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      11-16-2012, 06:21 AM   #1
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Active Hybrid 3 - The forgotten hero?

Given it has the 335 engine with an electric motor, 306hp, 48 mpg, co2 139 and, more importantly 0-60 in around 5 seconds then why isn't it the F30 we all want?
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      11-16-2012, 06:30 AM   #2
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Given it has the 335 engine with an electric motor, 306hp, 48 mpg, co2 139 and, more importantly 0-60 in around 5 seconds then why isn't it the F30 we all want?
Because it is fat and heavy and won't produce those figures in the real world.

Apparently a Toyota Prius can do 78MPG
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      11-16-2012, 06:32 AM   #3
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Its not going to get anywhere near 48 mpg. High 30's hwy, high 20's city. Maybe 30 in the city. I have mine for a week and so far after 250 miles thats what Ive been getting. In eco pro mode its definitely sluggish. In comfort mode its quick. In sport mode its fast. The handling is good but I can feel the difference in weight between the e90 and this car. Its a good balance between luxury and sport. The e90 was more of a sports car though.
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      11-16-2012, 06:42 AM   #4
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Its not going to get anywhere near 48 mpg. High 30's hwy, high 20's city. Maybe 30 in the city. I have mine for a week and so far after 250 miles thats what Ive been getting. In eco pro mode its definitely sluggish. In comfort mode its quick. In sport mode its fast. The handling is good but I can feel the difference in weight between the e90 and this car. Its a good balance between luxury and sport. The e90 was more of a sports car though.
Nice honest review

I think the 48mpg mentioned was UK gallons 4.54 liters rather then the US 3.8 liter Gallon.

High 30's US is pretty good Question for you.....does the car 'sail' when on the motorway?
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      11-16-2012, 06:54 AM   #5
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Not sure what you mean by sail. I do notice a difference in the breaks. I can really feel the regenerative breaking. The car is very different depending on the mode its in. Like I said eco pro = slug. Sport mode very quick. I find myself in eco pro mode trying to see how high I can get the mpg. Its a game to try and feather the gas pedal to keep the car in electric mode so the gas engine does not come on. Also I keep my eye on the amount of charge in the LI battery. When the battery gets below 15 percent or so the gas engine comes back on.
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      11-16-2012, 07:07 AM   #6
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Sailing is when you are on very low throttle when travelling at reasonably high speeds, the petrol engine shuts off and allows the electric motor to keep the speed up.
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      11-16-2012, 08:31 AM   #7
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Its not going to get anywhere near 48 mpg. High 30's hwy, high 20's city. Maybe 30 in the city. I have mine for a week and so far after 250 miles thats what Ive been getting. In eco pro mode its definitely sluggish. In comfort mode its quick. In sport mode its fast. The handling is good but I can feel the difference in weight between the e90 and this car. Its a good balance between luxury and sport. The e90 was more of a sports car though.
Nice review. Concurs with my feelings that I experienced during a test drive. Eco Pro is only useful for pure stop-and-go traffic. Yes, the E90 is more of a raw experience, but the AH3 is fun when pushed.

Your mileage seems good. I'm personally hoping for 30-32mpg in city driving. Much of my commute is bumper to bumper traffic. Not many cars (that you'd want to drive) can get 30mpg in the city. Sometimes I sit without moving for 3-5 minutes in traffic. Idling a normal car for this long seems extraordinarily wasteful to me. Yes, I know all F30s have A.S.S., but I'm sure the AH3 handle this better than a normal F30, especially considering the 105F days we get here in Texas. It is so hot in the summer, the A.S.S. in my M3 would rarely come on, due to the cooling demands of the A/C.
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      11-16-2012, 08:50 AM   #8
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Seems you guys in the States have embraced it more. How do you feel about diesels?
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      11-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #9
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Seems you guys in the States have embraced it more. How do you feel about diesels?
I dont think they get a lot of choice. There are no diesel F30's available in North America.
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      11-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #10
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Seems you guys in the States have embraced it more. How do you feel about diesels?
We don't have any diesels here

Seriously, they are rare. Not just for BMW. If I'm commuting and see 500 cars on the way home, I might see 2-3 diesel cars, if I'm looking hard. Hybrids outnumber diesels here (Dallas TX area), probably 5:1.

