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      10-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #23
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      10-30-2012, 05:53 PM   #24
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      10-31-2012, 08:43 AM   #25
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I too am surprised at the lack of 335i's. Maybe peeps are waiting for the couple, as there were certainly more e92 335i's than e90's.
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      10-31-2012, 09:13 AM   #26
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I posted quite a while ago that when I drove the 335i with a manual I was totally underwhelmed and thought I'd left the handbrake on!

Lacks torque, the power delivery is too artificially linear for a blown engine, or at least for my tastes and it didn't sound particularly exciting either.

The 30D, on the other hand, "feels" much quicker at any speed in any gear and even sounds better - it has a much more gruff and purposeful engine note to it

DaveyC - I know you think you'll miss the sound of the gorgeous BMW 6-pot but you'd miss it on the 335i now anyway because it's blown and not NA. The character's all gone Have a gander at YouTube for F30 335i and 330D vids and listen to the sounds yourself.

Oh, and don't bother listening to all the exhaust note vids because it's a trick sports exhaust and it doesn't sound like that in the car
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      10-31-2012, 09:17 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
I posted quite a while ago that when I drove the 335i with a manual I was totally underwhelmed and thought I'd left the handbrake on!

Lacks torque, the power delivery is too artificially linear for a blown engine, or at least for my tastes and it didn't sound particularly exciting either.

The 30D, on the other hand, "feels" much quicker at any speed in any gear and even sounds better - it has a much more gruff and purposeful engine note to it

DaveyC - I know you think you'll miss the sound of the gorgeous BMW 6-pot but you'd miss it on the 335i now anyway because it's blown and not NA. The character's all gone Have a gander at YouTube for F30 335i and 330D vids and listen to the sounds yourself.

Oh, and don't bother listening to all the exhaust note vids because it's a trick sports exhaust and it doesn't sound like that in the car
Cmon...how on earth does a 330d sounds better than 335i??
Not saying the 330d sounds bad...but really

Would also say they are very torquey....
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      10-31-2012, 09:37 AM   #28
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Inside the car, yeah. The 30D is more bassy, more purposeful and a bit more manly. It's not as clear cut as it used to be. Modern DI turbo petrol engines sound like diesels at tick over due to the high pressure fuel pumps ticking away, the exhaust note is destroyed by the turbines in the turbo and then artificially reproduced using trick exhausts and so there's bugger all in it. Inside the cabin, where you can't hear the trick exhaust, it just sounds a bit lame unless you rev the tits off it and yes, it has a nice induction note above 5000rpm but that's a lot of money to pay for a nice noise in fuel alone

In "normal" driving, the modern 30D is quicker, meaner and sounds better than the 35i. It's just a sign of the times

In full reheat attack mode the 35i is quicker, meaner and sounds better but that's like 1% of time spent in the car

Oh, and as for the torque ... it all depends on what you're used to. I had this same conversation with all the uber-defensive 35i driving yanks who think they're driving a Porsche but all I've ever said is that I felt the 335i lacked torque. I got from my MPS into the 335i and thought I had the handbrake on. Yes, mine's modified and yes, mine has a more lumpy torque curve and the 335i has been weirdly designed to not feel blown but I felt it lacked punch and lacked character. I expected more from a turbocharged 3.0l six-pot. Just my experience innit Now the 30D... that baby feels quick all the time
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      10-31-2012, 10:05 AM   #29
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So i like the noise in the 330d, but it is gruff, more corse, but at least does have a nice 6cyl twang. More Manly...hmmm dont think so - its more Diesely yes.

Maybe my M135 is different, but it totally does not sounds like a diesel on startup! In fact the 330d on cold startup was more diesel than I liked until it warmed up.

Same applies for what Clarkson calls it "Diesel Tingle". The vibrations, even from the 6cyl are far more than the ulta smooth 35i.

