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      12-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Yep, the pre 5.0 GT's were a joke. I'm just stunned that the V6 is as good an all around performer than the 335, that one makes me sad. I've always thought of the pony cars as drag strip only cars. And if you got the V6, well then you just got a mustang in name only. I guess I never really looked at what the V6 could do because that one really surprised me all the way around. Amazing what you can get for your money when buying American muscle these days.

At first I didn't believe all the hype of the 5.0 when it came out being basically a M3 level performer at half the cost. If the interior/fit and finish would have been anywhere near what the F30/Audi's felt like I'd probably have picked one up myself instead of my car.
For handling and M3 like performance, the Boss 302 is the one to watch.
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      12-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #24
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You have to take any set of track #'s with a grain of salt, especially when there's such small deltas between many of the #'s.

You can't be upset if a car posts almost as good of a time on track, because the 335i was never built as a track car. It's interesting that even with the 3 #'s that were posted, there was a 3 second delta between the original E92 and the F30, but the 335is was slower?

Plus the N55 is tuned to be an engine to live with on a daily basis, not necessarily for high RPM track work (where a V6 mustang engine/transmission is useless in day to day driving).

And you should never get caught up in the "This car cost less and is faster" because if that were the case we'd all be driving souped up Subaru's.
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      12-30-2012, 06:02 PM   #25
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American cars are still gas guzzlers though.
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      12-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #26
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American cars are still gas guzzlers though.
The new C7 will be a cool counter example.
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      12-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #27
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new mustang boss handed me my ass on a platter on the highway today up to 100..I have a drop-in and JB4 Stg 1. At least he was cool about it..lol.
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      12-30-2012, 06:33 PM   #28
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American cars are still gas guzzlers though.
Where are you getting your information?
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      12-30-2012, 06:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I'm just stunned that the V6 is as good an all around performer than the 335, that one makes me sad. I've always thought of the pony cars as drag strip only cars. And if you got the V6, well then you just got a mustang in name only.
Unfortunately this is a view held by many. Kudos to you for your willingness to reconsider in light of information.

American cars have possessed excellent competitive performance for years, as well as excellent day-to-day driveability. Unfortunately, many are so biased against domestic manufactures that the facts get in the way. The Mustang's reliability will also easily take on the 335.

The oft-repeated description of the 335 as a handling and performance "beast" in this forum always makes me smile. This claim says more about the lack of experience of the writer with performance machinery than it describes the car. The F30 is a great car, but it has a different role to play.
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      12-30-2012, 06:38 PM   #30
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American cars are still gas guzzlers though.
Hardly.

Surprisingly, my Z06 competes with my 335 for MPG, with just a tad less weight . . . and a wee bit more power.
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      12-30-2012, 06:41 PM   #31
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Unfortunately this is a view held by many. Kudos to you for your willingness to reconsider in light of information.

American cars have possessed excellent competitive performance for years, as well as excellent day-to-day driveability. Unfortunately, many are so biased against domestic manufactures that the facts get in the way. The Mustang's reliability will also easily take on the 335.

The oft-repeated description of the 335 as a handling and performance "beast" in this forum always makes me smile. This claim says more about the lack of experience of the writer with performance machinery than it describes the car. The F30 is a great car, but it has a different role to play.
Indeed. I totally agree.
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      12-30-2012, 06:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I looked at some of the historical figures from last year and was thoroughly disappointed at the numbers BMW is putting out compared to some of the Chevy's and Fords. I expected straight line performance to be slower, but for the 'ultimate driving machine' to out class them on the track.

The thing that stood out the most was the Ford Mustang V6 and it basically equaling the 335i on the track. That seems ridiculous. For some reason I expected the 335i to keep up with the Mustang GT and Camaro SS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And not sure what's up with the 335is being slower than the new 335i either, but the old 335i being faster (they talked about how much faster the early models were compared to the later ones, 2008ish vs later models).

