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      12-24-2012, 05:11 AM   #771
HighlandPete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
Type rack itself can hardly be the root cause. Especially when standing still.
So you are talking of vibrations when just running the engine... nothing to do with motion and the steering as such. Felt through the car and steering wheel?

Are you simply feeling a high level of NVH at idle?

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      12-24-2012, 11:46 AM   #772
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NVH?
Don't know that acronym.
But yes, I feel vibrations with the engine running at zero km/h.

It seems like the wheel is most relaxed when driving downhill. Therefore I suspect the engine to be a root cause.
The vibrations are at its worse when driving uphill on low revs (around 1400 rpm)

I made an appointment with a tire specialist (not bow) to second the statement that "all has been done" with the tires. I can here a humming sounds from the tires when driving instead of a constant zooming. Therefore I think one or more tires are not as round as they should be.
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      12-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_bmw View Post
NVH?
Don't know that acronym.
But yes, I feel vibrations with the engine running at zero km/h.

It seems like the wheel is most relaxed when driving downhill. Therefore I suspect the engine to be a root cause.
The vibrations are at its worse when driving uphill on low revs (around 1400 rpm)

I made an appointment with a tire specialist (not bow) to second the statement that "all has been done" with the tires. I can here a humming sounds from the tires when driving instead of a constant zooming. Therefore I think one or more tires are not as round as they should be.
DC_BMW, your case is similar to what I have had. Car vibrates even when not driving. Drive for a while, let the engine heat up and then turn off auto start/stop, and stop the car ( 0 mph ) and give it a shot.
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      12-25-2012, 11:54 AM   #774
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NVH = Noise Vibration Harshness

Essentially an engineering term relating to the chassis dynamics of a vehicle relating to feel and sound.

If you're experiencing vibrations at rest, it has zero to do with the steering, tires or anything else. Perhaps you have a bum motor mount or something related.
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      12-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #775
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So after 36 pages, does everyone agree that replacing the updated rack (used in week 45 production onward) corrects this issue?
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      12-25-2012, 07:02 PM   #776
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Originally Posted by M3@Apex View Post
So after 36 pages, does everyone agree that replacing the updated rack (used in week 45 production onward) corrects this issue?
Too new to say for sure. PW45+ cars had several parts updated. Steering rack, steering column, steering lower joint, front wheel hubs.

I would discuss this with your dealer and see what they recommend. I'm told a bulletin was released in early November with guidance.

My PW45 car has zero vibration/wobble in steering. I also have DHP which has not been as heavily affected by vibration on earlier production cars.
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      12-25-2012, 07:36 PM   #777
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My PW45 car has no vibration issues. It is a m sport with Dynamic Handling Package. Just thought I would pass along for informational purposes.
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      12-26-2012, 08:26 AM   #778
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November production and no vibration. M Sport with DHP as well.
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      12-26-2012, 10:34 AM   #779
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November production and no vibration. M Sport with DHP as well.
November+ production rules!! Oh wait, we didn't get the new Nav.

Last edited by claykin; 12-26-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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      12-26-2012, 11:29 AM   #780
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November+ production rules!! Oh wait, we didn't get the new Nav.
New Nav... ?

I would settle for getting my mail and messages from the iPhone to the car!
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      12-26-2012, 04:06 PM   #781
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After a 100+ km drive to the Christmas Family meeting, I am 100% sure the problem isnt fixed with the new rack. The vibration is still present, although it seems a little less prominent.
I discussed and demonstrated the issue, and while we were talking inside my BMW juice shaker, I shifted into park and noticed there was no vibration anymore. I then shifted into D again, and there it was again. When driving at a constant speed the vibration is more prominent, but we all agreed the frequency seems the same, regardless of the speed.
Warm engine or cold, the symptoms stay the same. As soon as the car is in D (as opposed to P or N), the vibration comes alive.

I am no expert on 3-series internals, but i think the engineers should be looking at things like the gearbox and drivechain. After this discovery, we drove again on the freeway at a constant speed of 100km/h. We started in 8th gear, and then shifted back one gear at a time. The frequency of the vibration seemed to be constant.
Which part rotates a the same frequency regardless of the selected gear, given revs and speed?

I will report these findings back to BMW, demonstrate it, and wish them good luck with it.
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      12-26-2012, 04:13 PM   #782
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by the way. Selected Neutral when driving has no influence on the vibrations.
Any thoughts on the root cause?
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      12-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #783
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Just delivered november pw 45 328i sport line with no DHP
NO vibrations! I was so relieved!
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      12-26-2012, 05:04 PM   #784
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^^^

dc_bmw

The vibration description appears to have conflicts when you mention being stationary, gear engagement or not, driving at constant speed, and running down through the gears at fixed road speed.

There isn't common rpm for any part when you have an idling engine with output side to the drive train not in motion, then variable rpm from the engine and input side of the gearbox, including torque converter at different rpm as you use the gears. The constant vibration in motion at 100km/h would still look to be 'post gearbox' for picking up rotational induced vibrations. Engine induced vibrations (including engine ancillaries and torque converter) should typically change with rpm. Hard to picture the same harmonic vibrations from an engine across its rev range, from and including idle.

It is the gear selection position changes which intrigue me most, as if it is torque converter related, but how and why in such different situations and the rpm changes?