Torque, get you point - and that is the strongest benefit of the black stuff. Although with cheaper Unleaded and the 335i achieving low-mid 40's the fuel difference is not a great as you may think.

out of interest, what is the list price difference between the two as well?
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      10-31-2012, 10:23 AM   #30
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There's bugger all in it on the price. IIRC the 35i is a little more money but not a lot

Oh, and tomorrow morning when you start your car. Get out and listen to the engine. Sounds like a diesel

And don't forget, we're comparing the 335i with the 330D, not the 135i The 135i is a lot less car and is bound to have different character
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      10-31-2012, 10:35 AM   #31
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I've got a 335i coupe on order. It's my first 3 series having had 2 5 series in the past - my kids are all grown up now and I figured I could get away with something sportier!

I'm a little confused - it's due to be delivered in early Jan to the dealership so I should get it a week later.

Will it be an F30 model? It sounds crazy to ask this after ordering but I hadn't appreciated that the coupe and the saloon were out of step in bodyshapes - at least that's how it seems from BMW's website.

Which engine? I assume the N55 ?HP but I read something somewhere that suggested the coupe was still using the N54

Would welcome some clarity if anyone understands all this please!

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      10-31-2012, 10:36 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by MaestroAl
There's bugger all in it on the price. IIRC the 35i is a little more money but not a lot

Oh, and tomorrow morning when you start your car. Get out and listen to the engine. Sounds like a diesel

And don't forget, we're comparing the 335i with the 330D, not the 135i The 135i is a lot less car and is bound to have different character
Go on...explain the lot less car ?

Surprised the 335i didn't sound good on the inside, as mine does.

Pete - how is the F11?

Will indeed listen to my car outside tomorrow, assume you mean by the engine not exhaust (remember my cold start vid )
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      10-31-2012, 10:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by simon_e
I've got a 335i coupe on order. It's my first 3 series having had 2 5 series in the past - my kids are all grown up now and I figured I could get away with something sportier!

I'm a little confused - it's due to be delivered in early Jan to the dealership so I should get it a week later.

Will it be an F30 model? It sounds crazy to ask this after ordering but I hadn't appreciated that the coupe and the saloon were out of step in bodyshapes - at least that's how it seems from BMW's website.

Which engine? I assume the N55 ?HP but I read something somewhere that suggested the coupe was still using the N54

Would welcome some clarity if anyone understands all this please!

Simon
Unless I am mistaken it will be the old e92 shape.

I think the new F32 coupe is out next year sometime, certainly after jan.

Check with your dealer to be sure.
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      10-31-2012, 10:39 AM   #34
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As in ... it's a lot less car. You know - there's less car. It's a 1 series which is basically a hot hatch, right? Not the newer, bigger, fatter, softer F30. I just meant you're always gonna have less car between you and the chassis; between you and the dynamics and the engine and whatnot so it'll always be a more visceral experience, like for like.

You'll hear more of the induction note because you're closer to the front with less "stuff" between you and the intakes. You'll hear more of the echaust note because you're closer to the rear ... 'cause it's smaller. You know: it's just a lot less car
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      10-31-2012, 11:00 AM   #35
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Unless I am mistaken it will be the old e92 shape.

I think the new F32 coupe is out next year sometime, certainly after jan.

Check with your dealer to be sure.
I've dug out the paperwork and you're right - it's the E92 with an N55 engine. Is there any major upgrade in the F30 saloon that I ought to hold on for... I suspect it's not actually built yet so is it worth putting a hold on and waiting for the F32?
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      10-31-2012, 11:06 AM   #36
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I've dug out the paperwork and you're right - it's the E92 with an N55 engine. Is there any major upgrade in the F30 saloon that I ought to hold on for... I suspect it's not actually built yet so is it worth putting a hold on and waiting for the F32?
The F30 is an evolution, although not revolutionary upgrade.

Is it better, i think so.

What discount did you get on the e92, once the F32 gets closer the run out deals will go up to 20%.

Dopper on here did that with this e90 330d as the F30 was luanched and got an epic deal.
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      10-31-2012, 11:29 AM   #37
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The F30 is an evolution, although not revolutionary upgrade.