It's a bit of chicken-and-egg for me. It doesn't seem like many of the filling stations near me even offer diesel fuel. So, I'm sure I'd have the slightest bit of anxiety just trying to find a convenient place to fill up.
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      11-16-2012, 09:00 AM   #11
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Nice review. Concurs with my feelings that I experienced during a test drive. Eco Pro is only useful for pure stop-and-go traffic. Yes, the E90 is more of a raw experience, but the AH3 is fun when pushed.

Your mileage seems good. I'm personally hoping for 30-32mpg in city driving. Much of my commute is bumper to bumper traffic. Not many cars (that you'd want to drive) can get 30mpg in the city. Sometimes I sit without moving for 3-5 minutes in traffic. Idling a normal car for this long seems extraordinarily wasteful to me. Yes, I know all F30s have A.S.S., but I'm sure the AH3 handle this better than a normal F30, especially considering the 105F days we get here in Texas. It is so hot in the summer, the A.S.S. in my M3 would rarely come on, due to the cooling demands of the A/C.

I'm sure your AH3 will fare better since the AC compressor is electric. That said, I wonder how long in stop and go traffic the batteries can keep the compressor running. You'll have very little recharge time between stops and go's.

And, as the batteries age (decay) how long will the charge last...
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      11-16-2012, 09:00 AM   #12
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.......It doesn't seem like many of the filling stations near me even offer diesel fuel. So, I'm sure I'd have the slightest bit of anxiety just trying to find a convenient place to fill up.
I think this is the biggest issue.....do you really want to be hanging out at Truck stops?
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      11-16-2012, 09:03 AM   #13
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I thought BMW were / are pushing diesels onto you guys to? Seems we are on opposite ends of the engine spectrums - We seem to be shifting somewhat back to petrol partly due to cost and perhaps in the States you will be buying diesels soon. It will be interesting.
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      11-16-2012, 09:06 AM   #14
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I'm sure your AH3 will fare better since the AC compressor is electric. That said, I wonder how long in stop and go traffic the batteries can keep the compressor running. You'll have very little recharge time between stops and go's.

And, as the batteries age (decay) how long will the charge last...
I will surely give a full report for its behavior during a hour's worth of stop-and-go!

Yes, the batteries will age over the years, and ultimately hold less charge. I've seen unofficially where the batteries have a lifetime warranty. I'm checking with BMW NA right now to confirm. I honestly doubt I'll keep the car more than 4 years, which should have minimal impact on battery performance for that age.

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I think this is the biggest issue.....do you really want to be hanging out at Truck stops?
Hey, we have some of the most incredible truck stops here in Texas! http://www.buc-ees.com/bastropvideo.html

Interstate highway trips are of course no problem for finding diesel, it's the grocery store or corner-gas stations that rarely have it. Which is where most people fill up.
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      11-16-2012, 09:10 AM   #15
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I thought BMW were / are pushing diesels onto you guys to? Seems we are on opposite ends of the engine spectrums - We seem to be shifting somewhat back to petrol partly due to cost and perhaps in the States you will be buying diesels soon. It will be interesting.
Yes, we get them next year: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766380

I'm sure it's all part of BMW NA's strategy to meet the CAFE fuel economy standards, which is fine. And it gives the diesel enthusiasts something to be happy about.

But here in the US, hybrid and plug-in vehicles have absolutely blown past diesels for those in search of a more efficient car. I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of each, but the general US car-buying public is absolutely behind hybrids, not diesels. Part of that has to do with choice. We have plentiful hybrid options from Toyota, Lexus, Ford, Honda, etc. And they are so common now, there is little fear from the first-time purchaser. Diesels still have the "dirty truck" stigma for most non-enthusiasts. Plus the aforementioned (potential) lack of fueling station options.
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      11-16-2012, 09:31 AM   #16
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I will surely give a full report for its behavior during a hour's worth of stop-and-go!

Yes, the batteries will age over the years, and ultimately hold less charge. I've seen unofficially where the batteries have a lifetime warranty. I'm checking with BMW NA right now to confirm. I honestly doubt I'll keep the car more than 4 years, which should have minimal impact on battery performance for that age.
Lifetime warranty? My guess is that will be finely worded so decay is considered normal wear and tear. LiOn and LiOn Phosphate cells can decay 10-20% per year, and heat over 100F means decay on the higher end of the scale. Hopefully they gel cooled (chemically cooled) them in addition to the fans BMW put back there.

