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      10-10-2012, 01:55 PM   #1
john08135i
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N26 vs N20 engine my review.

So i have a 2013 Msport with an n20 but i got for a loaner a new base <premium pckg> 2013 with an n26.
The n26 has NO turb lag.. mine does.
The n26 feels faster to me.
The base model 3 is horrible.
The brakes feel smaller, non nav sucks, dash without enhanced screen is cheap, pirellis tires spin much easier, flat seats, comfort access for trunk by sweeping your foot is very slow.

n20:
My interior is much nicer with sport seats and blue trim piece.
Msport steering wheel looks and fells MUCH nicer.
sport auto trans is better

For the $6k price difference for my M is a no brainer. I got nav, enhanced BT and better styling, sport transmission and sport seats.

So below thats a shot of the blow off on the loaner..N26 right?
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      10-10-2012, 02:02 PM   #2
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What is the deal with N26? I must've missed that....please explain....
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      10-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #3
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Im not sure.. i heard only california and other strict emissions states got the N26 which has a more controlled electronic blow off valve.
The pic is of the new N26 valve setup.

Seriously though it has NO turbo lag.
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      10-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #4
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N26 is the SULEV version of N20.

I don't know if there's any performance differences. But my wife's E46 had a SULEV engine and it was better for several reasons. Many of the parts were stainless steel and it came with an extended 150k miles emissions warranty. Basically anything along the fuel system (Check Engine light OBD stuff) will be replaced for free by BMW.

We had a stainless steel gas tank replaced at 110k miles. It would've cost $8000 at the dealer.
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      10-11-2012, 08:25 AM   #5
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OK i might be confused now.. how can you tell the difference between an N20 and N26?
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      10-29-2012, 12:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john08135i View Post
OK i might be confused now.. how can you tell the difference between an N20 and N26?
Easiest way would be to look at the model code from your vehicle inquiry listing. Code 133O and 133Y are for the SULEV N26. Does anyone know if dyno plots for the N26 are available yet? My CA put down 133Y (South African SULEV 328i) for my build without so much as mentioning it I just hope its got the same underrated performance as the N20.
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      10-29-2012, 09:42 AM   #7
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OK mine shows N20 but the waste-gate looks electric?
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      10-29-2012, 09:49 AM   #8
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Just for clarity:
SULEV (N26) = Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle
ULEV (N20)= Ultra Low Emission Vehicle

The differences are to do with legislation differences across the world, or states in your likely case. From what I recall, it is mainly to do with the aforementioned fuelling system being comprised of stainless steel.

EDIT: Just dug out a reply from BMW UK on this when I asked last year:

Quote:
"The US have strict emission laws that are actively enforced with road side checks forming part of their enforcement agencies daily routine activities. Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicles have measures in place that ensure compliance with the US law.

For example in the rest of the world where it is acceptable, rubber fuel hoses are commonly employed in vehicle fuel systems. However in the US metal pipes are specified as these ensure that fuel vapour and fuel are less likely to be emitted into the environment.
Road side spot checks carried out in the US also mean that emission reducing systems need a robust means of being tested, this not being a requirement in the rest of the world at present. The US version and ECE version of the N20 commonly employ a fuel tank venting system. This system is designed to route fuel vapour formed in the fuel tank in to the engines intake system where it is combusted. However in the US model the system needs a way of being tested for leaks to the atmosphere. Therefore an additional valve is installed in the fuel tank venting system that closes off the venting lines so as a specific vacuum can be applied to them and through this action leaks in the system lines can be detected."
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      09-08-2013, 07:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikneo View Post
Easiest way would be to look at the model code from your vehicle inquiry listing. Code 133O and 133Y are for the SULEV N26. Does anyone know if dyno plots for the N26 are available yet? My CA put down 133Y (South African SULEV 328i) for my build without so much as mentioning it I just hope its got the same underrated performance as the N20.
mine says 133X....so what does that mean? N20 or 26?

edit: looked up via bmwvin.com....i am n26
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      09-08-2013, 07:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john08135i View Post
OK mine shows N20 but the waste-gate looks electric?
Just to update everyone else, they started putting in the electric boost solenoid on N20's too. My July/12 build is one for example.

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      09-08-2013, 08:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john08135i View Post
Im not sure.. i heard only california and other strict emissions states got the N26 which has a more controlled electronic blow off valve.
The pic is of the new N26 valve setup.

Seriously though it has NO turbo lag.
+1

Drove a luxury line for 400 miles, NO turbo lag depends on how you drive it. It was still there, quite a bit of it if you are sensitive enough. The car had N26 going by bmwvin.com
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      09-08-2013, 08:38 PM   #12
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What does 133N mean? Anyone know?
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      09-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogalu View Post
What does 133N mean? Anyone know?
F30 328i N20 for 2013.
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      09-09-2013, 05:34 AM   #14
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FYI, loaners nationwide are N26 I believe. This is only anecdotal, but the VIN decoders I've run on loaners (simple curiosity) have stated to be N26's. I say nationwide because I live in Michigan and believe you me we are the complete, 100% opposite of a strict emissions state. We have zero testing or checks.

