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      12-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #749
claykin
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Yes, that's called "match mounting", and using the dots is the "correct" starting point to mount and balanace.
The problem is nearly no tire shop nor it's employees bother to use match mounting as a good starting point. I would expect TireRacks installers to know better, but maybe it was a newer less experienced installer.
Yes, it should be basic tire installer knowledge and practice, but the real world can suck.
You are correct that most tire shops have no clue what that mark is for. Sad! I have educated a few. Had a few tell me I'm wrong then they research it and realize I'm right. Smart consumers win.

That said, there's times that even that approach needs to be modified to obtain a balance with minimal weight. Not often, but it does happen when the wheel is not true.

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I didn't make any qualitative comments regarding the intelligence or ability of their employees nor am I defending them
As I stated, they've done a great job on my cars before, but this time it looks like too much weight.
I simply pointed out that the tire ship you called stupid is the TireRack.
They mount and balance a LOT of tires, so there is a lot of experience there.
In 2009 Tirerack shipped 3 year old tires when I ordered new tires for my E46. I called to ask why and their reply was "they are within the 6 year window...". 6 year window is for use, not sale! They also said I should have asked them for new date codes when ordering. Foolish of them. They should return old crap to the manufacturer or specify stale stock on their website. Period. (I now know to ask TR to call me back with date codes before shipping!!!).

Don't get me wrong, TR is a great option for purchasing tires. Its just that they are not infallible.

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My tires are balanced, there is no vibration at any speed.
Yes, there is a lot of weights on there, but they are balanced.
Thats good.

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How much weight is too much?
TireRack rep says there isn't an industry standard. TireRack states, and uses, that no more than 1% of the wheel + tire weight be used.
I don't know the exact weight of the OEM 18" Msport wheel, but let's say it's 27lbs. The tire weighs a hefty 27lbs.
54lbs total = 864oz. 1% of 864oz = 8.64oz.
That would be the extreme limit. I don't know exactly, I have to check, but I don't think there is that much.
TireRack uses 1/4oz each weights, and they are made of steel not lead. Lead weights are denser so there is less visible weight when balancing. With steel weights it will look like more weight in comparison.
Lead weights are frowned upon due to their impact on the environment. Europe has banned them. US-EPA has set an initiative to ban them. http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/wastemin/nlfwwi.htm

Interesting that Tirerack claims they can balance using up to 1% of tire+wheel weight. NUTS! The max weight for a car tire should be 0.5% of the combined or 1% of the tire weight. Applying 8oz of stick on weights to a BMW wheel would mean a strip that's 16" long (using typical weights). A 16" strip would not even balance out the issue!

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TireRack does use a Hunter Road Force balancing machine, the standard and best.
Using too much weight looks bad cosmetically, but as long as the balance is smooth and the car runs smooth, it's all good.
True, true and true!

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I'm going back to exchange these Bridgestones for a different set of tires.
This time I will be checking the install and balancing before leaving cause I don't like seeing that many weights on the wheel.
Just tell them you are particular and would prefer for them to match the mark with the valve stem. Also let them know if the weight req'd is more than 3oz you'd like the tire broken down and rotated on wheel. Many (quality) shops will do this without an argument.
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      12-09-2012, 10:30 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
I am very interested in your findings. My wheels/tires were road forced balanced, but there is still vibration. And no longer at a particular speed, but all the time. Allthough it is minor, is it still visible in the wheel and very annoying on the freeway.

Has anybody else have succes with the new rack, where balancing didn't help?
I can feel the vibration is other parts of the car two (doorhandle, arm rest). Will this disappear as well with the new rack?
I drove the car pretty extensively this weekend. The new rack appears to have solved my problems. What you're describing is much worse than I ever experienced. One suggestion, drop that thing off at the dealer, get a loaner, and don't pick it up until its fixed. Also, start looking at the Lemon Laws in your state and maybe place a call to BMWNA.
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      12-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #751
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I think the temperature effect is correct. On rainy days, I noticed that vibration almost went away. I thought the water made the tire touch the surface better. However, I now think it is the temperature.

DC_BMW, your vibration now is just like mine's used to be. I felt the vibration at any speed. When I touched the arm rest and front dash board or the iDrive system, I felt the vibration all the time, even when not driving, but engine temperature was around 250.

I would strongly suggest you take the advice of NV328. It is better than speaking with us. No one in this thread can solve your specific problems. Only you can help yourself. Bringing this discussion thread to your dealer or BMWNA won't solve your problems. They would say we don't care(obligation), and they are right. Know your rights and use them. It will save you time.
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      12-10-2012, 12:36 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by kirklander View Post
I think the temperature effect is correct. On rainy days, I noticed that vibration almost went away. I thought the water made the tire touch the surface better. However, I now think it is the temperature.

DC_BMW, your vibration now is just like mine's used to be. I felt the vibration at any speed. When I touched the arm rest and front dash board or the iDrive system, I felt the vibration all the time, even when not driving, but engine temperature was around 250.

I would strongly suggest you take the advice of NV328. It is better than speaking with us. No one in this thread can solve your specific problems. Only you can help yourself. Bringing this discussion thread to your dealer or BMWNA won't solve your problems. They would say we don't care(obligation), and they are right. Know your rights and use them. It will save you time.
Did you solve this with a rack or a f10?
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      12-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #753
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F10.
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      12-10-2012, 04:40 PM   #754
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F10.
Sigh. ...
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      12-12-2012, 10:08 PM   #755
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Originally Posted by mobius80 View Post
I had this problem since the beginning with my 328, and had been following this thread very carefully.

However, recently, I have noticed that the vibration was completely gone. I'm now having 12500km on the odometer, and I'm not sure exactly when the vibration went away.

