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      11-15-2012, 11:49 AM   #89
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I gotcha. It just seems like i see a lot of "well you Americans". When truth be told ,although there are cultural differences, most people around the world are the same. Just trying to get through life the best way they know how. As for as the 328 goes, you should be proud of it , its a very nice car.I've gotten that "look" ( y0u know what I mean..the,I'm better then you cuz my car is newer) when I'm out in my E46. I've gotten to the point where i just shake my head and laugh....if they only knew what was home lurking in my garage...but then again who cares

that's when you smoke up their windshield / watch them cry because it got dirty....its like back in elementary school - step on those new jordans that kid has on!
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      11-15-2012, 12:42 PM   #90
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I'd rather have a 335i with every option

I don't think I'm a better person because of my car. I just enjoy really nice things. And trouncing boy racers who think the big muffler on their Civic will help them.
Yeah, everyone would rather have that, but it was more bout showing how I would choose when only given/having these options- related to people driving around in a basic top model laughing at the ones with a practically fully equipped mid-level models.

Good for you, trounce on.

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      11-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #91
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That's the same bit I don't get. All this "status symbol" nonsense of a 3 series. It's the tenth biggest selling car in the UK this year. Not the tenth biggest saloon or luxury or anything: the tenth biggest seller of all cars. that is not exclusive. The 3 series is the new Mondeo over here - it's the new Clitoris*. Owning a 3 series does not buy you status. Maybe a well appointed 5 series but not a 3; same goes for an A4 or a Merc C Class.
The answer there is simple mathematics.

If you are wealthy and are looking for a $50,000 imported luxury car to impress others you basically have two choices: BMW 3 and Mercedes C

If you are not quite wealthy and are trying to show others that you've made a little bit of money, you have multiple choices: Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac, Acura

If you don't have any money you have many choices: Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevrolet, Buick, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai, and on and on.

There are simply many more choices at lower price points then there are for those of us looking for the status symbols. Therefore more 3 Series are sold than some Mazda because the BMW sits in a group of 2 whereas the Mazda sits in a group of 20.

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      11-15-2012, 02:05 PM   #92
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And obviously, I have sooo much money I can buy, not lease, a 328i here in Sweden packed with the things I want and drive it AS MUCH as I want. No giving it up in 3 years, that´s how wealthy I am that I can just enjoy it for as long as I want and see those Benjamins fly away...
Leasing costs more than buying.

It's not like it the end of three years we give up our cars and stop driving. We go get another lease. So in a 12 year span, I will have leased four cars at a monthly payment averaging $550.

And in that same 12 year span, you will have purchased two cars and a monthly payment averaging $650 but you will of had 4 whole years where you made no payments at all not to mention the residual value on the first car you traded in for the second one.

People who buy cars keep them for a long time, have a span of several years where they make no payments at all, and count on their value at the time of trade-in.

People who lease cars understand that they are locked in at a high monthly payment indefinitely and never have to worry about trade-ins or the few dollars we would save by driving old cars.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

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      11-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #93
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The most obnoxious American here drives, and leases, a 328i. I bought a 335i because I want more horsepower. When did more HP become something to criticize?
The 328i is so powerful and balanced that it makes it look foolish to add even more power to it.

9/10ths of a second? A better fart from the exhaust pipes? Better acceleration from 90 MPH to 120 MPH when we live in a country with 65 MPH speed limits and spend most of our time driving at 28 MPH on residential roads?

I live in Bergen County New Jersey, the BMW 3 Series capital of the world. 90% of the 335i's I see on the roads every day are driven by 50 year old women. We're making a big deal out of nothing here.

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      11-15-2012, 03:12 PM   #94
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The answer there is simple mathematics.

If you are wealthy and are looking for a $50,000 imported luxury car to impress others you basically have two choices: BMW 3 and Mercedes C
You see, this is where you are unique in the world. I don't know a single wealthy person who owns a BMW 3 series. 7 series, S Class, Range Rover, Porsche, yeah. But not a 3 series. The point is that wealthy people don't buy $50k cars to impress people. Wannabee wealthy people who can't afford a proper car buy a 3 series to try to fit in maybe but you're a looooong way from luxury and showing off territory in a 3 series. Your average sales rep drives a 3 series. More people drive them than drive Mondeos now. It's just not a status symbol. It's a "nearly made it" symbol at best
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      11-15-2012, 03:29 PM   #95
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I live in Bergen County New Jersey, the BMW 3 Series capital of the world.

