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      12-03-2012, 02:04 PM   #243
r3dbimmer89
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Since I'm a marketing specialist this thread is really making me LOL... I mean c'mon guys (my fellow Americans), I understand your frustration with BMW making less sporty cars and coming out with stuff like this but they are a GLOBAL brand and let's face it, China is where the money is at, not the US. We already know they are going to buy these things up like no other (I saw a crap load of black 5 GTs in China earlier this year).

BMW needs to stay profitable...think about it if they continue making their basic line-up (3,5,7,X,Z) they are not going to stay ahead of the game while Audi continues to expand in these niche markets and what will you say when BMW is left behind only to be taken over by Cherry or Geely because of not staying ahead of the game... let's talk about brand dilution then...

Bank to the OP....it looks pretty good in M sport form...a little awkward but better than the 5er GT.
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      12-03-2012, 02:07 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
+1 to this. If it's an M-Sport package, then make an M-Sport badge for there (if you feel the necessity to differentiate).

Putting a proper M-badge on the fender of a non-M car is blasphemous.
I recall (118tii?) with the little //M logo on fender I believe when it had an "M-pack"
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      12-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #245
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Looks like they did a great job of making it just as hideous as the 5 series GT.
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      12-03-2012, 02:17 PM   #246
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I really wanted to be a fan of this car, but it is horrible....I expected less of a 5GT style and more of a A7 appearance
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      12-03-2012, 02:23 PM   #247
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Well, they've already come up with an updated version of the 1980 AMC Spirit. I guess now they've come up with a slightly updated 1967 AMC Marlin.
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      12-03-2012, 02:31 PM   #248
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I still don't understand why BMW keeps bringing really bad designed cars that any ten year old kid can do better in a few hours? What is their strategy for doing this... avoiding too much customer demand?
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      12-03-2012, 02:32 PM   #249
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I'm not a fan of the GT style, but I think you missed another story in the new color. That is NOT mojave/havanna. It's much too light. Looks like a smokey space gray. This is probably a new color for the launch of the vehicle. And I do like the new color.
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      12-03-2012, 02:46 PM   #250
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bloody hideous
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      12-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #251
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arghhh even a proper wagon looks better than this.
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      12-03-2012, 03:01 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by noro View Post
It's all over. I am glad this car is out, because I had hard time justifying moving to a 911 but BMW made this choice very easy for me.
You mean that small brand owned by VW that issued a 245ps VW diesel SUV plus a large 4 door hatchback looking like a cow? Good catch

Seriously, this thread is becoming pretty annoying, looks like a bunch of (mainly American) teenagers just discovered how sex works (I mean the market) and are disappointed about it... Look at how many luxury/sport brands went downhill, BMW CANNOT remain independent if they do not satisfy global demand. And if you want your 3 Series and M3 to remain at the top of the game, then accept the rules of the game*. Or get a radical sports car (if your wallet allows it) with no room inside for your kids or your luggage.

PS: I wonder how many of you mind about these 2 coexisting in the same range:




* For those who argue that the 3 Series no longer is at the top because the ATS handles better, remember the very first tests of the F30 which unanimously called it the best ever 3 Series, handling awesome and at the same time much more comfortable than the E90. Then the ATS came, which is seemingly tuned sportier. But this is a deliberate choice from BMW, they could have made the F30 stiffer, sharper, but remember the 3 Series is a global car which sells in millions of units and the chassis tune had to find a balance to satisfy enthusiasts as well as everyday drivers. By the way, why didn't those comparos against the ATS (great car too otherwise) stress that the BMW has something called SPORT and SPORT+ modes? Did they even use those modes before saying that the Caddy was handling better??

