F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > Regional Forums > UK > Winter tyres in mild weather?
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #1
UK_
Lieutenant
 
UK_'s Avatar
 
Drives: M4 Convertible Tanzanite Blue
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 401
iTrader: (0)

Winter tyres in mild weather?

After all the forum debate about tyre choice, I am thinking of investing in some winter tyres to maximise benefits of xdrive. However, I have read a few articles, one from CAR in particular, highlighting the potential dangers of using winter tyres in mild conditions going as far to say they 'pray for snow' as it can be scary if too mild.

I know it is an individual opinion, but has anyone any experience of being caught out on winter tyres because it is 'too mild'? I live in the (slightly) warmer south so perhaps xdrive on all seasons is the way forward?
UK_ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #2
NISFAN
Brigadier General
 
NISFAN's Avatar
 
Drives: The best kind of F30 :)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bedford UK

Posts: 4,015
iTrader: (0)

Why do journalists always have to scare monger?

I drove a car on winter tyres on a hot summers day. Was a little squirmy like driving in the wet, but it would have to be a very 'mild' day in winter to feel dangerous. Unless he was using those ultra winter tyres that they use in the nordics?
__________________
NISFAN is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      11-19-2012, 06:27 PM   #3
MaestroAl
Major
 
Drives: Superman 330D M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 1,194
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rb79 View Post
After all the forum debate about tyre choice, I am thinking of investing in some winter tyres to maximise benefits of xdrive. However, I have read a few articles, one from CAR in particular, highlighting the potential dangers of using winter tyres in mild conditions going as far to say they 'pray for snow' as it can be scary if too mild.

I know it is an individual opinion, but has anyone any experience of being caught out on winter tyres because it is 'too mild'? I live in the (slightly) warmer south so perhaps xdrive on all seasons is the way forward?
Dude. Stick to summer tyres. Winter tyres are only useful for 2 days a year, maybe 3 if the weather men are to be believed this year. You've got 4WD so you don't need special tyres. I've driven my MPS through two winters on "sporty" tyres like P-Zeros and Ultracs and it's been absolutely fine in any conditions. You just don't need posh tyres on 4WD cars

Maybe if you live down country lanes where it never gets gritted and you're in a standard RWD 3 series with an auto box then maybe ... otherwise it's a con.
__________________
"Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red
2PF|ZAP|ZMP|ZVI|2VF|3AP|420|488|494|5DC|688|6NR
IT ARRIVED!
MaestroAl is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #4
UK_
Lieutenant
 
UK_'s Avatar
 
Drives: M4 Convertible Tanzanite Blue
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 401
iTrader: (0)

I'm with your Maestro, think it is about driving sensibly and about where you live.
UK_ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 04:11 AM   #5
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rb79 View Post
After all the forum debate about tyre choice, I am thinking of investing in some winter tyres to maximise benefits of xdrive. However, I have read a few articles, one from CAR in particular, highlighting the potential dangers of using winter tyres in mild conditions going as far to say they 'pray for snow' as it can be scary if too mild.

I know it is an individual opinion, but has anyone any experience of being caught out on winter tyres because it is 'too mild'? I live in the (slightly) warmer south so perhaps xdrive on all seasons is the way forward?
I use them in a word "NO" it's total bull*hit.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 04:26 AM   #6
MaestroAl
Major
 
Drives: Superman 330D M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 1,194
iTrader: (0)

The reality is that is you get caught doing an emergency stop on the Motorway in the dry, you will probably die if you've got Winter tyres one because they're rubbish (I exaggerate a teeny bit but you get my point)Stick to summers unless you genuinely cannot drive your car when it snows and you absolutely must (in which case, why don't you have a 4x4?). It's simple logic that winter tyres are worse than summer tyres all the time, unless it's snowed. And it never snows any more. To each their own, of course, but living on an island in the gulf stream means we just don't get cold enough for long enough to warrant them IMO

Watch me eat my words now as we descend into an ice age
__________________
"Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red
2PF|ZAP|ZMP|ZVI|2VF|3AP|420|488|494|5DC|688|6NR
IT ARRIVED!
MaestroAl is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 04:54 AM   #7
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,458
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rb79 View Post
I know it is an individual opinion, but has anyone any experience of being caught out on winter tyres because it is 'too mild'? I live in the (slightly) warmer south so perhaps xdrive on all seasons is the way forward?
With our variable temperatures, even up here we have temperature swings during the winter months, which take us over 10C.