BJ
Oddly enough, I moved from Bergen County to the Denver/Boulder area...the Subaru capital of the world.
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      11-15-2012, 04:14 PM   #96
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You see, this is where you are unique in the world. I don't know a single wealthy person who owns a BMW 3 series. 7 series, S Class, Range Rover, Porsche, yeah. But not a 3 series. The point is that wealthy people don't buy $50k cars to impress people. Wannabee wealthy people who can't afford a proper car buy a 3 series to try to fit in maybe but you're a looooong way from luxury and showing off territory in a 3 series. Your average sales rep drives a 3 series. More people drive them than drive Mondeos now. It's just not a status symbol. It's a "nearly made it" symbol at best


I don't know any wealthy ppl who buy 3 series - maybe for their kid. LOL
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      11-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #97
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In the UK, BMW 3 and 5 series cars are considered small executive and executive cars respectively. In other words: rep mobiles. 6 Series and above are considered to be in the luxury segment.

The 3 Series outsells the Ford Mondeo (the original rep mobile) in the UK.

I am restricted by my parking space at work to a car no bigger than the 3 Series. I would have preferred to get the 6 Series 640d M Sport Gran Coupé, but fortunately or unfortunately it would not fit. But I am more than happy with my purchase, especially as the 3 Series is more space efficient, has a slightly bigger boot (trunk) than the Gran Coupé and would be easier to drive and park on the crowded, narrow London roads. The money saved will go towards my favourite charity: ME!
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      11-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #98
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BJ, what are the cons of the 335i? It doesn't seem like handling is a priority to you, and that's the only argument I could personally make for getting a 328i instead. If you see the 3 series as a status symbol (which I, like several others who have posted, think is a little laughable), why not be a little more status-y and get the badge with a bigger number? The extra few grand it costs is just chump change, after all, right?
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      11-15-2012, 05:02 PM   #99
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In the US it's a little odd...the 328's dominate the market, like 95% of the market here. 335's are about $5k-8k more, out the door, and that's why some feel it's a status "symbol".

I don't think any car outside of a Porsche 911 Turbo // Ferrari // Lambo whatever are status symbols.

To further the dilution, regarding someone's post about all the clitoris' in UK driving 3-series, is the fact the BMWUSA leases HEAVILY, and then resell's these 2-3 years leases at significant discounts, with 0.9% financing. YES, pretty much anyone can end up in a BMW at some point in their life in the US. The american dream, i'm sure.

Net net, the F30 RIGHT NOW in the US, with limited options and a new introduction, holds "status" for us Americans because the Lease rights are higher, and there are NONE in the used market since it's only 5 months old.
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      11-15-2012, 05:10 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
You see, this is where you are unique in the world. I don't know a single wealthy person who owns a BMW 3 series. 7 series, S Class, Range Rover, Porsche, yeah. But not a 3 series. The point is that wealthy people don't buy $50k cars to impress people. Wannabee wealthy people who can't afford a proper car buy a 3 series to try to fit in maybe but you're a looooong way from luxury and showing off territory in a 3 series. Your average sales rep drives a 3 series. More people drive them than drive Mondeos now. It's just not a status symbol. It's a "nearly made it" symbol at best
We're not talking about what you deem to be "wealthy" or myself either, for that matter. Sounds like you and I have a net worth in the multi-millions, live in exclusive neighborhoods, have wealthy friends.

I'm talking about the people who make $100,000 USD+ a year. That can be a young person with a good job in a big city or an older person with a good job in a lesser community. In the US, the average household income is $49,000 USD a year. Those people cannot afford a $600 monthly payment on a car. Their average mortgage payment is near that amount.

I live 20 minutes from Manhattan in a 3,000 square foot $1.5M USD home. Perhaps you live in London with a $1.5M USD flat. When you and I refer to "people trying to look wealthy in a 3 Series" we're not judging them by our experience; we're judging them by theirs.

As for myself, I drive a 3 Series because it's the least expensive way I can drive a safe, fun car that's socially acceptable by the wealthy crowd I run with. They drive $140,000 CLS' and I drive a $50,000 328i. They view me as smart and financially responsible, not flashy.

