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      11-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #1
giorgioarmani
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DSC safety interrupts on hwwy after i changed to winter tires

DSC safety interrupts on hwwy after i changed to michelin alpin winter tires from a non bmw garage yesterday. (private garage confirmed from michelin that these tires are compatible)

And i mean total baby mode. Funny thing is, i can floor it all i want on normal roads but when i get on the highway boom nanny dsc mode.

I got the michelin alpins non runflat in the same exact dimensions as the summer runflats for the 19 inch stock wheels.

Dealer says it s cause the car is developed for runflats (especially my xdrive)and the tires are probably too soft hence the issue. wow, dsc can only work in harmony to runflats ok.. tell me thats a joke?

besides that, they dont know what it could be casue no error codes are being thrown they say, lol, and that it might be the surface of the hgwy being the culprit and that had i had them install tires which is what i 'should' have done this wouldnt be happening now.

and apparently all bmws now have runflats...

fuckin A will it ever end? can my car just be my car?

any ideas? gonna put the summers back on cause i cant drive like this...

Last edited by giorgioarmani; 11-17-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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      11-16-2012, 09:33 AM   #2
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I have had the same problem with non-studded tires on my BMW's as long as I can remember. They are so soft that the DSC/DTC thinks the car is spinning the tire or loosing grip so it is like a flashing light at everything except ECO-PRO.

My 120d was almost undrivable. Anything over 20% on the accelerator made the car lose speed!
But my F30 is pretty good. It is flashing a lot but the car still accelerate pretty good. Maybe the xDrive has a more sensitive setting on the nanny systems.
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      11-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #3
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that actually happened to me when I swapped to Winter's this week too...

I was going to post about it, but kept on thinking I was "seeing" things when the DSC light popped on.

It's odd, but yes, heavy throttle with winter tires seems to inspire DSC. I'm going to dry deflating the tires a little...(more contact patch might help??!)
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      11-16-2012, 09:53 AM   #4
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What a joke. A top quality winter mixture rubber cant be used on my huge 3 liter massive 306 hp engine cause DSC is freakin out....:/

yea i can either hope for a mild winter, turn off dsc everytime i drive, or be a bum boy and bendover for BMW and it's business deals with their 'recommended' partners and get run flats. screw runflats. funny cause they push the bmw road side assit on you, then they give you runflats....

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      11-16-2012, 09:57 AM   #5
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I don't think that run flats would perform so much better.

If you have a good studless tire the rubber at the surface is so soft the you can move it with your finger. Imagine then the torque and power of the car accelerating. Of course the car thinks that something is slipping.
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      11-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossifumi View Post
I don't think that run flats would perform so much better.

If you have a good studless tire the rubber at the surface is so soft the you can move it with your finger. Imagine then the torque and power of the car accelerating. Of course the car thinks that something is slipping.
any idea why this is only happening on the highway though? in town and even on the onramp i can rape it as much as i want the onramp is same surface as the highway for the most part im assuming so its strange...but again a safety thing from bmw we give you dsc and runflats but if you put on a better tire that is safer you DSC wont comply. ...?
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      11-16-2012, 10:10 AM   #7
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I have more problems when I am driving from 90km/h and up. From a stand still and up to 80-90km/h the problem isn't that big. But over that you have to use the accelerator with more care. So I think it is the higher speed that messes with the systems.
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      11-16-2012, 10:23 AM   #8
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Interesting, two questions:

a.) I take it there is zero wheelspin during these 'interceptions'?
b.) Is the rolling circumference the same as the summer tyres? Importantly both the front AND the back. List the sizes you took off and what you put back on.

I can only think that the tyres are expanding at speed (centrifugal forces, like a dragsters rear tyres) but at different rates, causing a speed difference, which fools the car into thinking there is loss of traction.

Runflats are extremely stiff, so don't suffer this issue as much,as perhaps softer structured non run flats, and soft tread winters at that.
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      11-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #9
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First, are the tires scrubbed in?

Tire pressure will be very critical on xDrive. As said, rubber is softer and therefore will likely distort more than run-flat tires.

What is the front to rear pressures variation, you may need to adjust and experiment.

Straight running, as on the highway, will likely show wheel speed differences/interpret as errors, more than in bends etc., when DSC parameters will be different to accommodate manoeuvres.

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      11-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #10
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Oh great!

I'm putting my winter tyres on next week and getting annoyed with the posts in this thread.

Will let u know what I experience.
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      11-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #11
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i'm setup factory spec: 32 F / 38 R

Haven't broken them in yet though...I'll give it a few hundred miles...
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      11-16-2012, 01:12 PM   #12
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I've put winter tyres on my UK F30 320d ED with no issues - admittedly they are runflats on 16 inch alloys. Still a fantastic drive and only once has the DSC light flashed at me despite some pretty spirited driving in Sport & Sport + modes.
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      11-16-2012, 02:20 PM   #13
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I might have to add that I run Nokian Hakka R, a nordic winter tire way softer than what most of Europe uses. So my problems are worse than the continental europeans with their more performance oriented tires.
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      11-16-2012, 04:25 PM   #14
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Interesting discussion i wonder how the DSC is reacts in a winter tire equipped M3 and other M cars?

To giorgioarmani try testing with higher tire pressure remember colder temperature utside=lower tire pressure and lower tire pressure=more tire expansion the faster you go.
Maybe it helps.