I run a winter set and have used them up to 14C without any issues whatsoever. Of course they feel slightly different as the temperature warms up, they are a tool designed for lower temperatures, you just drive accordingly, and by that I don't mean you have to nanny them around.

You have to weigh up the reasons you fit them, and it isn't just for the days we have snow. Cold nights, ice pockets, black ice which is the worst for catching folks out. Winter tyres give you the maximum safety in those conditions, better chance to brake and control your car.

I've been saved from the ditch, when the car in front went out of control on black ice. I had to brake on black ice in the bend, worst conditions possible... but the tyres gripped and hauled be down with a very small amount of twitch to the car. Same morning another car wasn't so lucky, went off the road into the trees. My winter tyres paid for themselves in that one event, let alone the other times when I know I was running much safer than many cars around me.

BTW, a RWD car with winter tyres is a safer car to drive in snow/ice conditions than AWD on All-season. That is well documented in tests. It isn't just the traction grip we want, but car control and braking.

We run an X3 xDrive, (summer tyres) and a VW 4-motion (All season), and a VW Transporter FWD on winter tyres. My RWD BMW and the Transporter are the better vehicles for traction and definitely for stopping.

I'll add just don't expect to drive a car the same way (in all conditions) as you would a car on summer tyres in warm dry conditions. If we try and compare to that, then we might get a distorted opinion on what winter tyres are really all about.

xDrive in itself is no real solution for the worst of weather, we still get AWD vehicles in the ditches up here, as there is the feeling because you can get going all is OK, forgetting we have to stop as well. Only tyres assist us in that function.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 05:25 AM   #8
MaestroAl
Major
 
Drives: Superman 330D M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 1,194
iTrader: (0)

There's no substitute for a good driver And you live in Scotlandville where it actually gets cold for more than 5 hours a year
__________________
"Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red
2PF|ZAP|ZMP|ZVI|2VF|3AP|420|488|494|5DC|688|6NR
IT ARRIVED!
MaestroAl is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 05:55 AM   #9
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
The reality is that is you get caught doing an emergency stop on the Motorway in the dry, you will probably die if you've got Winter tyres one because they're rubbish (I exaggerate a teeny bit but you get my point)Stick to summers unless you genuinely cannot drive your car when it snows and you absolutely must (in which case, why don't you have a 4x4?). It's simple logic that winter tyres are worse than summer tyres all the time, unless it's snowed. And it never snows any more. To each their own, of course, but living on an island in the gulf stream means we just don't get cold enough for long enough to warrant them IMO

Watch me eat my words now as we descend into an ice age
OR unless they are WINTER SPORTS tyres these peform very well in conditions below 14 degC and very good in wet conditions,both of which are conditions now between November /March times. IMO of course.
These tyres are "V" speed rated thats 149MPH.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir

Last edited by JOHNBMWM5; 11-20-2012 at 06:05 AM.
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:02 AM   #10
pops_f30
Private First Class
 
pops_f30's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 330d MSport EBII
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wokingham

Posts: 111
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
OR unless they are WINTER SPORTS tyres these peform very well in conditions below 14 degC and very good in wet conditions,both of which are conditions now between November /March times. IMO of course.
I am with you John, I have some winter wheels with Pirelli Sottozero II which will be going on my F30 in the next week or so.

First time for winter tyres but always got stuck with a manual 320D M Sport, now a 330d M Sport Auto is going to be worse IMO, time will tell I guess.
pops_f30 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:03 AM   #11
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,458
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
There's no substitute for a good driver
Agree, but that is where it really does go pear shaped when conditions deteriorate. Watching the antics in snow on the TV for the past few winters, really shows most drivers have no idea of how a car works, let alone how to modulate the controls for poor conditions.

Even tyre condition is in question. Was speaking with a friend the other day, who I'd give a bit of credit for understanding the basics of motoring. Happened to mention about tyre tread depth, and driving the winter months. He hadn't ever thought that having decent tread depth through the winter months was a factor in safer motoring. How many drivers feel all is fine, as long as they have tyres with a legal minimum tread depth?

It is a factor that scares me if I'm on the motorway, the cars around on that wet day, driving the same high speeds in heavy weather and standing water, as they would on a warm dry day. How many give consideration to how the car would brake in an emergency? Concerns me knowing some will have tyres down to the legal limit and some with even less tread across the tyres.

Hard to even define the 'good' driver, when even driving craft skills are compromised by poor vehicle condition.