As for lag, they all have lag. If you are at a light in an N26 8AT in sport and manual mode (just to eliminate as much "slack" from the response as possible) and go straight to WOT, the car will slowly pick up to ~2K then really take off.

There may be some minor difference in calibration that gives the facade of a less present lag effect, but if you hold all variables from a dead stop to WOT at the same light, etc., etc., they're extremely close.
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      09-09-2013, 09:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanceman View Post
FYI, loaners nationwide are N26 I believe. This is only anecdotal, but the VIN decoders I've run on loaners (simple curiosity) have stated to be N26's. I say nationwide because I live in Michigan and believe you me we are the complete, 100% opposite of a strict emissions state. We have zero testing or checks.

As for lag, they all have lag. If you are at a light in an N26 8AT in sport and manual mode (just to eliminate as much "slack" from the response as possible) and go straight to WOT, the car will slowly pick up to ~2K then really take off.

There may be some minor difference in calibration that gives the facade of a less present lag effect, but if you hold all variables from a dead stop to WOT at the same light, etc., etc., they're extremely close.
The lag you describe might be more the trans calibration than the turbo. My 6mt does not drive like that. Or maybe it is how I drive it, from a dig I often slip the clutch a bit to get a smoother start.
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      09-10-2013, 08:38 AM   #16
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I completely concur with the OP!

My wife's n26 F30 328i with automatic feels so much quicker than my 6-speed n20. To my butt dyno the n26 has less perceptible lag from a stop, and more immediate throttle tip-in. Part of it can be attributed to the 8-speed which doesn't fall off boost during upshifts. But the difference in feel is pretty significant.
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      09-10-2013, 11:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocohead View Post
I completely concur with the OP!

My wife's n26 F30 328i with automatic feels so much quicker than my 6-speed n20. To my butt dyno the n26 has less perceptible lag from a stop, and more immediate throttle tip-in. Part of it can be attributed to the 8-speed which doesn't fall off boost during upshifts. But the difference in feel is pretty significant.
+1, the F30 6MT with turbo and flat power band(that drops off) is harder to time the shifts than previous N/A non-turbo MT(e.g. E39, E46). It takes some time to get used to the sound and power delivery of the I4 turbo. The 8AT hides all that from the users. But I am sure any MT driver is up to the challenge.
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      09-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #18
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Yes. I am kind of bothered by 2 things:
1. Vague clutch engagement point
2. No boost until 1300-1500 RPM.
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      12-11-2013, 12:01 PM   #19
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I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference in the emissions profile is between the N20 & N26?
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      12-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehecht View Post
I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference in the emissions profile is between the N20 & N26?
Quote:
ULEV is an acronym for Ultra Low Emission Vehicle. ULEVs emit emissions that are 50 percent cleaner than the current average year's models. ULEVs take the LEV, Low Emission Vehicle, standard a step further. The LEV rating was required on all new cars sold in California starting in 2004.
Quote:
SULEV is an acronym for Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. SULEVs are 90 percent cleaner than the current average year's models. SULEVs emit substantially lower levels of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides and particulate matter than conventional vehicles. The SULEV standard steps up the ULEV, Ultra Low Emission Vehicle standard.
What I wonder is why they just don't do what many of the car manufacturers are doing and make them all the same and just have one 50 state rating. Logistically it would seem to be simplier and more cost effective.

Another interesting find

Quote:
Some PZEVs fall into this category by default--buy a Toyota Prius in CA and fuel it up, it's a PZEV. Drive east and fuel it up over the next 2,500 miles and it's an SULEV, since CA's low sulfur gas formulations are not available everywhere.
This would explain why a n20 and n26 in california have a different smog rating on the epa fuel economy site (6 and 8 respectively) than another state both had a 5 rating. Sulfur in the gas, which competes with oxygen in the catalyst.

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      12-11-2013, 02:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

SULEV is an acronym for Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. SULEVs are 90 percent cleaner than the current average year's models. SULEVs emit substantially lower levels of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides and particulate matter than conventional vehicles. The SULEV standard steps up the ULEV, Ultra Low Emission Vehicle standard.

This would explain why a n20 and n26 in california have a different smog rating on the epa fuel economy site (6 and 8 respectively) than another state both had a 5 rating. Sulfur in the gas, which competes with oxygen in the catalyst.
Thanks, that is very helpful. Could you post the URL of that EPA fuel economy site where you found the comparison between the N20 & N26? I looked but couldn't find it. Thanks!
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      12-11-2013, 02:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehecht View Post
Thanks, that is very helpful. Could you post the URL of that EPA fuel economy site where you found the comparison between the N20 & N26? I looked but couldn't find it. Thanks!
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
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