Sadly the M3 isn't much faster (about 3 seconds) than the old Mustang GT, and I suspect would be slower than the current model as the new SS Camaro is about 3 seconds faster than the M3 (while costing about $30k less, talk about performance per $$$). The new Camaro ZL1 and Shelby GT500 just spank any of the M's, which just makes me sad since they cost substantially less. All that talk about the American cars being too heavy and the Mustang's dated live axle should just die now because they're just beasts in both a straight line and on the track, not to mention cheap. You can actually buy a ZL1 for about what you pay for a loaded 335i.

For reference:
Time / Car / Date
2.57.5 / Camaro ZL1/ New
3.00.6 / Shelby GT500 / New
3:01.5 / Camaro SS / New
3:05.4/ BMW M3/ Feb 2011
3:08.6/ Mustang GT 5.0 / Feb 2011
3:09.5/ Camaro SS / Feb 2010
3:10.5/ BMW 335i Coupe/ August 2007
3:13.2/ BMW 335i / New
3:13.3/ Ford Mustang V6 / Feb 2011
3:13.8/ BMW 335is / Feb 2012
You need to be careful comparing times from different drivers on different days. So many variables that tests from previous years are only somewhat useful in comparing results this year.

Also, 3 seconds is a BIG difference... if the M3 is 3 seconds faster that is meaningful On a track, waiting 3 seconds between cars is significant. But, even then, it is hard to compare as the M3 was tested on a different day, different time and different driver.
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      12-30-2012, 08:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
You need to be careful comparing times from different drivers on different days. So many variables that tests from previous years are only somewhat useful in comparing results this year.

Also, 3 seconds is a BIG difference... if the M3 is 3 seconds faster that is meaningful On a track, waiting 3 seconds between cars is significant. But, even then, it is hard to compare as the M3 was tested on a different day, different time and different driver.
Dually noted. I think, in this particular test, the cars were driven by multiple drivers and the best time won (at least I think I read that...)

I have a feeling the newer 5.0 would have been even closer to the M3 as it got a bump in power and some other tweaks. The new Camaro SS is about 4 seconds faster than the M3, but it has a better suspension than the Mustang.
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      12-30-2012, 10:57 PM   #34
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Where are you getting your information?
F30 335i (23/33) vs Camero SS. (16/25). Please.

A freaking regular mustang v6 is 19/29!
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      12-31-2012, 12:54 AM   #35
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F30 335i (23/33) vs Camero SS. (16/25). Please.
You're going to compare a 3 liter 300 HP car to a 6.2 liter 426 HP muscle car for gas consumption comparisons? Give me a break. I'll go back to my EPA "SEARCH" of the 4 liter M3 (14/20) vs. the Mustang GT 5 liter (17/26.)
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      12-31-2012, 01:22 AM   #36
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[quote=Mark_K][quote=tdizzle;13227474

Let's just say I had no problem having a car that costed DOUBLE to his and he had no problem keeping the car that costed HALF. Different strokes for different folks.

Heck, even my Jetta TDI 5MT can take most of those corners at the same speed ... but the FEEL is absolutely and completely different. Some idiots (like myself) are willing to pay for that feel, even if the numbers say it ain't so [/QUOTE]



I'm sure I'll get flamed a bit for saying this but I agree. Most folks on the boards are BMW enthusiasts and truly believe that BMWs are the best sports cars on the road and that they just happen to have a good bit of luxury to them as we'll. I didn't buy my f30 because I wanted a super fast sports car, I wanted a luxury car that I could do some spirited driving with, and I am in no way disappointed. It is super quiet, even when going 100 mph on the autobahn, the acceleration at on-ramp speeds (20-80mph) is excellent, and the handling is superb, the HUD and technology is wonderful, and BMW has done it all while still getting 30 mpg.

I am positive that BMW could have engineered a much faster car by stripping out a lot of the luxury and not making the sacrifices (turbos have lags and thus some reductions in performance) with the engine but then it wouldn't have been a BMW.

