11-27-2012, 08:40 AM | #23 |
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And a puppet president with Goldman Sachs pulling the strings
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11-27-2012, 02:12 PM | #24 | |
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I know which steering system I'd perefer up here, driving some of the twisty stuff, the VSS with a faster rack (overall ratio). Much easier to throw the car though 90-degree turns and hairpins. BTW, I'm not confused with how servotronic works. It is the ability of servotronic to give the 'comfort feeling' with a faster ratio, that makes parking with a faster rack possible. Otherwise it would be very heavy with the speed of the rack towards lock. At speed in the twisty turns you have fast reactions with sensible weighting. For me it is a 'win, win' piece of kit. A little faster mid position, faster on the turns, junctions, and twisty road driving. Easy parking thrown in. HighlandPete |
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11-27-2012, 02:16 PM | #25 |
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No. The overall ratio is not much faster. That is where you are mistaken
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11-27-2012, 05:00 PM | #26 | |
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I see a steering system that gives just 2.2 turns lock to lock, with an average ratio ~12.2:1, as much faster than the standard 2.7 turns, with a 15:1 ratio, in this same application. E92 M3 has 2.4 turns lock to lock, (again variable) with an average (overall) ratio of 12.5:1, so the F30 with VSS is not doing too bad is it? HighlandPete |
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11-27-2012, 05:22 PM | #27 |
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11-27-2012, 05:33 PM | #28 |
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for the remarkable number of responses. I feel a bit guilty in nearly starting a small war on this ... Peace, we all love driving beemers :-) Thanks especially to HighlandPete and johnbmw6 for your helpful replies and dropper99 for the useful link. I wasn't expecting the kind of steering feel you get in a 997 911 (utterly fabulous) from the VSS - just a bit of an improvement in feel and involvement. I've read around a fair bit on this and, barring a few negative comments (mostly coming from the theory angle), the overall feedback seems positive, especially from people who have driven both systems. Anyway, I'll come back when I finally get my car mid-December and I'll post a mini-review of the steering compared to the three none VSS F30s I drove, good or bad :-) Thanks all for your thoughts! Dave PS Is there a drug I can take that will put me into a deep and restful sleep until 15th December? |
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11-27-2012, 06:46 PM | #29 | |
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The only time you actually benefit from the faster lock is when you're parking and manoeuvring since that's the only time you ever apply more than 100 degrees of lock. Sorry if I'm repeating myself but it's a very simple process to understand
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11-28-2012, 01:44 AM | #30 |
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Is the difference between VSS and 'vanilla' servotronic just this rack/teeth thing or are there other differences, e.g. the electronics/assistive bit? (Sorry if it's a dumb question, not very tech savvy on such matters).
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11-28-2012, 07:24 AM | #31 |
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Yes the VVS is just the same steering rack as standard except it is machined different at the bottom, so to make it less turns lock to lock.. So it costs BMW the exact same to manufacture but cost Joe punter an extra £250.. why than you!! (information supplied from my friendly BMW sales person who was shown both on a training course)
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11-28-2012, 08:01 AM | #32 | |
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I suspect there will be software differences too. It'll require more power assistance to provide the same level of comfort at slow speeds and high steering inputs
Still a rip-off and a marketing con though Just glad we Eeeeengleesh can order M Adaptive without VSS unlike our poor Yankee cousins who get shepherded into buying both Quote:
That's at best dishonest and at worst a down-right lie.
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11-28-2012, 08:02 AM | #33 |
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PS Is there a drug I can take that will put me into a deep and restful sleep until 15th December?[/QUOTE]
If there is can you get me some to see me through to the 10th December.
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11-28-2012, 09:28 AM | #34 |
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So if the two racks are so similar (except a little machining of the teeth), why is it that:
1) a number of folks (including myself) who have driven both say that VSS has better feel [when both in Sport or Sport+ mode] during normal driving, not just parking lot maneuvers (subjective, but not an uncommon observation); and 2) of the many complaints on this forum about "steering wheel vibration", only one of those complaints comes from someone with VSS? I suspect there are more differences, software and/or hardware, between the two. My .02,
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11-28-2012, 09:41 AM | #35 |
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1) Placebo. It's something you paid for so it must be better?
2) I don't think the evidence supports that claim
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11-28-2012, 10:14 AM | #36 | |
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2) Not a "claim", I'm stating an observation: only one of the many reports in the lengthy "2012 F30 Steering wheel vibration" thread indicates that the car has VSS. What "evidence" are you referring to?
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11-28-2012, 10:19 AM | #37 |
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I just thought that it was across the board in the Steering wheel vibration thread. Granted I've not read the thread for a few weeks but it gets a bit dull after a while My memory could easily be wrong there though Even if that is the case, it might be a harmonic resonance on a 14.5:1 rack that's not present on a 15:1 rack. Perfectly reasonable conclusion
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11-28-2012, 10:42 AM | #38 | ||
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11-28-2012, 11:32 AM | #39 |
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Just drove the Luxury 330D touring today whilst mine was in on the computer, it had STD suspension NO VSS, NO brake upgrade, got back in mine and way better all round and the brake feel was just great, what a difference.
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11-28-2012, 11:41 AM | #40 |
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My impressions are that the VSS does make a difference.
I spend most of the time on the motorway so I don't notice it then but once off the motorway and on the twisting and turning roads home it comes into its own. It does seem to have more directness and the turns feel easier when you're having to go round those tighter bends. I had a loan car a few weeks ago without VSS and it did feel different. The car didn't seem to go into those bends with as much purpose. On the way back home then in my car it was back to best
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11-28-2012, 01:04 PM | #41 |
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@MaestroAl. Have you actually driven both cars with and without VSS - so your comments are 1st hand? Or are you just taking a guess that VSS is a waste of money and pointless based on whatever you have read?
Seems you are the only person on here that thinks its a waste of time. |
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11-28-2012, 04:14 PM | #42 | |
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Why isn't it standard fitment, maybe because if you put a few letters and marketing on the end the sheep will purchase it.. True what you say about salesmen, but he would never try and sell me something for the sake of it. He actually laughed when he asked if i'd like to spec it.. tells you all you need to know. |
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11-28-2012, 04:48 PM | #43 | |
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In a system with variable geometry, you can't just change the pitch of the rack teeth either side of centre because the pinion would run out, the gear would not mesh. Soooo.....a variable system has a large pinion, big enough to cover the full rack movement, and has matched varying pitch. The rack and pinion are made as a matched pair. The differing ratio is machined into both the rack #and the pinion to maintain meshing. This system has to be carefully aligned to start with, etc. so quite technical and orders of magnitude more complex than a straight rack. The important feature is the pinion cannot rotate more than 360 degrees like it does on a normal system. Coming back to what your salesman advised, as it has a similar ratio in the centre as Maestro explained it won't behave much differently, although the large pinion would require less assistance, so could 'feel' different depending on the electronic assist programming. Also in normal driving you rarely use more than 90 degree steering wheel angle where the tighter ratio kicks in, so you are unlikely to feel this action in normal driving, only low speed manoeuvres. Again as Maestro explained hardly a sporty experience on it's own, but with advanced assistance might feel significantly different to matter. |
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