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      12-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #253
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Nooooo ..... looks like the bastard child of an Audi A5 and an F30!
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      12-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #254
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Found almost all the naysayers and whiners on 5GT or 3GT are from North America. But honestly, i say, 5GT ain't no beauty and its ok with Asia (don't consider us the same as China - cos our taste can be much more sophisticated than the fast-emerging country from past communism). And I say, this 3GT looks way better than 5GT except it still looks bubbly. Again, BMW aims at the world. If North Am don't like them (which has been the case and may remain the same with 3GT) but customers elsewhere like them, I support that BMW not to give them a damn. North American cars are almost extinct from most markets except its own soil and sarcastically, in china. Do GM, Ford, chryslers stop producing their cars becos of that? Get a life.
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      12-03-2012, 03:11 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Much negativity but again no one listens.
The auto industry is a global playing field. This is no longer about you.

BMW used to be a predictable car company we only made exciting cars for the enthusiast driver yet neglected the needs and demands from other customers for exciting cars to allow them to fullfill their daily requirements.

The X5 was the first step out of predictability and then we took other giant steps with the 1er , X3 , X1 , X6 and 5er GT because we found there were customers out there who we did not cater too and we can provide those needs with the BMW philosophy and added style.

These cars might be dismissed by brand enthusiasts and traditionalists but they do exactly what BMW needs them to do and that is provide business growth. BMW's global perspective has increased it has entered new markets and heavily penetrated the worlds largest market for luxury vehicles - China where it over took the US as BMW no 1 export market.
BMW is also experiencing a strong sales reaction within growing markets of India and Brazil markets that are emerging for auto makers.

BMW is well aware of US reaction to the 5er GT just as it is aware that even in the US the car does have a customer base enough to make the 5er GT sell its first year on the market - three years worth of combined units of the BMW 5er Touring (E61).

The car has done well within Europe and has seen an increase of units thanks to the introduction of a super-efficient 520d model. GT customers do not cater to adopt the opinions of other people. The 3er GT will bring prospective ownership to a new segment and we have to consider business customers aswell as new to the brand customers which our research had shown where the larger majority base that bought the 5er GT.

One market where the GT has excelled is China , on the streets of Europe a GT and a Mercedes-Benz R-Klasse are a rarity, not in China they are not.
GT customers in China choose it over the higher status of the Chinese only market 5er Li. The 3er Li which went on sale this past few months is also dominating the market and the 3er GT will also be available for Chinese customers.

The 5er Gran Turismo did not exactly win universal praise . But I have one and there is a dedicated forum here for owners , including from the US who can actually voice their opinion on why they chose the 5er GT. Or actually they cant because they become drowned out.

The GT series is a car that extends the customers option of a sedan,Touring, SAV and a MPV in one package but the car excells more in its excellent top-flight cabin and refinement heavily overlooked because of reaction to the exterior.

The 3er GT is an extension off of the architecture that sits under the new range of BMW's primarily F20 and F30 , the car is entirely cost effective to manufacturer from an economic perspective. BMW's CEO has publically claimed that the 3er GT is a car that will provide a substantial return because its development is already bought and paid for.

The 3er GT features more than the 5er GT its less business-like and retains the priotities of a 3er meaning that there will be areas for the keen to driver to exploit as per the segment. For what the 5er and 3er Gran Turismo represent is that for the customer they can have that much needed functionality and flexibility but with more style and individuality.

