F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > Another ATS Review
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-21-2012, 01:02 PM   #45
boltjames
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 533
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
Are you angry because GM made a car that reviewers are saying has matched the 3 series on some characteristics?

It's clear BMW has changed the focus of the 3 series to attract buyers from other brands. Therefore, it's no surprise that the gap is closing....they can blame themselves for that.
No, not angry at all. I pay no attention to off-brands like Cadillac, so if they sell some cars good for them, doesn't affect me at all. I get annoyed at the endless comparisons cluttering up the board because it's a waste of time, but it's not the end of the world.

BMW has not changed its focus to attract buyers from other brands; they responded to the needs of their existing customer base by making a car that is bigger for our growing families, more luxurious for our growing salaries, and softer for our growing maturity. Eventually, you turn 40, high school girls don't look at you any more, local streets stop being drag strips, and you grow up as you shuttle your kids to baseball practice.

BMW has built a car that millions of customers will find engaging. Cadillac has built a car for no one. Too small for it's 60 year old consumer base, too expensive for Chevy owners to step-up to, too silly a brand to be taken seriously.

The F30 will be the best selling car in BMW's history. They've definitely only have themselves to "blame" if you want to call it that.

BJ
boltjames is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #46
alep85
New Member
 
Drives: 2009 328i Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United States

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
+1

Rational discourse based on actual facts and real-world experience has no place here.
True that. Don't expect to come to a BMW fanboy forum and hear glowing praises for the ATS. That being said, if I couldn't get an F30, the ATS 3.6 would be my 2nd choice.
alep85 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2012, 10:33 PM   #47
claykin
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2014 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida

Posts: 1,792
iTrader: (0)

Here's my 2 cents after a real world test drive of an ATS.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=133
claykin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2012, 12:27 AM   #48
rxander
Lieutenant
 
rxander's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 Alpine White
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Diego

Posts: 472
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Do you guys in the US seriously think the car has 'looks' inside or out?

I look it from an 'across the pond' perspective and I just can't get my head around the front of the car at all. Where is the design? Is there any theme to it at all? To me the interior dash is just plain horrible, I just couldn't live with it, day in day out, however it drives.

Sorry, but I'd just walk by and think some "poor soul" will buy that, and have to live with it.

Each to his own, but the ATS doesn't stir me one little bit.

HighlandPete
I feel the same but the flip side is ATS owners are saying the same thing. I get that 'look' from an ATS owner parking across from me at work. I really can't see how most BMW owners can cross shop or compare the 2. When I was shopping for a new car : BMW 3 series, Audi A4, then the C300 from Mercedes.
rxander is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2012, 06:18 AM   #49
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
No, not angry at all. I pay no attention to off-brands like Cadillac, so if they sell some cars good for them, doesn't affect me at all. I get annoyed at the endless comparisons cluttering up the board because it's a waste of time, but it's not the end of the world.

BMW has not changed its focus to attract buyers from other brands; they responded to the needs of their existing customer base by making a car that is bigger for our growing families, more luxurious for our growing salaries, and softer for our growing maturity. Eventually, you turn 40, high school girls don't look at you any more, local streets stop being drag strips, and you grow up as you shuttle your kids to baseball practice.

BMW has built a car that millions of customers will find engaging. Cadillac has built a car for no one. Too small for it's 60 year old consumer base, too expensive for Chevy owners to step-up to, too silly a brand to be taken seriously.

The F30 will be the best selling car in BMW's history. They've definitely only have themselves to "blame" if you want to call it that.

BJ
LOL. Here's some kool-aid.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2012, 01:57 PM   #50
Michael Schott
Major
 
Drives: 2011 328i sedan
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Farmington Hills, MI

Posts: 1,406
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Do you guys in the US seriously think the car has 'looks' inside or out?

I look it from an 'across the pond' perspective and I just can't get my head around the front of the car at all. Where is the design? Is there any theme to it at all? To me the interior dash is just plain horrible, I just couldn't live with it, day in day out, however it drives.

Sorry, but I'd just walk by and think some "poor soul" will buy that, and have to live with it.

Each to his own, but the ATS doesn't stir me one little bit.

HighlandPete
Your take is not surprising from a European. European cars tend to have simpler more functional style than those in the USA. I looked at an ATS the other day at a dealer and thought it looked fine. It's directly in line with the angular style Cadillac started with the original CTS. It's definitely a tauter design than the more bulbous 3 series. Both look nice to me. I also liked the Caddy interior except they have tried to make it too high tech looking at the expense of functionality. Get rid of the piano black that is everywhere and give me normal gauges and a simpler interface.
Michael Schott is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-25-2012, 07:52 AM   #51
Reznick
First Lieutenant
 
Reznick's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 ,2000 330
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Syracuse NY

Posts: 383
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzcrna View Post
I totally agree. I don't care what the reviews and claims are. Nobody is going to cross-shop BMW and Cadillac. GM was dumb to think that they would convert BMW drivers.