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      11-15-2012, 05:11 PM   #101
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No one on the road sees an F30 335i as a status symbol, vs. the 328i. 99.99% of other drivers can't tell or wouldn't notice the difference.
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      11-15-2012, 05:14 PM   #102
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I don't know any wealthy ppl who buy 3 series - maybe for their kid. LOL
Here we go again.

You live in Los Angeles, the other guy lives in London, I live adjacent to Manhattan.

I'm talking about the 3 Series representing a status symbol to the average American, the familiy of 5 bringing in $49,000 a year. Those people can't touch a $549 3 Series. That's who's buying the $149 Kia. To them, to those people, we're rich and spoiled.

Drive your car out of LA, go to some low-end neighborhood, pull up in your BMW into a McDonald's parking lot, and ask someone "Excuse me, am I rich?" and see what they say to you.

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      11-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #103
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I gotcha. It just seems like i see a lot of "well you Americans". When truth be told ,although there are cultural differences, most people around the world are the same.
Oh please, stop acting so pedestrian just to make the Brits think you're a "good guy".

You live in upstate New York. We cityfolk look down upon you as much as we look down upon the British.

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      11-15-2012, 05:20 PM   #104
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BJ, what are the cons of the 335i? It doesn't seem like handling is a priority to you, and that's the only argument I could personally make for getting a 328i instead. If you see the 3 series as a status symbol (which I, like several others who have posted, think is a little laughable), why not be a little more status-y and get the badge with a bigger number? The extra few grand it costs is just chump change, after all, right?
The target audience of humiliation is an average person in an average neighborhood driving an average car and making an average of $49,000 a year.

Those people don't know the difference between a 335i and a 328i so there's no increase in status for having it.

And if we wanted to impress those making $250,000 a year and up, the 3 Series isn't the car for that. I drive mine because it's practical and the bare minimum necessary to keep up with my $700,000 a year crowd; to them, I'm driving a very nice Camry. I've got better places to put my money than into a car, but I can't be seen in a Toyota.

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      11-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
The answer there is simple mathematics.

If you are wealthy and are looking for a $50,000 imported luxury car to impress others you basically have two choices: BMW 3 and Mercedes C

If you are not quite wealthy and are trying to show others that you've made a little bit of money, you have multiple choices: Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac, Acura

If you don't have any money you have many choices: Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevrolet, Buick, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai, and on and on.

There are simply many more choices at lower price points then there are for those of us looking for the status symbols. Therefore more 3 Series are sold than some Mazda because the BMW sits in a group of 2 whereas the Mazda sits in a group of 20.

BJ
Bolt,,this ( & other things) is where you lose me. You continue to talk about people buying 3 series as being "wealthy" and then you go on to list cars that"less wealthy people "drive all, of which easily can push 50K.
I absolutely love the 3's I own , but by no means are they symbol of "wealth" .There is a reason the 3 is BMW's best selling car around the world.Yes the status symbol has a lot to do with it , but so does the price.The entry price is pretty low. A 328 starts at 35K.(Caddy CTS 35K, Lexus IS350 35K,Audi A4 32k, all base price Drive through Miami, parts of California or NJ and they are as common as a Honda Accord. To anyone else reading this, please don't take it that I'm bashing the 328(I'm ready to plunk my $ down on a 4 series as soon as I can) I love the new 328 , but I owned a brand new 3 series when I was about 24 and I never thought it made me appear "wealthy" as BoltJames seems to insist and he's supposedly 50 and is worth 4 million
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      11-15-2012, 05:41 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
Oh please, stop acting so pedestrian just to make the Brits think you're a "good guy".

You live in upstate New York. We cityfolk look down upon you as much as we look down upon the British.


BJ
I just didn't want another forum member even thinking I had anything in common with you, since you seem to try to speak for all American BMW owners. Look down on me all you want , thats what you seem to do with everyone. Because I choose to have a home and a business in upstate doesn't mean thats the only residence I have. Once again you assume. I pity you being stuck in Manhattan adjacent


The 328i is so powerful and balanced that it makes it look foolish to add even more power to it.