It is one reason to think a bit more laterally than some of the tests we read on tyre performance. Mostly tested on new srubbed in tyres, give a different picture than in the real world, over the life of the tyre. Many don't even understand the "3mm" advice for tyre safety.

Of more value would be comparisons of part worn tyres, with typical shoulder wear, a mix of tread depths front to rear, wide and narrow tyre sections, and braking in the worst of conditions. Would be harder to interpret the results with understanding, and not so eye-catching in the headlines.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:06 AM   #12
MaestroAl
Major
 
Drives: Superman 330D M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 1,194
iTrader: (0)

Indeedy. I was rather perturbed by the 2mm rule on my lease I've never driven tyres with 2mm on them! And now, for the sake of 300 per tyre, I've got to drive to what I would consider dangerous levels at 2mm before the lease company will change them
__________________
"Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red
2PF|ZAP|ZMP|ZVI|2VF|3AP|420|488|494|5DC|688|6NR
IT ARRIVED!
MaestroAl is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:13 AM   #13
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Agree, but that is where it really does go pear shaped when conditions deteriorate. Watching the antics in snow on the TV for the past few winters, really shows most drivers have no idea of how a car works, let alone how to modulate the controls for poor conditions.

Even tyre condition is in question. Was speaking with a friend the other day, who I'd give a bit of credit for understanding the basics of motoring. Happened to mention about tyre tread depth, and driving the winter months. He hadn't ever thought that having decent tread depth through the winter months was a factor in safer motoring. How many drivers feel all is fine, as long as they have tyres with a legal minimum tread depth?

It is a factor that scares me if I'm on the motorway, the cars around on that wet day, driving the same high speeds in heavy weather and standing water, as they would on a warm dry day. How many give consideration to how the car would brake in an emergency? Concerns me knowing some will have tyres down to the legal limit and some with even less tread across the tyres.

Hard to even define the 'good' driver, when even driving craft skills are compromised by poor vehicle condition.

It is one reason to think a bit more laterally than some of the tests we read on tyre performance. Mostly tested on new srubbed in tyres, give a different picture than in the real world, over the life of the tyre. Many don't even understand the "3mm" advice for tyre safety.

Of more value would be comparisons of part worn tyres, with typical shoulder wear, a mix of tread depths front to rear, wide and narrow tyre sections, and braking in the worst of conditions. Would be harder to interpret the results with understanding, and not so eye-catching in the headlines.

HighlandPete
Very true words indeed. I have the ability (through my product) to stop very quickly, but how many behind me can not so sure on that at all.
They call norfolk the "one headlight county" for obvious reasons, were are the boys in blue on these occasions!!!!!!!
Speeding is the only interest they seem to respond to round here.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:14 AM   #14
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Indeedy. I was rather perturbed by the 2mm rule on my lease I've never driven tyres with 2mm on them! And now, for the sake of 300 per tyre, I've got to drive to what I would consider dangerous levels at 2mm before the lease company will change them
Surely you have some "legal argument" there.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:22 AM   #15
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,458
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Indeedy. I was rather perturbed by the 2mm rule on my lease I've never driven tyres with 2mm on them! And now, for the sake of 300 per tyre, I've got to drive to what I would consider dangerous levels at 2mm before the lease company will change them
I've read of that rule before... by other concerned users. Pleased I'm not tied by some lease agreement, I'd not be happy with 2mm whatever the quality of the tyre.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:24 AM   #16
MaestroAl
Major
 
Drives: Superman 330D M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 1,194
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
Surely you have some "legal argument" there.
I doubt it. It's above legal requirements and so what is my case?

What is at fault here is the law, not the lease company
__________________
"Superman 330D M Sport" Estoril Blue / Coral Red
2PF|ZAP|ZMP|ZVI|2VF|3AP|420|488|494|5DC|688|6NR
IT ARRIVED!
MaestroAl is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #17
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
I doubt it. It's above legal requirements and so what is my case?

What is at fault here is the law, not the lease company
I think 1.5mm is way too low IMO. Tests show a marked drop or rather increase in stopping distance on that tread depth.
I check new tyre depths when I get my cars and few are more than 8mm, some less!!!.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 06:38 AM   #18
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,458
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
OR unless they are WINTER SPORTS tyres these peform very well in conditions below 14 degC and very good in wet conditions,both of which are conditions now between November /March times.....
That's the key, the right winter tyre for our climate. I'll be running Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RFTs on the 535i this winter, the BMW OEM setup. Will be interesting to see how they perform. Just waiting for the next cold snap, likely to be the real winter weather next time. 11 - 12C at the present.