I agree that the only people that will be buying this car are present Cadillac owners or those who are tired of Acura or Infiniti. I think Acura is in real trouble IMHO.
Well I must have aged by 40+ years while I was sleeping one night (since as someone had posted earlier, that only people in their 80's are buying caddy's) and yes I've cross shopped BMW & Cadillac.& yes I currently own BOTH. My first brand new car was a BMW. I had many new BMW's follow that one. I've had a good range of all makes and models of cars and trucks. I drove the first Gen CTS when it came out and passed on it. Everything about it was wrong. Then came the 2nd generation CTS . I drove 3.6 DI and loved it.SOOO much better than the 1st Gen, inside & out.Bought one in late 2009. It wasn't a direct competitor to the 3 series, but it wasn't meant to be.I still have that CTS & it has never been in the shop for any repairs. I just drove all 3 versions of the ATS last week. Obviously I liked the 3.6 , but the 2.5 turbo was a fun car. To me the ONLY thing that let the car down was the transmission. The car is handsome. Everything looks tight. The interior is elegant and has nice feel on the plastics. I will agree that its not quite there ,,,yet as a direct competitor to the 3 series. BUt the car just came out. There will be improvements to come.( hopefully the transmission and the best improvement ,a V). The supension and steering feeling were spot on to me
Anyone who doesn't cross shop these 2 cars is making a mistake. I hate when people already have their mind made up about a car without even driving it. Who cares what a magazine or journalist says,,go drive it for yourself and make up your own mind.If you're that guy or girl that has it in their head that " BMW is the best , so why would I consider something else" I really feel sorry for you . If the BMW is what you've been dreaming of for a long time,,go for it ,you won't be disappointed . But once you get that 1st one out of your system go try something else . There's no saying you can't go back .Ultimately if you can afford to own 2 nice cars from different manufacturers , why not? Sorry for the rant
For those of you wondering, I just turned 40 last week. I bought my first new BMW when I was 24. I bought my first car when I was 14 , a 66 Chevelle. I still have it....I'm far from 80 & I still have a full head of hair without any grey steaks,,yet
Reznick is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-25-2012, 02:38 PM   #52
F30AM
Brigadier General
 
F30AM's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 330d M Sport sDrive
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: London, UK

Posts: 3,660
iTrader: (0)

Fictional Truth.


Pretty girl (or boy):
Question: What car do you drive?
Answer: A Cadillac.
Reaction: I see. (Down turned mouth, total lack of interest).
End of conversation. No chance of a bonk.


Pretty girl (or boy):
Question: What car do you drive?
Answer: A BMW.
Reaction: Wow! That's nice. (Interest levels rising, eyes widening, chance of a fumble on the agenda).
Question: Which kind?
Answer: A 3 Series.
Reaction: Wow! How fab is that? (Huge interest, good chance of more than a fumble).
Question: Is it fast?
Answer: Yes, very.
Reaction: I bet it is. (Interest levels now rising really rapidly, widened eyes, nearly in for a bonk).
Question: Do you love it?
Answer: Very much. It's a fabulous car.
Reaction: Wow! You lucky sod. (The deal is nearly done. Bonking is on the agenda. Only a nuclear war can stop it).
Question: What colour is it?
Answer: Estoril Blue II with Coral Red Leather.
Reaction: Wow! It must look really lovely. (Interest levels now sky high, lots of bonking on the agenda, love is in the air).
Question: I'd love to have a ride in it. Can I?
The rest is history .........

A BMW is The Ultimate Driving Machine and then some.

I rest my case.

__________________
Present: Superman 330d sDrive M Sport (Auto Car: 0-60 in 5.5s, 0-100 in 14.2s, 30-70 in 5.1s)
Ordered: Red Tornado Golf 7R 5 Dr, DSG (Top Gear: 0-60 in 4.5s, 0-100 in 11.5s, 30-70 in 4.0s)
F30AM is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-25-2012, 03:42 PM   #53
Lucky13
Lucky13
 
Drives: 2014 M235 manual
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbia, S.C.

