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      01-03-2013, 01:55 PM   #45
JonoNZ
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The M Sport isn't designed for taking to the track in any serious way, maybe a quick run around but it's not a track car, seriously. You need to prep the car before contemplating that -- M Performance at a minimum. The M Sport is more about a cosmetic package that is sportier in looks, not performance.

No one here knows for sure, but I suspect it's really about keeping the cost down. The M Sport cars in the US are already slightly lower spec'ed than other countries, there is a pattern emerging. Also, NBT Nav isn't included in any US F30 except the AH3, another example of getting away with the minimum spec in order to reach a price point.
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      01-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonoNZ View Post
No one here knows for sure, but I suspect it's really about keeping the cost down. The M Sport cars in the US are already slightly lower spec'ed than other countries, there is a pattern emerging. Also, NBT Nav isn't included in any US F30 except the AH3, another example of getting away with the minimum spec in order to reach a price point.
Good luck offsetting the $50k price difference, I'm sure that NBT thing and the no fog will help! Lol!
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      01-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #47
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Good luck offsetting the $50k price difference, I'm sure that NBT thing and the no fog will help! Lol!
Yep, there is a big difference for sure. But every cost they can pull out increases margin, along with every item they can move to the options list. I can't speak for other markets, but NZ cars come with a significant amount of extra standard options which you can't buy the car without. Don't get me wrong, we're still ripped off in NZ, but you can't compare the base RRP prices of these cars between NZ/US at all.
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      01-03-2013, 02:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
The marginal cost is only the additional parts.
As for no-fogs, BMW can offset the extra cost of the additional cooling with not fitting fogs.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the cost difference between fog lights vs. an additional cooling system added?
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      01-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #49
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I've read other countries pay more for a comparably configured car than the USA but I thought VAT and other taxes reflected the difference. Is it assumed US buyers want lower spec'ed cars or are other factors at play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonoNZ View Post
No one here knows for sure, but I suspect it's really about keeping the cost down. The M Sport cars in the US are already slightly lower spec'ed than other countries, there is a pattern emerging. Also, NBT Nav isn't included in any US F30 except the AH3, another example of getting away with the minimum spec in order to reach a price point.
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      01-03-2013, 02:35 PM   #50
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I've read other countries pay more for a comparably configured car than the USA but I thought VAT and other taxes reflected the difference. Is it assumed US buyers want lower spec'ed cars or are other factors at play?
No, in NZ we pay a lot more for a BMW than the US. Probably about 30-40% more. Our taxes are only GST/Sales tax (15%) and on-road costs (registration, etc) of about $900. The rest is difference in the car cost.

We are also a much smaller market so the fixed costs of running BMW NZ and the dealer network probably don't help, either.
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      01-03-2013, 02:47 PM   #51
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Recommendation: BMW here's way to satisfy a diverse group of M Sport customers. Offer fog lights as a free standing option, with an attached warning like one we see, ["buyer beware"] when ordering high performance low profile summer tires. To my point, living in the Chicago metro area I'll more likely get a speeding ticket before overheating my engine.
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      01-03-2013, 02:56 PM   #52
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Rocky Mountain BMWCCA member here and I've tracked it at High Plains Raceway.....well, not my new 335 M-Sport yet, but soon.

That said, I experienced Limp Mode for the first time today. Guess that makes me the 0.1% who tracks their car and has experienced Limp Mode.
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      01-03-2013, 03:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the cost difference between fog lights vs. an additional cooling system added?
U just need to add up the cost of 2 fogs+bulbs, wiring & the price difference between the light switch, then subtract the cost of the piping, the small rad & the electric pump.
Nobody outside of BMW knows the BOM but it should not be too dissimilar.
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      01-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by MotoEV View Post
I've read other countries pay more for a comparably configured car than the USA but I thought VAT and other taxes reflected the difference. Is it assumed US buyers want lower spec'ed cars or are other factors at play?
It depends mostly on the price a particular market can take, then comes volume. Obviously the margin is different for every market & BMW adjusts the standard spec depending on local factors (i.e. consumer requirements, technical standards, operating conditions etc). Wht their main competitors do in that particular market is also a factor.
Traditionally US is a very low margin market, with European markets being higher margin (except for UK). Nowadays Oz, NZ & Japan have become very high margin markets due to their currency strength. One or two Asian markets, such as Hong Kong & Macau, have low margins & low volume.
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      01-03-2013, 04:25 PM   #55
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Can we get back to the topic of how this different cooling setup can possibly cause the fan to go Full Blast and dead throttle when its not even hot outside?
That's an easy one. It's a bum thermostat or connection. T'stat thinks it's too hot so the fan kicks in and the ECU goes into limp mode when the t'stat doesn't drop out as expected. It's likely a bad connection or an actual faulty thermostat. I'm assuming it's configured such than an open loop mimics a high temp condition (as a fail safe).

This sort of failure would simply look like the actual failure condition to the ECU so I don't think a code would be set that the stat is bad. It's just a simple switch. If this happens, a trip to the dealer is in order. The upside is that it fails safe, so you won't overheat or coke your oil.
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      01-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I wouldn't want to catch you on a bad day!

ALSO, cars that are tracked should and are prepped for this purpose, nobody would track a stock F30 unless they were retarded or tracking it 2 times a year. SO, to rely on BMW to prep your car for tracking is a fail proposition. This can't be the explanation. The explanation is either economics or warm weather which is a little far fetched but not as much as the tracking explanation!
No you don't.

You don't need to do anything to track a BMW other than adjust your tire pressures. I didn't say RACE, I said take it on track. It's not about spending $$$ "prepping" your car. It's about working with what you've got and improving your driving skills.

I have a dedicated track car. I paid $3k for it and it currently has over 250k miles on it. I routinely lap guys in "prepared" M3s with twice the horsepower. You can't buy talent and you won't learn much of anything if you're driving a car that's smarter than you.
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      01-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #57
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Only thing I've seen recommended as far as prepping daily drivers for the track is getting the brakes bled.


So when I take my car in Monday for some coding work and I tell them about my Limp Mode experience, will the computer's history of the event point them in the right direction or will they blow me off? I'd love to go in telling them everything you've mentioned here, but if I'm "that guy" they'll give me attitude. As it is I had to explain the whole ASS coding to them.
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      01-03-2013, 08:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TheObviousChild View Post
Only thing I've seen recommended as far as prepping daily drivers for the track is getting the brakes bled.


So when I take my car in Monday for some coding work and I tell them about my Limp Mode experience, will the computer's history of the event point them in the right direction or will they blow me off? I'd love to go in telling them everything you've mentioned here, but if I'm "that guy" they'll give me attitude. As it is I had to explain the whole ASS coding to them.
I'd explain exactly what happened. The fans kicked on even though the oil temp was not high (try to note about where it was at the time) they did turn on. Then explain that power was drastically reduced and the fans never cycled off on their own. A restart corrected the fan issue and restored power. I would GUESS the event might have been logged as a high temp condition, but I honestly don't know exactly what's being logged in the F30. I can't imagine they'll give you too much grief. A tech "should" be able to prove out the functionality of the thermostat.
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      01-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I am going to make a change with where I auto-x.

I bought a hardtop for the Roadster just so I could track with the CCA. Nope, politics and fear of being sued keeps all open top cars from participating, even rollbar/hardtop cars. So I did events with the Audi club of all people.

Now with the F30, I can play in all their reindeer games
Audi club, lol!>?!?!?

Cool, PM when you finalize...turns out mclub.net went bellyup, it's been that many years...
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