Need to think about this a bit more, as your description doesn't fit any usual model I've ever used for fault finding.

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      12-26-2012, 05:23 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
^^^

dc_bmw

The vibration description appears to have conflicts when you mention being stationary, gear engagement or not, driving at constant speed, and running down through the gears at fixed road speed.

There isn't common rpm for any part when you have an idling engine with output side to the drive train not in motion, then variable rpm from the engine and input side of the gearbox, including torque converter at different rpm as you use the gears. The constant vibration in motion at 100km/h would still look to be 'post gearbox' for picking up rotational induced vibrations. Engine induced vibrations (including engine ancillaries and torque converter) should typically change with rpm. Hard to picture the same harmonic vibrations from an engine across its rev range, from and including idle.

It is the gear selection position changes which intrigue me most, as if it is torque converter related, but how and why in such different situations and the rpm changes?

Need to think about this a bit more, as your description doesn't fit any usual model I've ever used for fault finding.

HighlandPete
As an engineer i learned that if the observed doenst match with an understood issue, it is a new issue or a combination of one or more issues. This may well be a combination of a balance issue and another issue.
The vibration when driving has similarties with balance issues. If you look closely at 100kmh, there is a small shimmy visible (sometimes).
However, this cannot be the reason for the vibration felt when standing still with D engaged.
the frequency match can be a coincence. But as i do not have the tools to measure the frequency, i cannot be certain.

Meanwhile i watched a youtube clip about the ZF8. The torque converter would be my guess too.
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      12-26-2012, 07:30 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by Ron Scott View Post
New Nav... ?

I would settle for getting my mail and messages from the iPhone to the car!
Maybe new Nav doesn't have same iOS issues?? Anyone from Europe care to respond? Totally wrong thread , but RonScott maybe its worth starting a new thread to see if the new Nav is affected same. Either way, it won't help you and we have to hope BMW works this out and updates the Combox accordingly.

I'm a BB 9900 owner and my Office msgs work just fine. One reason to stick with Blackberry.
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      12-27-2012, 03:02 PM   #787
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One of the reasons I ordered DHP was to avoid the steering wheel vibration. Looks like my build may have been late enough that it wouldn't have mattered either way.

I'll test it out before signing the final paperwork to be sure.
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      12-28-2012, 09:20 AM   #788
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I visited the tire specialist today. All four tires had balance issues between 5 and 20 grams. Even though the tires were balanced and road forced balanced about three week ago.
Additionally, three out of four tires showed whobbles in the shoulder (side wall). (the side of the tire is not completely flat. Only one tire 'looked like a new tire would', according to the specialist.
They rebalanced all wheels and moved the best tire to the front right position. However, the steering wheel still shakes. They think the whobbles in the tires can be the source.
I then went back to BMW and showed the results. They now escalate to BMW NL and have their tech look at my car. The chief mechanic drove with me and is convinced this is abnormal behaviour for van 320, especially when the steering rack has been replaced.
We agreed they will not return my car as long as they issue is there, even if this means they have to reorder a new one.
I made a video of the shaking. It is quite hard to see, but in the second part i press the phone to the wheel. You can see the shaking. Please not that the car drives over a ridge in the road. This is not visible in the wheel. The suspension seems oke.


The second vid shows the whobbles.

Please look at the spots on the floor for reference

Last edited by dc_bmw; 12-28-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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      12-31-2012, 01:02 AM   #789
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dc_bmw,

I wish you the best in your pursuit of happiness with your BMW.
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      01-10-2013, 06:27 AM   #790
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I'm driving a new F31 320D as from end of november.
The car has the standard steering, so no Servotronic and no VSS.
From the beginning, I felt a light steering vibration, at random moments, it's not always there but most of the time it is, and mostly at speeds between 60-120 km/h. During cornering the vibration is much less noticeable.
Am I having the well known "Steering vibration problem" or am I dreaming? I don't see the steering wheel vibrating, it's never really shaking, but when holding both hands on it, there is definitely a light vibration.
I've driven an E90 for more then 4 years, and this car never had any steering vibrations.
So for me even the slightest steering vibration is not normal.
I'm thinking of contacting the dealer to explain the problem.
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      01-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #791
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I am afraid so. Do you feel the vibration when you engage drive while standing still and holding on to the brake?
Is tire pressure equal left and right?
Are the tires ok?
Im going back on Monday. I expect the tires to be replaced but fear for what you describe because I feel vibrations when holding still with drive selected. Bmw nl will look at my car next week if new ties do not proof to be a solution.
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      01-10-2013, 11:33 PM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik82 View Post
I'm driving a new F31 320D as from end of november.
The car has the standard steering, so no Servotronic and no VSS.
From the beginning, I felt a light steering vibration, at random moments, it's not always there but most of the time it is, and mostly at speeds between 60-120 km/h. During cornering the vibration is much less noticeable.
Am I having the well known "Steering vibration problem" or am I dreaming? I don't see the steering wheel vibrating, it's never really shaking, but when holding both hands on it, there is definitely a light vibration.
I've driven an E90 for more then 4 years, and this car never had any steering vibrations.
So for me even the slightest steering vibration is not normal.
I'm thinking of contacting the dealer to explain the problem.
Please look at the manufacture label inside your drivers door. Report back the build month.
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