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      11-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by swanson View Post
A335i turns heads?
It turns my head. It's that good.
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      11-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #46
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Oh please. Fanbois have been saying all along that the 3 series is the "drivers car". The new 3 series has been beat fair and square.
On BMW...
"theres something kind of clinical about it..."
"you kind of want things to be firm..."

On Mercedes...
"great stiff neutral chassis...Cadillac's chassis is even stiffer"

On Cadillac...
"goes around corners better than it goes in a straight line..."
"the ride is on the firm side of firm, in fact I'd call it harsh, which I happen to really like..."

I think BMW will tweak the steering and suspension a bit and they will be well served by doing this. However in this comparison the reviewer places a bit too much emphasis on having a hard suspension and heavy steering. Certainly not what I'm looking for in a sports sedan. Sports car yes, sports sedan no.
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      11-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
On this episode of Head 2 Head, Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman stages a rematch between the all-new Cadillac ATS and the BMW 3-Series. But this time, he trades the smaller engines and manual gear boxes for more power and automatic transmissions. And just to throw a wrench in things, he brought along the 2013 Mercedes-Benz C350.

Does the bigger engine and auto gear box of the ATS have what it takes to redeem itself against the titans of the segment?





first of all this guy is so annoying, according to him ATS drives and feels the best on the road and it is the best performance sedan for $50 k, come on really, i really feel like that automakers pay for these shows to post reviews and just advertise them

what do you think, I don't agree with him at all, maybe because I have 335i m sport, but when I was shopping for a car I didn't even consider Mercedes, and didn't even think of Cadillac at all

I agree. Not because I like BMWs, but he always sounds very biased. The ATS looks and sounds great, but his bias reviews makes you skeptical about it. I would only get the ATS if it was 10k cheaper than BMW or Benz. IMO, The Cady brand name is not yet head to head with BMW or Benz who are already overpriced.
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      11-21-2012, 02:32 PM   #48
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Obviously a BMW forum ... BMW skewed view.

I LOOOOOOOVVVEEE how all the current e90 Drivers and F30 328 Drivers feel the need to chime in here and harp on the 335i. Haters will hate.

My money. My Decision. I paid more... and could NOT have been happier w/ my decision. I have a car that puts a smile on my face every time I peak through my garage door to take a look at. Very little in my life that I can buy gives me that same feeling.

I test drove all of them in the bunch and could NOT disagree w/ this review more.

MB over the BMW???? Are you kidding me??? I considered this one of the cheapest made, under engineered cars I have ever driven in my life. Felt like I was driving a boat (the body roll was horrible). Almost not acceptable for a car charging this much.

As for the Caddy ... transmission sucked in every rhelm. Was it stiffer ... yes. Stiffer doesn't mean "better".

This review has seriously made me question the authenticity behind the reviews and the alleged behind the scene endorsements everyone has always thrown out for consideration.
+1 MB rides so harshly. I must say it feels like it's a tank though, corners like one too.
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      11-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post
[/b]

Oh please. Fanbois have been saying all along that the 3 series is the "drivers car". The new 3 series has been beat fair and square.
Remember, ATS was benchmarking BMW E90 model, with that much money and time, not beating the E90 would be a shame and total failure for Caddy.

BTW, I like Jonny Lieberman.
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      11-21-2012, 02:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinf79 View Post
Obviously a BMW forum ... BMW skewed view.

I LOOOOOOOVVVEEE how all the current e90 Drivers and F30 328 Drivers feel the need to chime in here and harp on the 335i. Haters will hate
.
Sorry brother that's all in your head. I didn't catch a whiff of hate here.
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      11-21-2012, 02:34 PM   #51
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the 335 he has likely doesnt have sport susp
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      11-21-2012, 02:35 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
You mean equipped with DHP.
What's DHP? I mean M Suspension.

I drove the standard "line" 335i and thought it was terribly soft, not my cup of tea at all. I drove the M Sport (which comes with M Suspension and 19" 403M wheels) and it was a different car. Closer to what the reviewer in this video likes from what I can tell.
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      11-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by JonoNZ View Post
What's DHP? I mean M Suspension.

I drove the standard "line" 335i and thought it was terribly soft, not my cup of tea at all. I drove the M Sport (which comes with M Suspension and 19" 403M wheels) and it was a different car. Closer to what the reviewer in this video likes from what I can tell.
Dynamic handling package. It includes the variable sport steering and the adaptive suspension dampening. It's an option on top of the sport package.
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      11-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #54
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the 335 he has likely doesnt have sport susp
From the asthetics, it's a sport line with sport suspension, same as M sport suspension.
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      11-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #55
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Dynamic handling package. It includes the variable sport steering and the adaptive suspension dampening. It's an option on top of the sport package.
We don't have packages in NZ - you buy each option that you want.