As long as there are new niches to exploit and new markets to explore BMW will continue to expand on the opportunity to appeal to a global audience.
U said the F07 has done well in Europe & in China, any sales figures? AFAIK BMW had to throw in a lot of free extras in Europe in order to sell the cars. For example in UK very expensive options such as HUD, adaptive drive & comfort seats had to be given away. These are not individual dealer offers but offer by BMWUK. The 520d GT is a reaction to the poor sales & it didn't help at all as the engine is massively overwhelmed by the heavy body.
In China it's appeal is limited by the fact that the market much preferred traditional 4dr saloons & that it's priced in between a 5er Li & a F01/02. If u can pay that much (RMB1.7m for a 550iGT) u'd rather have sth that starts with a "7". Sales of the F07 is virtually non-existent in most SE Asian markets due to heavy taxation on imports. The only place where it has moderate success is Hong Kong, but then again that's due to it's lower pricing compared to the equvalent F10/11.
The F07 itself have a lot of fundamental flaws to the product, not least there are issues with it's packaging (bad boot space when u want respectable rear legroom & vice versa, exterior dimensions too big, car too heavy) & compromised chassis dynamics. It's neither a saloon (styling not graceful enough), nor a touring (badly compromised cargo *******, it's not a SAV (doesn't have the looks nor the drivetrain) & definitely not a MPV (only 5 seats).
Yes, we live in a globalised world now & sales growth of luxury cars are much higher in BRIC/emerging markets than the western world, but the tastes & requirements of those markets are not of the niche occupied by GT. In fact if such a niche is so lucrative then why no headlong rush by other premium manufacturers? U did talk abt the Merc R-class, it's a relative success in some markets not because it's a successful niche product, but for those markets luxury SUMPVs are considered as direct competitors to traditional luxury saloons. Then again in those markets it's outsold by it's 2 competitors by a huge margin, & both are Japanese (Toyota Vellfire/Alphard & Nissan Elgrand).
In 2011, USA is still the largest market for BMW in sales volume (over 18%), then comes Germany (17%) & China (14%). For 2012 the status quo likely remains as growth of luxury car sales in China slowed dramatically due to clampdown by the PRC govt.
BMW has mostly got good track record in entering established market segments, the main exception being the 1er as a lot of their sales are to fleet/rental markets in Europe. The X5 went into the premium SUV segment with great success due to a very good product. On the other hand BMW is not very good at creating new market niches, & that's due entirely to products that are strangely off-song when compared to their more mainstream products, as well as the so-called niche itself being poorly defined with huge overlaps on either side of the market. Ok, the 3er GT is all paid for but resources are still used up during R&D, which I think should be better utilised by spending it on other branches of the F3x line where success is guaranteed if they get the product right.
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      12-03-2012, 03:15 PM   #256
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Quote:
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Found almost all the naysayers and whiners on 5GT or 3GT are from North America. But honestly, i say, 5GT ain't no beauty and its ok with Asia (don't consider us the same as China - cos our taste can be much more sophisticated than the fast-emerging country from past communism).
It's ok in HK cos the 535iGT offers better VFM than F10 535i (similar price but u get soft close doors & 4 zone climate as standard). It's only ok in HK because of that, so u can imagine BMW AG is making less money on it than the F10.
For other parts of Asia the traditional BMW products still dominates.
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      12-03-2012, 03:17 PM   #257
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At least this is more of a 4 door fast back. Unlike the 5 gt which is like a sedan/wagon/hatch thing.
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      12-03-2012, 03:21 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
BMW CANNOT remain independent if they do not satisfy global demand. And if you want your 3 Series and M3 to remain at the top of the game, then accept the rules of the game*.
Global demand is on the 3er & their mainstream lines, the problem is the F07 is not selling like hot cakes in all major markets. The GT will not save BMW if the push comes to the shove.
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      12-03-2012, 03:22 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
U said the F07 has done well in Europe & in China, any sales figures? AFAIK BMW had to throw in a lot of free extras in Europe in order to sell the cars. For example in UK very expensive options such as HUD, adaptive drive & comfort seats had to be given away. These are not individual dealer offers but offer by BMWUK. The 520d GT is a reaction to the poor sales & it didn't help at all as the engine is massively overwhelmed by the heavy body.
In China it's appeal is limited by the fact that the market much preferred traditional 4dr saloons & that it's priced in between a 5er Li & a F01/02. If u can pay that much (RMB1.7m for a 550iGT) u'd rather have sth that starts with a "7". Sales of the F07 is virtually non-existent in most SE Asian markets due to heavy taxation on imports. The only place where it has moderate success is Hong Kong, but then again that's due to it's lower pricing compared to the equvalent F10/11.
The F07 itself have a lot of fundamental flaws to the product, not least there are issues with it's packaging (bad boot space when u want respectable rear legroom & vice versa, exterior dimensions too big, car too heavy) & compromised chassis dynamics. It's neither a saloon (styling not graceful enough), nor a touring (badly compromised cargo *******, it's not a SAV (doesn't have the looks nor the drivetrain) & definitely not a MPV (only 5 seats).
Yes, we live in a globalised world now & sales growth of luxury cars are much higher in BRIC/emerging markets than the western world, but the tastes & requirements of those markets are not of the niche occupied by GT. In fact if such a niche is so lucrative then why no headlong rush by other premium manufacturers? U did talk abt the Merc R-class, it's a relative success in some markets not because it's a successful niche product, but for those markets luxury SUMPVs are considered as direct competitors to traditional luxury saloons. Then again in those markets it's outsold by it's 2 competitors by a huge margin, & both are Japanese (Toyota Vellfire/Alphard & Nissan Elgrand).
In 2011, USA is still the largest market for BMW in sales volume (over 18%), then comes Germany (17%) & China (14%). For 2012 the status quo likely remains as growth of luxury car sales in China slowed dramatically due to clampdown by the PRC govt.
BMW has mostly got good track record in entering established market segments, the main exception being the 1er as a lot of their sales are to fleet/rental markets in Europe. The X5 went into the premium SUV segment with great success due to a very good product. On the other hand BMW is not very good at creating new market niches, & that's due entirely to products that are strangely off-song when compared to their more mainstream products, as well as the so-called niche itself being poorly defined with huge overlaps on either side of the market. Ok, the 3er GT is all paid for but resources are still used up during R&D, which I think should be better utilised by spending it on other branches of the F3x line where success is guaranteed if they get the product right.
+1 finally a succint dose of realism
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      12-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Much negativity but again no one listens.
The auto industry is a global playing field. This is no longer about you.