Personally I love the car I got, I didn't want a race car, I wanted a driving experience.
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      12-31-2012, 02:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
You're going to compare a 3 liter 300 HP car to a 6.2 liter 426 HP muscle car for gas consumption comparisons? Give me a break. I'll go back to my EPA "SEARCH" of the 4 liter M3 (14/20) vs. the Mustang GT 5 liter (17/26.)
Calm down. You just want to prove your car is the best but you're still flat out wrong with regards to american car companies having fuel efficient vehicles. I'm done with your nonsense now.

Name:  Compare Side-by-Side2.jpg
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http://blog.truecar.com/2012/10/09/a...r-com-truempg/
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      12-31-2012, 01:59 PM   #38
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[quote=loosenit2;13230531]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K



I'm sure I'll get flamed a bit for saying this but I agree. Most folks on the boards are BMW enthusiasts and truly believe that BMWs are the best sports cars on the road and that they just happen to have a good bit of luxury to them as we'll. I didn't buy my f30 because I wanted a super fast sports car, I wanted a luxury car that I could do some spirited driving with, and I am in no way disappointed. It is super quiet, even when going 100 mph on the autobahn, the acceleration at on-ramp speeds (20-80mph) is excellent, and the handling is superb, the HUD and technology is wonderful, and BMW has done it all while still getting 30 mpg.

I am positive that BMW could have engineered a much faster car by stripping out a lot of the luxury and not making the sacrifices (turbos have lags and thus some reductions in performance) with the engine but then it wouldn't have been a BMW.

Personally I love the car I got, I didn't want a race car, I wanted a driving experience.
This is by far the best post on this thread so far. I just picked up a 335i Msport xdrive in EB2 with all the options. This will be my daily driver - I will get groceries in it, take people to the opera in it, take vacations in it. I live on the west coast of Canada which is very rainy in the winter. That is one of the reasons I wanted xdrive. I have a friend with a Shelby Mustang GT350 that pumps out 650 HP. He would beat me up in any sort of a track competition. It rumbles, shakes rattle and rolls and sucks up a tank of gas in a heartbeat. Fun! Certainly! But it isn't his daily driver. Couldn't live with it. And driving it when the traction isn't ideal is scary.

The 335i is a car that can be tracked. But that isn't its main purpose. If you want a track car there are better machines out there. That's why these comparo tests are kind of pointless! How about putting a DTM BMW out there, a purpose built race car and then the BMW would come out on top.

In other words, if track times are all that important, buy a race car

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      12-31-2012, 03:03 PM   #39
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[quote=loosenit2][quote=Mark_K]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle;13227474

Let's just say I had no problem having a car that costed DOUBLE to his and he had no problem keeping the car that costed HALF. Different strokes for different folks.

Heck, even my Jetta TDI 5MT can take most of those corners at the same speed ... but the FEEL is absolutely and completely different. Some idiots (like myself) are willing to pay for that feel, even if the numbers say it ain't so :)[/QUOTE



I'm sure I'll get flamed a bit for saying this but I agree. Most folks on the boards are BMW enthusiasts and truly believe that BMWs are the best sports cars on the road and that they just happen to have a good bit of luxury to them as we'll. I didn't buy my f30 because I wanted a super fast sports car, I wanted a luxury car that I could do some spirited driving with, and I am in no way disappointed. It is super quiet, even when going 100 mph on the autobahn, the acceleration at on-ramp speeds (20-80mph) is excellent, and the handling is superb, the HUD and technology is wonderful, and BMW has done it all while still getting 30 mpg.

I am positive that BMW could have engineered a much faster car by stripping out a lot of the luxury and not making the sacrifices (turbos have lags and thus some reductions in performance) with the engine but then it wouldn't have been a BMW.

Personally I love the car I got, I didn't want a race car, I wanted a driving experience.
I'm with you, for the price point I paid, I was looking at a really nice mustang/camaro, a used Audi S4, an Evo X, or a F30...


I thought the BMW would be the best blend of performance and handling out the gate, and it came in much cheaper than the American muscle cars I was considering...fear/bad experience of owning Fords in high school, college, and grad school, brought back horrors of the recall/reliability issues I had with American cars (I realize this has changed a bit since the 90s but still).