My 335i on order has adaptive and VSS.
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      11-21-2012, 02:39 PM   #56
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We don't have packages in NZ - you buy each option that you want.

My 335i on order has adaptive and VSS.
That would explain it then. In the US, we cannot order those a la carte.
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      11-21-2012, 02:40 PM   #57
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From the asthetics, it's a sport line with sport suspension, same as M sport suspension.
Interesting. Sport line in NZ and AU is standard suspension, not sport.
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      11-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #58
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The incredibly sad thing is is that i actually know what this guy is talking about when he says the new f30 feels rubbery and numb.. because that is exactly what it is, rubbery and numb. Not to knock on the f30 335's power and its straight line performance, which it does well, it just doesn't feel so connected to the road anymore like bmw's have been in the past. I agree with the reviewer, the C does feel more in tune with the road than the F30 3 series. As for the ATS, I still need to test drive it.
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      11-21-2012, 02:46 PM   #59
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I guess we BMW fans are getting a taste of what fans of other brands have been experiencing for years and years where the 3 series was always deemed #1 regardless of what anyone else brought to the party. I can remember reading an M3 review on C and D about four years and every commenter swore that the magazine had a BMW bias. Hopefully an M performance version of the F30 redeems us.
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      11-21-2012, 02:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Competition is good, hopefully BMW will wake up and fix the design of the hideous front of the regular F30 and their steering feel which has been an issue in the F10 as well.

Personally I'm glad I got one of the last E92 and E70.
+1

It's so funny to see all the F30 owners justify their biased opinions on the ATS beating the F30. Let's be real here guys.... the ATS is a better SPORTS SEDAN. I emphasis sport because that was the whole point of the 3 series formula. To provide near sports car like performance from a sedan. Credit is due when deserved.

BTW Cadillac benchmarked the E46 not the E90 because the head engineer at GM in charge of the Alpha platform believes that the E46 was the ultimate sports sedan and lost sight of that with the E90 and went way out the park with the F30.

I figured this was going to happen the minute I drove the F30.
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      11-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #61
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I just can't get past the awkward interior styling. And the fact they do not offer a 6 speed manual with the 3.6 is another big no thanks. BMW still offers 4% of us whole still prefer a third pedal.
Plus One! But I do like the exterior looks of the ATS, but that cheesy chrome accents inside are a turn off to me. Its still nice to see an American car company get this far.
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      11-21-2012, 02:56 PM   #62
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I believe I optioned an ATS before. How much did that one cost you?
Base premium model is about $47.6k. But I got one with almost every option other than driver assist pkg. So options, advanced security, cold weather pkg, paint upgrade, sunroof and polished wheels added about another $3.5k. Did not really need the options, but they are nice and the car was spec'd out that way. I got about $3k off of MSRP and 1.44% equivalent financing lease factor. Even though BMW would have given me $750 loyalty rebate and BMWCCA would give me another $500, I went the Cadillac ATS route. That says something.
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      11-21-2012, 03:00 PM   #63
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The test of time...

Put a bunch of miles on that Caddy and it will be worthless like all high mile GM cars.
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      11-21-2012, 03:01 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
As CirrusSR22 points out, other reviewers have also agreed that the ATS has superior handling and steering feel, so this conclusion is not suprising.
Blame the new electric steering rack for that one.

This should all be no surprise to anyone. The F30 is the least-BMW-like car BMW has made so far. At least, in terms of the reasons why the 3-series dominated its competitors for so many years.
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      11-21-2012, 03:03 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
+1
BTW Cadillac benchmarked the E46 not the E90 because the head engineer at GM in charge of the Alpha platform believes that the E46 was the ultimate sports sedan and lost sight of that with the E90 and went way out the park with the F30.

I figured this was going to happen the minute I drove the F30.
You are exactly correct. Good post! I too think the E46 3 series variant was the best. Even though I loved my E36 M3 for many years. One of the reasons I went with the 135i as well, even with its flaws. The E90 and E30 missed BMWs mark.
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      11-21-2012, 03:04 PM   #66
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Well I thought overall the ATS was better than the 3 series that is why I bought one. That is from a long time German car lover and BMWCCA member for 15 years. I could have bought any BMW or German car in that segment, but I thought the new ATS did better overall. Some people should try looking outside of the box.

Certain things BMW does better at and the ATS does better at other things. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I am so tired of the BMW look and the ATS looks way more modern and fresh, from inside to outside. The 3 series just keeps getting bigger, heavier and uglier. I say the only thing now going for it is the wonderful N54/N55 engine.

I got the 2013 ATS premium 3.6L V6 with magnetic ride suspension, Brembo front brakes and a real LSD. I think the CUE is wonderful and works great and no complaints. The interior quality is much better than the 3 series.

Some people are not open minded and have made up their minds, before they even look objectively at other options. Well to each their own.
Thank you for your mini review.
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