Is it better, i think so.

What discount did you get on the e92, once the F32 gets closer the run out deals will go up to 20%.

Dopper on here did that with this e90 330d as the F30 was luanched and got an epic deal.
Think it ended up at c. 16% discount on list. I called the dealer and he reckons the F32 is best part of a year away still Q4 2013 - he would say that I suppose...
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      10-31-2012, 12:28 PM   #38
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The F30 is an evolution, although not revolutionary upgrade.

Is it better, i think so.

What discount did you get on the e92, once the F32 gets closer the run out deals will go up to 20%.

Dopper on here did that with this e90 330d as the F30 was luanched and got an epic deal.
Think it ended up at c. 16% discount on list. I called the dealer and he reckons the F32 is best part of a year away still Q4 2013 - he would say that I suppose...
Fab discount and sounds like the run our discount is there already!
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      10-31-2012, 12:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Inside the car, yeah. The 30D is more bassy, more purposeful and a bit more manly. It's not as clear cut as it used to be. Modern DI turbo petrol engines sound like diesels at tick over due to the high pressure fuel pumps ticking away, the exhaust note is destroyed by the turbines in the turbo and then artificially reproduced using trick exhausts and so there's bugger all in it. Inside the cabin, where you can't hear the trick exhaust, it just sounds a bit lame unless you rev the tits off it and yes, it has a nice induction note above 5000rpm but that's a lot of money to pay for a nice noise in fuel alone

In "normal" driving, the modern 30D is quicker, meaner and sounds better than the 35i. It's just a sign of the times

In full reheat attack mode the 35i is quicker, meaner and sounds better but that's like 1% of time spent in the car

Oh, and as for the torque ... it all depends on what you're used to. I had this same conversation with all the uber-defensive 35i driving yanks who think they're driving a Porsche but all I've ever said is that I felt the 335i lacked torque. I got from my MPS into the 335i and thought I had the handbrake on. Yes, mine's modified and yes, mine has a more lumpy torque curve and the 335i has been weirdly designed to not feel blown but I felt it lacked punch and lacked character. I expected more from a turbocharged 3.0l six-pot. Just my experience innit Now the 30D... that baby feels quick all the time
My findings also, the 330D feels quick "anywhere in the rev range" the 335i saloon I test drove was "Flat" till it was above 5/6K RPM, no torque as such. Here in the UK for me anyway the diesel excels well beyond the 335i all day long.
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If interested I will give a bit of info.
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      10-31-2012, 12:41 PM   #40
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Surprised the 335i didn't sound good on the inside, as mine does.

Pete - how is the F11?

Will indeed listen to my car outside tomorrow, assume you mean by the engine not exhaust (remember my cold start vid )
My F11 is no way sounding like a diesel on start up, there is hardy any DI sound at all from the engine. It is much more refined on start up that any diesel, and once warm no comparison in any way to any N57 diesel I've driven.

Both my son and I drive BMW 3.0d engines (single and bi-turbo) and when I took my son out in the F11, from start up he was saying "now this is what a BMW engine should be like". It is the near silence, the refinement, vibration free running throughout the rev range.

Now I totally go along with the diesel engine performance feel, been there, driven loads of them. The 330d/530d have a good engine, I don't think anyone will dispute that fact. The 335i/535i engine delivery is not a 'second best' IMO, 'different' as I've said before, but with years of BMW driving it is one of the best BMW engines I've ever driven, (we are not comparing M-cars here) and oozes BMW refinement. But I've been spoiled with a BMW 4.4 V8, that may partly explain why a petrol has more appeal to me, even with the excellent BMW diesel engines.

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      10-31-2012, 12:51 PM   #41
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My F11 is no way sounding like a diesel on start up, there is hardy any DI sound at all from the engine. It is much more refined on start up that any diesel, and once warm no comparison in any way to any N57 diesel I've driven.