It looks like the AH batteries are manufactured by A123Systems. The cells BMW uses are cylindrical cells, MADE IN CHINA.

And A123Systems filed for Ch11 bankruptcy. Lovely. Looks like Johnson Controls will take over. Hopefully that's for the better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123Systems
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      11-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #17
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I am surprised the litigation capital of the world have gone with Li-Ion batteries. Once set alight they can't be put out. I can see the lawsuits in the headlines already.
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      11-16-2012, 10:09 AM   #18
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Lifetime warranty? My guess is that will be finely worded so decay is considered normal wear and tear. LiOn and LiOn Phosphate cells can decay 10-20% per year, and heat over 100F means decay on the higher end of the scale. Hopefully they gel cooled (chemically cooled) them in addition to the fans BMW put back there.

It looks like the AH batteries are manufactured by A123Systems. The cells BMW uses are cylindrical cells, MADE IN CHINA.

And A123Systems filed for Ch11 bankruptcy. Lovely. Looks like Johnson Controls will take over. Hopefully that's for the better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123Systems
Yes, I'm sure the lifetime warranty makes mention of decay. I'm trying to get the exact verbiage. I saw that about A123, it's been getting a good bit of press.

Some of the things that would prevent an AH3 from being a "common sense" choice would be:

A) You plan on keeping the car 10+ years
B) Your negotiated price delta over a 335i is >$2K USD. With current promotions, it's only a $3K increase (officially). Seems like virtually all dealers would be more eager to give you an aggressive price on the AH3 vs a 335i/330d/335d, due to popularity of the petrol/diesel models vs. a "new" tech hybrid.
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      11-16-2012, 10:48 AM   #19
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Yes, I'm sure the lifetime warranty makes mention of decay. I'm trying to get the exact verbiage. I saw that about A123, it's been getting a good bit of press.

Some of the things that would prevent an AH3 from being a "common sense" choice would be:

A) You plan on keeping the car 10+ years
B) Your negotiated price delta over a 335i is >$2K USD. With current promotions, it's only a $3K increase (officially). Seems like virtually all dealers would be more eager to give you an aggressive price on the AH3 vs a 335i/330d/335d, due to popularity of the petrol/diesel models vs. a "new" tech hybrid.
In 5 years the battery will very likely need replacing. I'm curious as to $, but if I had to shoot in the dark I'll guess $2K.

Lease is perfect for this car. Purchase and out of warranty owning could be risky.
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      11-16-2012, 10:56 AM   #20
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In 5 years the battery will very likely need replacing. I'm curious as to $, but if I had to shoot in the dark I'll guess $2K.

Lease is perfect for this car. Purchase and out of warranty owning could be risky.
Where do you come up with this 5 years number? And if it's under a lifetime warranty, does it even matter? I don't see/hear/read about many Prius owners needing new batteries after 5 years. Honda/Toyota/Chevy each warranty for 8 years, so they couldn't be too concerned about it crapping out after only 5.

I do agree that anything after 10 years is probably pushing it. But how many people around here keep their cars 10 years? I may only keep this 3-4, but leasing isn't as flexible, and has more financing costs associated with it.
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      11-16-2012, 10:57 AM   #21
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LiOn batteries powered hybrids is a short term solution. Super Capacitors are a much better solution once they get the recipe right.

And, they can be recharged in seconds/minutes. Not exactly sure thats feasible with household voltage/current, but I'm sure that will be dealt with in due time.

Here's one article discussing a recent super cap breakthrough.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...h-a-dvd-burner

Tesla seems to be headed towards Super Capacitors.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-car-batteries
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      11-16-2012, 11:12 AM   #22
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Where do you come up with this 5 years number? And if it's under a lifetime warranty, does it even matter? I don't see/hear/read about many Prius owners needing new batteries after 5 years. Honda/Toyota/Chevy each warranty for 8 years, so they couldn't be too concerned about it crapping out after only 5.

I do agree that anything after 10 years is probably pushing it. But how many people around here keep their cars 10 years? I may only keep this 3-4, but leasing isn't as flexible, and has more financing costs associated with it.
You're correct. But are those Prius batteries Made in China? The Japanese are kings at LiOn battery technology.

Kidding, just giving you a little grief as you wait for your new baby to come from China....I mean Germany.
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