Last edited by Holset; 11-16-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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      11-16-2012, 05:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
i'm setup factory spec: 32 F / 38 R

Haven't broken them in yet though...I'll give it a few hundred miles...
Was a little better this afternoon...Maybe the rubber isn't broken in yet?
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      11-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #16
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Hardcore winter snow/ice tires have a very soft compound with very flexible tread blocks. Under acceleration on dry surfaces the tires will literally "wind up" making the DSC thing they're slipping. In essence, they ARE, but it's the tire carcass in relation to the tread blocks, not the tread in relation to the road.

A simple anology, picture a huge draggster tire with tall, soft sidewalls. When a car launches the sidewall actually wrinkles because it has such a good grip on the track. It's essentially the same thing. The "performance" winter tires that BMW recommends don't have treadblocks that are as soft, so you won't see the same issues.

I personally would run similar tire pressures at all four corners with a soft snow/ice tire. They're not built for performance. They're built for gripping slick surfaces.
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      11-16-2012, 11:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
i'm setup factory spec: 32 F / 38 R

Haven't broken them in yet though...I'll give it a few hundred miles...
Was a little better this afternoon...Maybe the rubber isn't broken in yet?
I just put my winter set up on last week. Nokian wr g2 non rft on staggered 18" M sport 400m wheels. First 100 miles or so the car was a bit swirly especially when temp was above 45 F. I never got DSC but the wr g2 are a V rated winter tire so that's probably why. Give em a week or so scrub in and see if there's any change. I've never had good experiences with drivability on dedicated winter tires on a performance sedan. I always try to lean towards performance winters and the nokians have been awesome so far.
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      11-17-2012, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgioarmani View Post
DSC safety interrupts on hwwy after i changed to michelin alpin winter tires from a non bmw garage yesterday. (private garage confirmed from michelin that these tires are compatible)

And i mean total baby mode. Funny thing is, i can floor it all i want on normal roads but when i get on the highway boom nanny dsc mode.

I got the michelin alpins non runflat in the same exact dimensions as the summer runflats for the 19 inch stock wheels.

Dealer says it s cause the car is developed for runflats (especially my xdrive)and the tires are probably too soft hence the issue. wow, dsc can only work in harmony to runflats ok.. tell me thats a joke?

besides that, they dont know what it could be casue no error codes are being thrown they say, lol, and that it might be the surface of the hgwy being the culprit and that had i had them install tires which is what i 'should' have done this wouldnt be happening now.

and apparently all bmws now have runflats becasue of these strong new motors...

fuckin A will it ever end? can my car just be my car?

any ideas? gonna put the summers back on cause i cant drive like this...
Very odd... do you have the TPM installed too? (Not sure if the TPM interacts with the computer, and to what extent). I took off my stock 19" Potenza runflats last week and put on the 18" rims with Pirelli Sottozero II's, NON-runflat... have noticed no real difference in any driving mode, or style other than the tires being a little noisier. Ride is just slightly softer on the 18", especially being non-runflat. Performance is excellent and I even drove in Sport+ mode which operated normally. I put the winters on myself. The tires are brand new, came from Tirerack, mounted, hunter balanced, and with TPM. Non-runflat should not make a difference, I have xDrive too so that is ridiculous as is the "surface of the highway"... is it cobblestone?? lol. I'd take it to the dealer and have them check for computer issues.
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      11-17-2012, 11:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
Hardcore winter snow/ice tires have a very soft compound with very flexible tread blocks. Under acceleration on dry surfaces the tires will literally "wind up" making the DSC thing they're slipping. In essence, they ARE, but it's the tire carcass in relation to the tread blocks, not the tread in relation to the road.

A simple anology, picture a huge draggster tire with tall, soft sidewalls. When a car launches the sidewall actually wrinkles because it has such a good grip on the track. It's essentially the same thing. The "performance" winter tires that BMW recommends don't have treadblocks that are as soft, so you won't see the same issues.

I personally would run similar tire pressures at all four corners with a soft snow/ice tire. They're not built for performance. They're built for gripping slick surfaces.
good visual.

yea well i had the car at the dealer and they didnt see any errors on the computer.

I assume the sensitivity of DSC in the XD in particual may be too fine tuned for these very soft Michelin Alpin Tires.

The road surface of the HGWY is not the issue i dont think, most likely the rate of speed and tire expansion as mentioned.

Dissapointing because my plan was to remove runflats on my stock 19 inch wheel, replace with regular winter tires on the same wheels...then in the summer acquire aftermarket rims again with non runflats. now i dont know what to anymore. how will the computer react when eventually lowering the car and new rims and other mods god dammit?

monday i go take off the michelins and replace with stock summers untill the bmw pirelli runflat winters in 19 inch are in. we ll see what happens.
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      11-17-2012, 11:55 AM   #20
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I have Michelin Pilot PA3s for my Winter set-up on my 500+hp 550xi and I have taken it to the dragstrip and did numerous 12.5-12.6sec quarter mile runs on those tires. I've never saw a DSC warning light even at the track.
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      11-17-2012, 12:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I have Michelin Pilot PA3s for my Winter set-up on my 500+hp 550xi and I have taken it to the dragstrip and did numerous 12.5-12.6sec quarter mile runs on those tires. I've never saw a DSC warning light even at the track.
what size wheel? 19?

gosh well paint me envious
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      11-17-2012, 12:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I have Michelin Pilot PA3s for my Winter set-up on my 500+hp 550xi and I have taken it to the dragstrip and did numerous 12.5-12.6sec quarter mile runs on those tires. I've never saw a DSC warning light even at the track.
PA3 is a "performance" winter tire. Much more rigid/stable tread blocks than more hardcore snow/ice tires.
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