inclination to do it ourselves.

Never mind the costs involved, even if viewed as an up front cost. So not a priority or practical to many, not even to those who know the benefits of a winter wheel set.

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      10-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #33
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RWD is why you buy a BMW IMO!

Man up and go sideways.
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      10-24-2012, 11:22 AM   #34
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RWD is why you buy a BMW IMO!

Man up and go sideways.
Going sideways = fun

Going sideways into another vehicle = not so fun
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      10-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #35
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Out of interest, does anyone know what tyres the f30 come with? I would guess they would come with all weather tyres rather than summer tyres but grateful if anyone could advise.

Not particularly thrilled about having to fork out for a set of winter wheels and tyres. Agreed that in harsh conditions winter tyres are probably a must whatever your drive system but south of the border where conditions aren't as bad x drive seems like a reasonable compromise without the need to run 2 sets of wheels. I'm not sure I'd want the added hassle of selling them if I wanted to change the car.
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      10-24-2012, 01:23 PM   #36
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Engine and gearbox make a massive difference to driving in low grip conditions IMO. In a 2l petrol manual you have good control of the power and hence the car. The problem comes with diesel automatics where all the power comes low down and you don't have a manual clutch to control the transmission to the wheels.

I remember driving a 530d auto in the snow and you had to have your wits about you when pulling away.

Mind you that was a good few years and I'm no auto expert. I understand modern auto boxes are considerably smarter than me now!
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      10-24-2012, 01:28 PM   #37
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RWD is why you buy a BMW IMO!

Man up and go sideways.
Fair point, I think xdrive does give a 60/40 rearward bias in normal driving
to give you that RWD feel.

Did some tyre research and think they come will all season tyres in UK.
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      10-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #38
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Fair point, I think xdrive does give a 60/40 rearward bias in normal driving
to give you that RWD feel.

Did some tyre research and think they come will all season tyres in UK.
It's easy for me to say as I live where it is relatively dry and very flat!
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      10-24-2012, 01:53 PM   #39
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Rb79, apologies if my post earlier came across as condescending. I just reacted to this quote below. Which if you read it on it's own suggests that AWD sorts out any wintery condition issues. I guess that is how I and Highlandpete read it.

One of the most dangerous cars I had in slippery conditions was an AWD car, it had summer performance tyres on it.

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Never bothered with special tyres on my audis and don't intend to now either as not planning on anything extreme just reassurance on slippery surfaces
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      10-24-2012, 03:13 PM   #40
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Did some tyre research and think they come will all season tyres in UK.
I can see why they would do so, as they do for other countries.

But for me (and many other BMW drivers) that would be a no no, I'd want summer tyres for summer use. In my experience an All Season tyre is a "jack of all trades, master of none". Even though All Season's are getting better, still too much compromise for me, not good enough for decent summer performance driving and not quite up there for my needs in the winter.

But for many, an All Season would be the best and simplest compromise.

Good that we have choices and options.

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      10-24-2012, 04:10 PM   #41
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I can see why they would do so, as they do for other countries.

But for me (and many other BMW drivers) that would be a no no, I'd want summer tyres for summer use. In my experience an All Season tyre is a "jack of all trades, master of none". Even though All Season's are getting better, still too much compromise for me, not good enough for decent summer performance driving and not quite up there for my needs in the winter.

But for many, an All Season would be the best and simplest compromise.

Good that we have choices and options.

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When do you switch from winter to summer?
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      10-24-2012, 04:43 PM   #42
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When do you switch from winter to summer?
In Scotland? Summers for July and August, lol
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      10-24-2012, 04:51 PM   #43
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When do you switch from winter to summer?
There has to be a bit of 'give and take' and watching the weather trends. Last spring it was middle of April, as we had some late frosts and snow. But then it went very warm in a day or so, requiring a quick change. Normally judge it right, but did get caught out several years ago, when a cold blast came down from the north unexpected, and I was on the way to Inverness on summer tyres and we hit heavy snow that wasn't forecast.

This end of the season I'm watching the forecast, as this weekend is said to be going colder, but local forecasts still hint at it being too warm for fitting the winter tyres. Nights are colder, but still getting mid teens in the day.

But winter tyres will cope reasonably well with warmer temperatures as long as you don't drive at the limits. I change them myself, as I store them in my shed, so no real difficulty to do it when I judge it the best time.

One of the biggest risks up here is icing, and where most accidents occur. We have large signs with "roads liable to icing" displayed. Winter tyres do make a big difference and I've been saved from the ditch when the car in front went out of control on black ice, and I had to brake mid bend. A little bit of a twitch, but so different than a summer tyre.

I had a chance to try my 330d on smooth but solid ice in my lane. Tried both sets of wheels for grip, acceleration and braking. It was good to find how different the limits in a controlled manner, rather than find how they work in anger.

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      10-25-2012, 03:32 AM   #44
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Out of interest, does anyone know what tyres the f30 come with? I would guess they would come with all weather tyres rather than summer tyres but grateful if anyone could advise.

Not particularly thrilled about having to fork out for a set of winter wheels and tyres. Agreed that in harsh conditions winter tyres are probably a must whatever your drive system but south of the border where conditions aren't as bad x drive seems like a reasonable compromise without the need to run 2 sets of wheels. I'm not sure I'd want the added hassle of selling them if I wanted to change the car.
Summer performance tyres 225 fronts 255 rears continentals seem to be favourite.
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