BMW used to be a predictable car company we only made exciting cars for the enthusiast driver yet neglected the needs and demands from other customers for exciting cars to allow them to fullfill their daily requirements.

[omitted for brevity]

As long as there are new niches to exploit and new markets to explore BMW will continue to expand on the opportunity to appeal to a global audience.
I get it, and by all means, I want BMW to do whatever it takes to remain viable, even if it means producing a minivan. GO FOR IT! But...

...

...

Still ugly
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Last edited by bradleyland; 12-03-2012 at 03:31 PM. Reason: shortened
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      12-03-2012, 03:28 PM   #261
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I would rather rub someone else's poop all over myself than look at this car one more time.

BMW GT Bodystyle - EPIC FAIL
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      12-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
China is where the money is at, not the US. We already know they are going to buy these things up like no other (I saw a crap load of black 5 GTs in China earlier this year).
Not really, not the GT. The meat is in the 5er & 3er LI as they want a share in the govt official vehicle procurement list, but earlier in the yr the PRC govt decided to vastly reduce the budget & limit cars from domestic brands only. The market leader in PRC is still Audi as it's entrenched in their consumer's mindset, which is why Buick is such a success there for GM.
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      12-03-2012, 03:32 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Much negativity but again no one listens.
The auto industry is a global playing field. This is no longer about you.
BMW can make a car that looks like an ass (3 series GT is a good starting point), and put 50 M badges on it. If that's how they can make money, so be it, I really don't care. In fact I support it. BMW should make money.

But for God's sake, make 1 or 2 decent, light weight sports car. Enough with ugly, bloated crossovers, GT cars etc. Is the world coming to an end? Toyabaru is making what BMW should be making!
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      12-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I get it, and by all means, I want BMW to do whatever it takes to remain viable, even if it means producing a minivan. GO FOR IT! But...

...

...

Still ugly
If it looks good, handles well & is top of the class in everything then why not? Luxury MPVs have high profit margins & sells well in PRC/SE Asian countries.
I think if they did a MPV with a length of around 4.8m but with good packaging & versatility (plus the core BMW values) then the product will sell for itself over here.
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