Posts: 1,079
iTrader: (0)

When the 2 series coupe (4 door) arrives in 2014 it will be a direct competitor to the ATS and may undercut it in price. Interior space should be comparable which is down from the 3 series.
__________________
1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8,2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0,
2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive,
2014 M235 manual
Lucky13 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 07:05 AM   #54
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F30AM View Post
Fictional Truth.


Pretty girl (or boy):
Question: What car do you drive?
Answer: A Cadillac.
Reaction: I see. (Down turned mouth, total lack of interest).
End of conversation. No chance of a bonk.


Pretty girl (or boy):
Question: What car do you drive?
Answer: A BMW.
Reaction: Wow! That's nice. (Interest levels rising, eyes widening, chance of a fumble on the agenda).
Question: Which kind?
Answer: A 3 Series.
Reaction: Wow! How fab is that? (Huge interest, good chance of more than a fumble).
Question: Is it fast?
Answer: Yes, very.
Reaction: I bet it is. (Interest levels now rising really rapidly, widened eyes, nearly in for a bonk).
Question: Do you love it?
Answer: Very much. It's a fabulous car.
Reaction: Wow! You lucky sod. (The deal is nearly done. Bonking is on the agenda. Only a nuclear war can stop it).
Question: What colour is it?
Answer: Estoril Blue II with Coral Red Leather.
Reaction: Wow! It must look really lovely. (Interest levels now sky high, lots of bonking on the agenda, love is in the air).
Question: I'd love to have a ride in it. Can I?
The rest is history .........

A BMW is The Ultimate Driving Machine and then some.

I rest my case.

Here's an idea, some people have such fine attributes that they don't need a fancy badge-whore car to get laid. Generally speaking, those people with such fine attributes and maturity, also enjoy driving a fine car, regardless of the badge on the hood.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 07:12 AM   #55
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
Well I must have aged by 40+ years while I was sleeping one night (since as someone had posted earlier, that only people in their 80's are buying caddy's) and yes I've cross shopped BMW & Cadillac.& yes I currently own BOTH. My first brand new car was a BMW. I had many new BMW's follow that one. I've had a good range of all makes and models of cars and trucks. I drove the first Gen CTS when it came out and passed on it. Everything about it was wrong. Then came the 2nd generation CTS . I drove 3.6 DI and loved it.SOOO much better than the 1st Gen, inside & out.Bought one in late 2009. It wasn't a direct competitor to the 3 series, but it wasn't meant to be.I still have that CTS & it has never been in the shop for any repairs. I just drove all 3 versions of the ATS last week. Obviously I liked the 3.6 , but the 2.5 turbo was a fun car. To me the ONLY thing that let the car down was the transmission. The car is handsome. Everything looks tight. The interior is elegant and has nice feel on the plastics. I will agree that its not quite there ,,,yet as a direct competitor to the 3 series. BUt the car just came out. There will be improvements to come.( hopefully the transmission and the best improvement ,a V). The supension and steering feeling were spot on to me
Anyone who doesn't cross shop these 2 cars is making a mistake. I hate when people already have their mind made up about a car without even driving it. Who cares what a magazine or journalist says,,go drive it for yourself and make up your own mind.If you're that guy or girl that has it in their head that " BMW is the best , so why would I consider something else" I really feel sorry for you . If the BMW is what you've been dreaming of for a long time,,go for it ,you won't be disappointed . But once you get that 1st one out of your system go try something else . There's no saying you can't go back .Ultimately if you can afford to own 2 nice cars from different manufacturers , why not? Sorry for the rant
For those of you wondering, I just turned 40 last week. I bought my first new BMW when I was 24. I bought my first car when I was 14 , a 66 Chevelle. I still have it....I'm far from 80 & I still have a full head of hair without any grey steaks,,yet
I'll say this, as a 50-year old with a full head of hair (and some grey), after 25-years of 3-Series ownership, I see the Cadillac ATS as a way to not have to step up to an old-man's overtly large and cumbersome F10 5-Series and buy a car that has some class but actually possess some of the preferred attributes of the 3-Series, those being the correct size and weight, great handling, steering, and braking...

I hope someone comes out with a "Piss-on BMW" sticker for my new ATS.

Is the shift quailty of the manual really THAT bad.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 07:32 AM   #56
justinnum1
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 335i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

Posts: 3,960
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'll say this, as a 50-year old with a full head of hair (and some grey), after 25-years of 3-Series ownership, I see the Cadillac ATS as a way to not have to step up to an old-man's overtly large and cumbersome F10 5-Series and buy a car that has some class but actually possess some of the preferred attributes of the 3-Series, those being the correct size and weight, great handling, steering, and braking...