When the F30 EPA numbers were released, I thought this was it!! Alas, I had to spend another $3000 in suspension upgrades to get it where I want in the handling department, and its not as raw as a muscle car, BUT (compared to the boss/camaro/evo)I get:
4 doors
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Much nicer interior
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Tech/convenience that none of the other cars offered (HUD/CA/heated steering wheel)
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      12-31-2012, 03:13 PM   #40
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How did a thread about track performance dive off into a conversation about country and fuel economy numbers - lol.
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      12-31-2012, 03:17 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by loosenit2 View Post

This is by far the best post on this thread so far. I just picked up a 335i Msport xdrive in EB2 with all the options. This will be my daily driver - I will get groceries in it, take people to the opera in it, take vacations in it. I live on the west coast of Canada which is very rainy in the winter. That is one of the reasons I wanted xdrive. I have a friend with a Shelby Mustang GT350 that pumps out 650 HP. He would beat me up in any sort of a track competition. It rumbles, shakes rattle and rolls and sucks up a tank of gas in a heartbeat. Fun! Certainly! But it isn't his daily driver. Couldn't live with it. And driving it when the traction isn't ideal is scary.

The 335i is a car that can be tracked. But that isn't its main purpose. If you want a track car there are better machines out there. That's why these comparo tests are kind of pointless! How about putting a DTM BMW out there, a purpose built race car and then the BMW would come out on top.

In other words, if track times are all that important, buy a race car
Very true and also a very good post indeed.

I must say though that I think if I could do it over again I would have chosen the 328i since I've been seeing everyone's great gas mileage on the MPG tracking thread. That's the most balanced vehicle in my opinion. I'm curious as to how close of a time it would have gotten on that track.
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      12-31-2012, 03:19 PM   #42
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How did a thread about track performance dive off into a conversation about country and fuel economy numbers - lol.
LoL, that's my bad. I threw in the MPG stuff. Cuz they weren't comparing similar vehicles. Most of those cars on there were two door high performance coupes and they throw the 335i into the mix since it's been a long time standard. I'll post the rest of the article where they actually review the car...
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      12-31-2012, 03:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosenit2 View Post

This is by far the best post on this thread so far. I just picked up a 335i Msport xdrive in EB2 with all the options. This will be my daily driver - I will get groceries in it, take people to the opera in it, take vacations in it. I live on the west coast of Canada which is very rainy in the winter. That is one of the reasons I wanted xdrive. I have a friend with a Shelby Mustang GT350 that pumps out 650 HP. He would beat me up in any sort of a track competition. It rumbles, shakes rattle and rolls and sucks up a tank of gas in a heartbeat. Fun! Certainly! But it isn't his daily driver. Couldn't live with it. And driving it when the traction isn't ideal is scary.

The 335i is a car that can be tracked. But that isn't its main purpose. If you want a track car there are better machines out there. That's why these comparo tests are kind of pointless! How about putting a DTM BMW out there, a purpose built race car and then the BMW would come out on top.

In other words, if track times are all that important, buy a race car
Very true and also a very good post indeed.

I must say though that I think if I could do it over again I would have chosen the 328i since I've been seeing everyone's great gas mileage on the MPG tracking thread. That's the most balanced vehicle in my opinion. I'm curious as to how close of a time it would have gotten on that track.
Have test driven the 328i?

Theres a substantial reduction in performance and handling...
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      12-31-2012, 03:38 PM   #44
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Have test driven the 328i?

Theres a substantial reduction in performance and handling...
I have driven both. I actually spent a week driving all the European and Japanese competitors too. I can't explain it, but the feeling in the BMW was so much more natural.

When deciding, I drove the 328i M sport and 335i M sport back to back. I was content with the 328i, but it just didn't have the same sound as the 335i which is why I went with it. I thought in performance terms they were pretty close, ie. 328i with the edge in handling and 335i with edge in the straight line.
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