Both my son and I drive BMW 3.0d engines (single and bi-turbo) and when I took my son out in the F11, from start up he was saying "now this is what a BMW engine should be like". It is the near silence, the refinement, vibration free running throughout the rev range.

Now I totally go along with the diesel engine performance feel, been there, driven loads of them. The 330d/530d have a good engine, I don't think anyone will dispute that fact. The 335i/535i engine delivery is not a 'second best' IMO, 'different' as I've said before, but with years of BMW driving it is one of the best BMW engines I've ever driven, (we are not comparing M-cars here) and oozes BMW refinement. But I've been spoiled with a BMW 4.4 V8, that may partly explain why a petrol has more appeal to me, even with the excellent BMW diesel engines.

HighlandPete
See where you are coming from with the Petrol engined BMW's, Petrol power is super smooth in the delivery and linear. Having the M3 which needed revs to go and then having the 550i M Sport F10 Saloon,the torque difference was immense, the 550i was almost diesel like in it's laded back delivery, two petrol cars but powered in different ways. I must be getting old but I just love the feel off torque, effortless grunt is my thing.
BUT I still may just buy the new M3 when it comes.
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      10-31-2012, 01:13 PM   #42
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I must be getting old but I just love the feel off torque, effortless grunt is my thing.
Seems I'm having a 'last dash' at the petrol.

I am in a position to choose the engine type, no tax implications, low mileage and additional petrol costs not a big deal in the larger picture.

I was going for a 530d when I first looked at the 5-series, but once driving the 535i was bitten. There is definitely no lack in 'real' performance, compared to the diesel, just different in how we extract it.

If my situation was different and I was driving higher miles, the diesel would be on the cards. Makes total sense, even if there is a bit of compromise. We then look at the virtues of what we have... 'torque' then has a special place.

To be honest, I don't expect many to choose a 335i these days. For many that would be financial suicide, even if they desired the petrol.

IMO, cost has a lot to do with our purchase decisions, and these days 'revs' cost money. Even if they feel good.

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      10-31-2012, 01:51 PM   #43
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Fab discount and sounds like the run our discount is there already!
He also told me that there was a chance I'd get it this side of Christmas - which would be fantastic.

By the way - in answer to the OP - it is an M Sport

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      10-31-2012, 06:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Inside the car, yeah. The 30D is more bassy, more purposeful and a bit more manly. It's not as clear cut as it used to be. Modern DI turbo petrol engines sound like diesels at tick over due to the high pressure fuel pumps ticking away, the exhaust note is destroyed by the turbines in the turbo and then artificially reproduced using trick exhausts and so there's bugger all in it. Inside the cabin, where you can't hear the trick exhaust, it just sounds a bit lame unless you rev the tits off it and yes, it has a nice induction note above 5000rpm but that's a lot of money to pay for a nice noise in fuel alone

In "normal" driving, the modern 30D is quicker, meaner and sounds better than the 35i. It's just a sign of the times

In full reheat attack mode the 35i is quicker, meaner and sounds better but that's like 1% of time spent in the car

Oh, and as for the torque ... it all depends on what you're used to. I had this same conversation with all the uber-defensive 35i driving yanks who think they're driving a Porsche but all I've ever said is that I felt the 335i lacked torque. I got from my MPS into the 335i and thought I had the handbrake on. Yes, mine's modified and yes, mine has a more lumpy torque curve and the 335i has been weirdly designed to not feel blown but I felt it lacked punch and lacked character. I expected more from a turbocharged 3.0l six-pot. Just my experience innit Now the 30D... that baby feels quick all the time

You have a weird taste!....

Serious question: do you like Justin Bieber?

Unless, its HotCoupe's 335D (modded exhaust)....I can't see how a std 330D sounds better than a 335i.

The way the n54 delivers the power is one of its best attributes!...good torque at low revs to give you that "kick" and power throughout the rev range.....especially mid range....definitely the diesel will have more torque but sorry mate, 335i engine all day long over a 330D!!! ( I'm talking about engine performance and noise only....reliability is another topic! )

330d quicker than 335i...
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