BJ

So wait BJ I thought you were an "elitist" and you hated people that talked about how the car handles and its power and balance, labeling them "Faux-Enthusiasts" ,,,especially if they drove anything more then a 328 so which are you now?? a Faux-Elitist"???
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      11-15-2012, 06:36 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
The answer there is simple mathematics.

If you are wealthy and are looking for a $50,000 imported luxury car to impress others you basically have two choices: BMW 3 and Mercedes C


BJ
Whoa!!! I think we have different definitions of wealthy! I have a 335i and I still feel poor. We have a car at the lower end of the spectrum. I prob wont consider my self wealthy until I can buy like Pagani or Bugatti with my pocket change!
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      11-15-2012, 07:00 PM   #108
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i dont think the 335 is any more a status symbol than the 328.

honestly even the m3 is not much more of a status symbol. i mean logically if you wanted to show your status , you'd be showing it to everyone around you . the only people who really think a 335 is higher status than a 328 socially is well other BMW enthusiasts. same with the m3.

i think honestly most regular people see the m3 as like a riced out regular 3 series (especially in LA where you can't even really drive very fast most of the time).

i'm not saying the m3 is a bad car, but getting one for the status generally is just stupid. if it were all about status you'd get a 5 or a 740 or something (i think you could just barely get a 740 for the cost of an m3..)

i mean a 335i is faster than 328i. and a m3 is faster than both. but for status purposes 95% cant tell the difference. so if its just about status you are just pissing on other BMW owners.


we actually had a debate about this at work. and the guy who is my boss by like 3 levels (boss' boss' boss) said it best. he said something along the lines of, i know an M3 is a great car, but a 911 also drives well and they cost close enough in price that if you get the 911 you get a great driving car AND a car that is obviously in another class, instead of a car which is really a hugely modified version of a car that every housewife in LA drives. (his other point was that he thought people who bought GT-Rs in LA that dont track the car are stupid since you'd also be better off with the 911 given the whole, well its still a nissan status issue)

and he had a good point, if the status was an important factor in your car choice, well you'd skip every higher spec version of any car and just get the next car that obviously was in another body style.

so i suppose my conclusion is the 335i is for people who want uh... a 328i that is faster that has a bigger engine that sounds different. or people who want to look down at fellow bmw owners since those are the only people who might even care.....

i did know a guy who bought a C350 because my friend had a C300 and he liked the C300. and we knew he got it because it was "the bigger number" and my other friend with the C300 was like... well yes i know his car is faster, but i honestly don't care plus i have this pile of money left over. but most people just saw them as 2 guys with entry level C classes other than us car guys. C350 guy was a moron douchebag

Last edited by hans007; 11-15-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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      11-15-2012, 07:34 PM   #109
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The target audience of humiliation is an average person in an average neighborhood driving an average car and making an average of $49,000 a year.

Those people don't know the difference between a 335i and a 328i so there's no increase in status for having it.

And if we wanted to impress those making $250,000 a year and up, the 3 Series isn't the car for that. I drive mine because it's practical and the bare minimum necessary to keep up with my $700,000 a year crowd; to them, I'm driving a very nice Camry. I've got better places to put my money than into a car, but I can't be seen in a Toyota.

BJ
I live 15 minutes from Westport, and 2 minutes from Wilton, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about...

However, since I work for a modest american corporation, a 3-series is close to "bell curve" for the parking lot; there are a few porsches, a ton of toyota's, but the BMW falls into the middle of the ground for my company/social circle.

I live 50 minutes from Manhattan, so BJ and I have a "skewed" perception of wealth. My house is a POS, and it's 33% of his house...
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      11-15-2012, 07:38 PM   #110
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he said something along the lines of, i know an M3 is a great car, but a 911 also drives well and they cost close enough in price that if you get the 911 you get a great driving car AND a car that is obviously in another class, instead of a car which is really a hugely modified version of a car that every housewife in LA drives. (his other point was that he thought people who bought GT-Rs in LA that dont track the car are stupid since you'd also be better off with the 911 given the whole, well its still a nissan status issue)
your boss is totally spot on.

when i was waiting on the fence for the F30-M3, and saw the pricing, I thought to myself...$80-90k for a sporty 3-series?
the porsche dealer locally had a 2012 911 with PDK for $89k...

Then I woke up and realized the F30 offered the ability to tune up to the M3/911 levels...and I get to keep $40k in my savings account (even after minimal mods).
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