I hope someone comes out with a "Piss-on BMW" sticker for my new ATS.

Is the shift quailty of the manual really THAT bad.
It's awful from what i read.
__________________
F30 335i Msport Estoril Blue/Black leather sport auto. black grills, Performance Exhaust, HK,
justinnum1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 07:43 AM   #57
boltjames
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 533
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
LOL. Here's some kool-aid.


Yeah, because it's not like this hasn't happened before, right?

The last time Cadillac tried the "sporty smaller car" concept it nearly took the company down.

You'd think they'd learn the lesson of avoiding cars that have no audience.

BJ
boltjames is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 07:46 AM   #58
boltjames
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 533
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'll say this, as a 50-year old with a full head of hair (and some grey), after 25-years of 3-Series ownership, I see the Cadillac ATS as a way to not have to step up to an old-man's overtly large and cumbersome F10 5-Series and buy a car that has some class but actually possess some of the preferred attributes of the 3-Series, those being the correct size and weight, great handling, steering, and braking...

I hope someone comes out with a "Piss-on BMW" sticker for my new ATS.


We'll get you a bumper sticker that says:

Quick-handling......road hugging......responsive for your Cimarron 2.0.

BJ
boltjames is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:13 AM   #59
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

[quote=boltjames;12901325
We'll get you a bumper sticker that says:

Quick-handling......road hugging......responsive for your Cimarron 2.0.

BJ[/QUOTE]

Ah, all this from a "Luxury" F30 owner. Nice. Thanks, Mr. Expert. Get a real sport sedan then call me and we'll talk. I'll be happy to show you how to drive a 3-pedal car.

Enjoy those paddle-shifters.... Hope your Rolex doesn't scratch the console.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:18 AM   #60
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
It's awful from what i read.
That's the point. If BMW's shift so well, why does EVERYONE sell a short shift kit...
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:20 AM   #61
justinnum1
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 335i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

Posts: 3,960
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
That's the point. If BMW's shift so well, why does EVERYONE sell a short shift kit...
If ferraris sound so good, why do so many companies make exhausts for them?
__________________
F30 335i Msport Estoril Blue/Black leather sport auto. black grills, Performance Exhaust, HK,
justinnum1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:35 AM   #62
boltjames
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 533
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Ah, all this from a "Luxury" F30 owner. Nice. Thanks, Mr. Expert. Get a real sport sedan then call me and we'll talk. I'll be happy to show you how to drive a 3-pedal car.

Enjoy those paddle-shifters.... Hope your Rolex doesn't scratch the console.
You know, eventually you get to an age where high school girls don't find you attractive anymore.

Be safe in your Cadillac; wouldn't want your grandkids to get injured, Mr. Andretti.

BJ
boltjames is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:37 AM   #63
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
If ferraris sound so good, why do so many companies make exhausts for them?
To make them sound better? I think you made my point. Thanks.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:39 AM   #64
justinnum1
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 335i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

Posts: 3,960
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To make them sound better? I think you made my point. Thanks.
Your point is not a very good one. The bmw manual isn't perfect. But its better than the ATS(from all reports).
__________________
F30 335i Msport Estoril Blue/Black leather sport auto. black grills, Performance Exhaust, HK,
justinnum1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #65
Efthreeoh
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

Posts: 2,829
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
You know, eventually you get to an age where high school girls don't find you attractive anymore.

Be safe in your Cadillac; wouldn't want your grandkids to get injured, Mr. Andretti.

BJ
Yes, true, and thank God, who'd want to date a high-school girl when he's not of high-school age? High-school girls don't know much and it'd be a waste of time.

And my grandkids, if I had any, would know how to drive a manual transmission... I'd see to it.

Well, at least your hands are free so you can text on your phone while driving. See ya.
Efthreeoh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #66
boltjames
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 533
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Yes, true, and thank God, who'd want to date a high-school girl when he's not of high-school age? High-school girls don't know much and it'd be a waste of time.

And my grandkids, if I had any, would know how to drive a manual transmission... I'd see to it.

Well, at least your hands are free so you can text on your phone while driving. See ya.
Manual transmissions are for children, you're grown up now, pops.

BMW's and Cadillac's are not "sport sedans". The word "sport" is just put there by savvy marketers trying to fool people like you into thinking you're driving a race car as you pull out of PetSmart hauling a 40 pound bag of kibble back to your mundane life in suburbia.

Now get off the Windows 95 computer, put on your Member's Only jacket, grab that Rush cassette, and drive your son to soccer practice in your Cadillac you badass, you.

BJ
boltjames is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST