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      11-25-2012, 11:25 AM   #1
Lakers0824
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Need help, buying first car

Hey guys, new here, and I'm about to buy my first car, but I'm a newb when it comes to this. I just want to know how do you guys find out what the invoice price is on the cars? I'm currently looking at truecars.com, is that a good site to negotiate with dealers? I'm getting about 3-4000 off msrp from that site, so it seems right to me. Any other tips will be great, thanks.
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      11-25-2012, 12:14 PM   #2
60sTrackStar
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http://www.bmwconfig.com/ is a good place to start to find out invoice pricing. Aiming for under $1000 over the dealer invoice price is usually a good deal.

True car is accurate too as far as pricing
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      11-25-2012, 12:42 PM   #3
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There are also other fees, so when you talk with the dealer talk about Out the Door price. They normally charge about $400 for MACO (aka advertising fees), $180 training fee, $875 destination and handling fee, $150 dealer admin fees, and a $450 vehicle registration fee.

Since I see you're in OC, CA, you'll be paying 1% more in sales tax next year. On top of the 7.75%

SoCal internet sales departments are all willing to do $500 over invoice. If you're ordering a car, 500 over invoice is ok. If you're just picking a 328i off the lot then invoice would be the deal to shoot for.

If you can't get $500 over invoice, just PM me I can get u that deal on any car in Socal since it's the deal my CA got me. He was pretty great!

Also, use bmwconfig as it is very very accurate in terms of pricing, however, it only shows the training and destination fees, not the MACO or dealer admin fees.
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      11-25-2012, 01:13 PM   #4
Lakers0824
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^wow alright, cool thanks for all the details. Will def pm you if I don't get 500 over invoice lol.
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      11-25-2012, 01:17 PM   #5
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Also, if you don't want to pay the $400 MACO, then I only know 2 dealers who will do that sort of deal.
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      11-25-2012, 02:15 PM   #6
Ron Scott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
There are also other fees, so when you talk with the dealer talk about Out the Door price. They normally charge about $400 for MACO (aka advertising fees), $180 training fee, $875 destination and handling fee, $150 dealer admin fees, and a $450 vehicle registration fee.

SoCal internet sales departments are all willing to do $500 over invoice. If you're ordering a car, 500 over invoice is ok. If you're just picking a 328i off the lot then invoice would be the deal to shoot for.

If you can't get $500 over invoice, just PM me I can get u that deal on any car in Socal since it's the deal my CA got me.
There is still a good deal of gamesmanship going on these days however. In reviewing your fees above in comparison to what I encountered on Long Island I see you're paying $450 for registration (I paid $75), a $150 "dealer admin fee" (I paid no such fee) and $400 for MACO (I paid $300). But I paid $950 over invoice, so the net is about the same.

Asking the dealer "how much do you want to make above invoice" sounds like you're driving the deal but is not the best approach to negotiating IMO. You can start with a discussion like that to clarify that you know "invoice" pricing, but what you want to do is compare TOTAL PRE-TAX or POST-TAX prices among several dealers and let each one know that's the approach you're taking to avoid the "fees game".
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      11-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #7
Lakers0824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger
Also, if you don't want to pay the $400 MACO, then I only know 2 dealers who will do that sort of deal.
Where are these dealers at?
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      11-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
Lakers0824
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Ron Scott, lol alright, at least i now know what to say, I was thinking of what to say to let them know that I'm not the type to get hustled and that I'm knowledgeable of some of the numbers
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      11-25-2012, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Scott View Post
There is still a good deal of gamesmanship going on these days however. In reviewing your fees above in comparison to what I encountered on Long Island I see you're paying $450 for registration (I paid $75), a $150 "dealer admin fee" (I paid no such fee) and $400 for MACO (I paid $300). But I paid $950 over invoice, so the net is about the same.

Asking the dealer "how much do you want to make above invoice" sounds like you're driving the deal but is not the best approach to negotiating IMO. You can start with a discussion like that to clarify that you know "invoice" pricing, but what you want to do is compare TOTAL PRE-TAX or POST-TAX prices among several dealers and let each one know that's the approach you're taking to avoid the "fees game".
MACO is different for different parts of the country. For Cali, it's $400. The fees are always so high here.

The registration fee is only really high cuz it's freaking Cali. If it were anywhere else it would most likely be less. This fee is dictated by the state, I actually priced it on the DMV website before I went to pay for my car to make sure the fees aligned.

Also, the dealer admin. fee is allowed by the state of California, it can be no more than $150 so most dealers milk it here.

I think, in general, the there were no real fees game as California has really high prices and taxes. The sales tax for where I live is 8.75% and next year will be 9.75%. At least it's better than some cities that are 10% now and going to be 10-12% next year.
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      11-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #10
Ron Scott
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Wow that sucks. 10% tax is out of control. We're 8.625 and everyone's nuts over it...
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      11-26-2012, 01:51 AM   #11
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Wow that sucks. 10% tax is out of control. We're 8.625 and everyone's nuts over it...
You have a better governor than us.
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      11-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #12
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I'm getting about CAD8000.00 discount. The model is 2012 335i xdrive coupe with M package and navigation. What do you think? I haven't decide yet. Should I buy it now or wait for the new 435?
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      11-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #13
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Hey guys, so I found a dealer that's willing to give me a 328 with msport, tech package, lighting package, premium package below invoice which he said was 45525, which looks about right?? Now there's of course maco fee, training fee, registration fee. But he mentioned about 80$ doc fee, 29$ electronic filing fee, and $7 California tire fee, are those right?
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      11-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #14
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hmm I would be careful if I was you because thats a 2013 328i and I dont belive they would go below invoice. Give my CA Matt Morris a call and tell him Arman recommended you, he will take great care of you at Beverly hills bmw: (323) 801-1533
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      11-26-2012, 04:32 PM   #15
Lakers0824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armanm
hmm I would be careful if I was you because thats a 2013 328i and I dont belive they would go below invoice. Give my CA Matt Morris a call and tell him Arman recommended you, he will take great care of you at Beverly hills bmw: (323) 801-1533
Well on the BMW config site, that 45500 is about invoice, and he told me that's the price he'll get it, and he can lower it by a bit, and he said this is all before any incentives are added. Seems fair to me. I'll check it out today
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      11-26-2012, 07:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers0824 View Post
Well on the BMW config site, that 45500 is about invoice, and he told me that's the price he'll get it, and he can lower it by a bit, and he said this is all before any incentives are added. Seems fair to me. I'll check it out today
Check carefully for hidden fees or other "gotchas," but if it's as described, this is a great deal. Congrats!
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      11-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #17
Lakers0824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers0824 View Post
Well on the BMW config site, that 45500 is about invoice, and he told me that's the price he'll get it, and he can lower it by a bit, and he said this is all before any incentives are added. Seems fair to me. I'll check it out today
Check carefully for hidden fees or other "gotchas," but if it's as described, this is a great deal. Congrats!
Got the car at 45025, which is 500 below their invoice price, and 75 below the invoice on bmwconfig site. No hidden fees at all, just the standard maco:400, training:180, handling:895, dealer fees: total was about 120ish, then registration fee at 450. That was it. Then got the 1000 holiday incentive on top if it, with the advertised 3.29 apr. I feel like I got a really great deal.
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      11-28-2012, 11:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
You have a better governor than us.
we pay 7.25% and I still complain
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      11-28-2012, 11:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers0824 View Post
Got the car at 45025, which is 500 below their invoice price, and 75 below the invoice on bmwconfig site. No hidden fees at all, just the standard maco:400, training:180, handling:895, dealer fees: total was about 120ish, then registration fee at 450. That was it. Then got the 1000 holiday incentive on top if it, with the advertised 3.29 apr. I feel like I got a really great deal.
Congrats!!!
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      11-28-2012, 11:56 PM   #20
Lakers0824
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^^^thanks for the help
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      11-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #21
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You guys in California really don't have it that bad. Sure you have a somewhat high registration fees ($450 vs $75) but it's nothing like the personal property taxes we get charged on our vehicles here in the northeast. Our municipal towns tax our vehicles based on whatever the town's mill rate is that year. So we pay an additional $1000 - $2000 in auto taxes every year straight to our town if the car is fairly new. I'd take your $450 any day.
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      11-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyO View Post
You guys in California really don't have it that bad. Sure you have a somewhat high registration fees ($450 vs $75) but it's nothing like the personal property taxes we get charged on our vehicles here in the northeast. Our municipal towns tax our vehicles based on whatever the town's mill rate is that year. So we pay an additional $1000 - $2000 in auto taxes every year straight to our town if the car is fairly new. I'd take your $450 any day.
Come to Texas

We pay about $65 for registration, and $40 for annual inspection.
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