Not done anything to improve things (not have changed tires, not have performed alignment, etc).

Anyone else experienced this?

Hey Mobius. I posted here a long time ago with the same vibration concerns.

Now with 6,500 miles, that part of the problem is gone. Like you, I did nothing to fix it (other than 4 trips to the dealership) and can't say when it actually went away. But it NEVER does it now....

As for the "whirring" sound when on the highway, or decelerating from about 80mph, that is just getting louder. Guess I'll have to find a thread to get that one fixed !!

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      12-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #756
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Now with 6,500 miles, that part of the problem is gone. Like you, I did nothing to fix it (other than 4 trips to the dealership) and can't say when it actually went away. But it NEVER does it now....

~Z
It's now known that it's temperature sensitive. I bet it's a lot colder in Michigan now.
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      12-12-2012, 10:43 PM   #757
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It's now known that it's temperature sensitive. I bet it's a lot colder in Michigan now.
Good call ! Makes things worse then since if the dealership won't look at something not happening? LoL

I guess we wait for the update on vibration for when it warms up. I will have them drive again next week. The wind is supposed to be low and hope that the tech will hear the front end noise next time ......

Thanks JeffC !
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      12-12-2012, 11:22 PM   #758
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Good call ! Makes things worse then since if the dealership won't look at something not happening? LoL

I guess we wait for the update on vibration for when it warms up. I will have them drive again next week. The wind is supposed to be low and hope that the tech will hear the front end noise next time ......

Thanks JeffC !
I just hope I'll avoid this. I held out for PW45 at first to get the new nav system. It's clear that won't happen, but I'm not complaining about getting the fixed steering rack (not to mention any other engineering changes made for the Euro 2013 model year that NA didn't go out of its way to exclude). But I did order the DHP, which should improve my odds regardless.
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      12-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #759
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Picked up my car today after a the new rack was installed. From the first 10 kilometers I get the impression the annoying vibrations are strongly dampened up to a level that it will not be annoying anymore.
I'll report back after in a while.
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      12-21-2012, 08:18 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
Picked up my car today after a the new rack was installed. From the first 10 kilometers I get the impression the annoying vibrations are strongly dampened up to a level that it will not be annoying anymore.
I'll report back after in a while.
What was the p/n of the rack installed?
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      12-21-2012, 09:15 PM   #761
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Hello guys,

I too have joined the steering wheel vibration car club. Just pick up my car today, with the new rack installed (part#: 32-10-6-863-000) however, no luck.

The vibration still exists, and now not only does the steering still shake, the entire car now shakes. Kind of feels like one of those seat massagers now. heh.

Looks like BMW NA is reviewing my case, I'm asking for a buy-back/trade assist.
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      12-21-2012, 10:20 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Synikal View Post
Hello guys,

I too have joined the steering wheel vibration car club. Just pick up my car today, with the new rack installed (part#: 32-10-6-863-000) however, no luck.

The vibration still exists, and now not only does the steering still shake, the entire car now shakes. Kind of feels like one of those seat massagers now. heh.

Looks like BMW NA is reviewing my case, I'm asking for a buy-back/trade assist.
Did service replace rack with the p/n you posted? That p/n does not appear in the US parts catalog. Maybe its a re manufactured p/n?

What month was your car built?
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      12-22-2012, 03:20 AM   #763
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What was the p/n of the rack installed?
I have no idea, sorry.
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      12-22-2012, 03:29 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by Synikal View Post
Hello guys,

I too have joined the steering wheel vibration car club. Just pick up my car today, with the new rack installed (part#: 32-10-6-863-000) however, no luck.

The vibration still exists, and now not only does the steering still shake, the entire car now shakes. Kind of feels like one of those seat massagers now. heh.

Looks like BMW NA is reviewing my case, I'm asking for a buy-back/trade assist.
Sounds like they balanced the wheels/tires too. This usually solves balance issues or spreads a single speed issue to the entire range.
Is the car vibrating when idle?

I think the new rack has better vibration absorption, but doesn't solve then root cause.
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      12-22-2012, 09:55 AM   #765
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2013 328i xDrive Msport Nov built date, no DHP. Pirelli P7 All season.

260 miles now and haven't experience any wheel vibration
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      12-22-2012, 10:46 AM   #766
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Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
Picked up my car today after a the new rack was installed. From the first 10 kilometers I get the impression the annoying vibrations are strongly dampened up to a level that it will not be annoying anymore.
I'll report back after in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
Sounds like they balanced the wheels/tires too. This usually solves balance issues or spreads a single speed issue to the entire range.
Is the car vibrating when idle?

I think the new rack has better vibration absorption, but doesn't solve the root cause.
Why do you sense there is still more to it? Too artificial in the damping feeling?

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      12-22-2012, 01:06 PM   #767
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My car has a lot of turbulence at around 80km/h... Goes away if u speed up and higher rpm.

No shaking on steering wheel tho. Just the car.....
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      12-23-2012, 03:30 AM   #768
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Why do you sense there is still more to it? Too artificial in the damping feeling?

HighlandPete
Type rack itself can hardly be the root cause. Especially when standing still.
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      12-23-2012, 09:31 AM   #769
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2013 335i M-sport, W45 build date. Winter reps on. Temp is 5 to -20C. No DHP. NO VIBRATION. Knock on wood! 600km's so far. Mix of heavy city, city, and long distance driving.
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      12-23-2012, 10:24 AM   #770
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2013 335i M-sport, W45 build date. Winter reps on. Temp is 5 to -20C. No DHP. NO VIBRATION. Knock on wood! 600km's so far. Mix of heavy city, city, and long distance driving.
PW45+, you should be fine.
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