Ran Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme on the 330d, suited that car well, no issues at all in any conditions. Their only weakness (if you can call it that) was deep standing water, could sense they worked hard to displace water and you verged on aqua-planing on the really deep stuff. But I am talking about really bad standing water along some of the edges of our highland roads. But to be fair and put it in perspective, a half worn summer tyre would be worse for aqua-planing in those conditions.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #19
RobUK
Major
 
RobUK's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 328i Lux' 8SAT, Red
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sussex, UK

Posts: 1,100
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
What is at fault here is the law, not the lease company
Being entirely cynical, there's nothing to stop a lease company introducing a policy that says "In the interests of road safety, tyres can be replaced when the tread depth is under 3mm". However, what their policy actually says is...

"In the interests of keeping operating costs to a minimum wherever possible, tyres should be replaced only when the tread depth is approaching the legal minimum and is below 2mm, regardless of any argument that a 3mm limit would actually be safer."
__________________

2012 F30 328i Lux', 8SAT, Melbourne Red
RobUK is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 09:06 AM   #20
TMP
Colonel
 
TMP's Avatar
 
Drives: M135i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire

Posts: 2,874
iTrader: (0)

Conti's view is you can run winters all year around and should do soif you can't find a way to swap.

http://www.conti-online.com/generato...ter-tyres.html


The OEM 330d Bridgestone's turn to Flintstones in the cold winter not my idea of fun!
__________________
M-Lite v2 & Family 5er v2
TMP is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 09:15 AM   #21
TMP
Colonel
 
TMP's Avatar
 
Drives: M135i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire

Posts: 2,874
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
OR unless they are WINTER SPORTS tyres these peform very well in conditions below 14 degC and very good in wet conditions,both of which are conditions now between November /March times.....
That's the key, the right winter tyre for our climate. I'll be running Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RFTs on the 535i this winter, the BMW OEM setup. Will be interesting to see how they perform. Just waiting for the next cold snap, likely to be the real winter weather next time. 11 - 12C at the present.

Ran Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme on the 330d, suited that car well, no issues at all in any conditions. Their only weakness (if you can call it that) was deep standing water, could sense they worked hard to displace water and you verged on aqua-planing on the really deep stuff. But I am talking about really bad standing water along some of the edges of our highland roads. But to be fair and put it in perspective, a half worn summer tyre would be worse for aqua-planing in those conditions.

HighlandPete
Our 5er came with Dunlop Sport winter M3, what is the difference Pete?

The m135i comes with ultra-high performance winter tyres (like the Summers) : Continental Winter Contact TS830P SSR Runflat tyes. What I am not looking forward to is Runflats on the 1er and a non staggered 205 setup.
__________________
M-Lite v2 & Family 5er v2
TMP is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2012, 12:58 PM   #22
NISFAN
Brigadier General
 
NISFAN's Avatar
 
Drives: The best kind of F30 :)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bedford UK

Posts: 4,015
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Agree, but that is where it really does go pear shaped when conditions deteriorate. Watching the antics in snow on the TV for the past few winters, really shows most drivers have no idea of how a car works, let alone how to modulate the controls for poor conditions.

Even tyre condition is in question. Was speaking with a friend the other day, who I'd give a bit of credit for understanding the basics of motoring. Happened to mention about tyre tread depth, and driving the winter months. He hadn't ever thought that having decent tread depth through the winter months was a factor in safer motoring. How many drivers feel all is fine, as long as they have tyres with a legal minimum tread depth?

It is a factor that scares me if I'm on the motorway, the cars around on that wet day, driving the same high speeds in heavy weather and standing water, as they would on a warm dry day. How many give consideration to how the car would brake in an emergency? Concerns me knowing some will have tyres down to the legal limit and some with even less tread across the tyres.

Hard to even define the 'good' driver, when even driving craft skills are compromised by poor vehicle condition.

It is one reason to think a bit more laterally than some of the tests we read on tyre performance. Mostly tested on new srubbed in tyres, give a different picture than in the real world, over the life of the tyre. Many don't even understand the "3mm" advice for tyre safety.

Of more value would be comparisons of part worn tyres, with typical shoulder wear, a mix of tread depths front to rear, wide and narrow tyre sections, and braking in the worst of conditions. Would be harder to interpret the results with understanding, and not so eye-catching in the headlines.

HighlandPete
Great post
__________________
NISFAN is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST