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      01-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #23
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No one is going to claim RWD is better than AWD in the snow.

What they will claim is that RWD with good snow tires is better than AWD with all seasons.

If you had an issue then you'd have to ask if you were stuck on a patch of ice and if anything would have given you that pickup. The Pirellis are also a performance snow tire, so if you live in a very snowy area then you should have gotten Blizzaks or a true studless snow tire.
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      01-03-2013, 04:55 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by timberland1 View Post
Last week a snow storm hit us here, and the roads were not salted or plowed at 5 am. I ended up getting stuck trying to make a right on a very small hill. I had no grip and was stuck there for 30 mins until i wiggled my way out.

I have practically new 18" Pirelli Sottozero non-runflats and I'm still having problems. I am missing my x-drive on my e90 now, or better yet, should have waited for x-drive for the f30 =(

Any suggestions on what i should be doing to increase traction/grip in the winter? Any RWD pointers in winter?

I have heard that if i load my trunk with over 100+ lbs of junk, it would increase traction.

Thnks!
Do you have ZSL on you 328i? If so, you should be afraid -- VERY afraid -- of not just snow, but cold which makes the summer tires as hard as rocks.

Short story: My 335i with ZSL was in for service last Friday. A snow storm was arriving on Saturday. The dealer had given me an MY12 328i base car (no xDrive, but with all-season tires).

My plan was to get the car home on Friday and beat the storm. But the dealer decided to keep the car over the weekend.

I live at the end of a 400-ft cul-de-sac and then my driveway is another 100 feet off the cul-de-sac. Both have 6 or 7 degree climbs.

We got whacked with 10" of snow and by Monday, the temperatures had dropped to 12 degrees F. Obviously, we plowed our cul-de-sac and my driveway, but they remained snow-covered with an inch or so of snow. This snow cover got hard-packed by our cars and our neighbors' cars coming and going.

The loaner 328i had absolutely no problem with the hard-packed snow. It even scooted up my driveway backwards with no problem.

What about my car? When I got home from the dealer, I was able to get the car up the first part of the cul-de-sac. But there was no way it was going up the same driveway the 328i with all-seasons had had no problems with.

I spent New Year's Day trying to melt snow at the bottom of my driveway to get the 335i up it.

My learning from this? It's all about the tires. Sure, xDrive is great. But you really don't need it -- the two or three times you can really use it, you shouldn't be on the roads at all.

What you hear about summer tires getting as hard as rocks in the cold and having absolutely no -- and I mean ZERO -- traction on snow and ice are absolutely correct.
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      01-03-2013, 05:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
No one is going to claim RWD is better than AWD in the snow.

What they will claim is that RWD with good snow tires is better than AWD with all seasons.
Agreed 100% ! Snow tires are the most important factor for winter driving, especially when it comes to braking.
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      01-03-2013, 06:02 PM   #26
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I haven't driven that often yet in the snow. But the times that I have driven over winter roads, my 335i has handled great. No complaints whatsoever.

This is the first time I'm driving a RWD car. Maybe it's still too early in the winter season for me, but so far I can't even tell that my car handles like a RWD over winter roads.

It should be noted that my car is equipped with brand new Blizzak LM-60 performance winter tires. I spent A LOT of time researching the best winter tires before going with these and I think I made the right choice. (I was also considering the Blizzak WS-70, Nokian Hakka R, Michelin Xi3, and the Dunlop Winter Sport 3D.)

One of the main reasons I opted for the LM-60's is because where I live the streets get cleaned fairly quickly, and these winter performance tires are designed to provide excellent traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads (including heavy slush). And I know from experience that on MOST days throughout the winter months here, the road conditions will either be dry (no snow - dry pavement), light snow-covered roads, or slushy roads. I just won't drive on the 5 to 10 days of winter where the roads are a complete mess or covered in ice. I'll let a taxi do the dirty work on such days.

A thought just came to mind. I noticed the OP drives a 328i, whereas I drive a 335i which is the heavier car (by approx. 160 pounds, give or take). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help to think that, winter tires aside, this extra weight of the 335i vs 328i *might* actually be working to my advantage by providing slightly better driving on winter roads? Any thoughts on this?
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      01-03-2013, 06:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPACEMANRICK View Post
Was that the mother of all "snow storms" in Vancouver 2 weeks ago when we got about 2" of snow that was gone in 2 days. As I said before, winter tires are largely a waste in warm and wet Vancouver........ You complain about the "handling" of the xdrive and then throw 100 pounds of weight in your trunk when it snows and drive around for 4 months of the year with winter tires when the weather is raining and very rarely goes below freezing and is often above 10 degrees celsius
yeah snows seem pointless in that climate. ASRs maybe from nov to march...unless you're driving to whistler regularly.
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      01-03-2013, 06:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by CurlyFatAngry View Post
My first RWD after two xDrives and I'm pretty impressed so far with the all seasons and how balanced the car is. Got stuck only once but it was my fault driving into an unploughed parking lot with a foot and half of snow. Managed to wiggle myself out of it though.

BMW has come a long way on their DTC/DSC, my friends with E-Class are cursing theirs in the winter.
How's Toronto for getting the streets ploughed? Are you downtown?
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      01-03-2013, 06:21 PM   #29
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An H rated tire will not drive well in snow no matter what the ads say. Forget runflats, get a set of regular Blizzak WS70s and be happy.

(Real life experience: E36 328i on WS50 and WS60, now E82 135i on WS70. Ten Boston winters and counting.)
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      01-03-2013, 06:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JooFoo View Post
A thought just came to mind. I noticed the OP drives a 328i, whereas I drive a 335i which is the heavier car (by approx. 160 pounds, give or take). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help to think that, winter tires aside, this extra weight of the 335i vs 328i *might* actually be working to my advantage by providing slightly better driving on winter roads? Any thoughts on this?
Not really. All your extra weight is on the front. Rear axle load most likely is very similar.

This reminds me: http://lifehacker.com/5959545/use-2+...winter-driving
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      01-03-2013, 06:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by JooFoo View Post

A thought just came to mind. I noticed the OP drives a 328i, whereas I drive a 335i which is the heavier car (by approx. 160 pounds, give or take). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help to think that, winter tires aside, this extra weight of the 335i vs 328i *might* actually be working to my advantage by providing slightly better driving on winter roads? Any thoughts on this?
Your extra weight is in the front, so technically it would make it a little harder for you.
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      01-03-2013, 08:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Yobyot View Post
Do you have ZSL on you 328i? If so, you should be afraid -- VERY afraid -- of not just snow, but cold which makes the summer tires as hard as rocks.

Short story: My 335i with ZSL was in for service last Friday. A snow storm was arriving on Saturday. The dealer had given me an MY12 328i base car (no xDrive, but with all-season tires).

My plan was to get the car home on Friday and beat the storm. But the dealer decided to keep the car over the weekend.

I live at the end of a 400-ft cul-de-sac and then my driveway is another 100 feet off the cul-de-sac. Both have 6 or 7 degree climbs.

We got whacked with 10" of snow and by Monday, the temperatures had dropped to 12 degrees F. Obviously, we plowed our cul-de-sac and my driveway, but they remained snow-covered with an inch or so of snow. This snow cover got hard-packed by our cars and our neighbors' cars coming and going.

The loaner 328i had absolutely no problem with the hard-packed snow. It even scooted up my driveway backwards with no problem.

What about my car? When I got home from the dealer, I was able to get the car up the first part of the cul-de-sac. But there was no way it was going up the same driveway the 328i with all-seasons had had no problems with.

I spent New Year's Day trying to melt snow at the bottom of my driveway to get the 335i up it.

My learning from this? It's all about the tires. Sure, xDrive is great. But you really don't need it -- the two or three times you can really use it, you shouldn't be on the roads at all.

What you hear about summer tires getting as hard as rocks in the cold and having absolutely no -- and I mean ZERO -- traction on snow and ice are absolutely correct.


sorry but what does ZSL stand for?
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      01-03-2013, 08:58 PM   #33
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Im kinda of confused regarding DSC and DTC, what are the differences and how do i disable DTC. Is it the button on top of my Driving Experience Switch?

So i should disable DTC and drive on EcoPro mode?




I was going to buy the Blizzak WS70's but i saw these online for a good price so i bought these ones. Should have bought true winter tires, instead of performance winters. However, I bought these because these are recommended by BMW.

That was my first drive in a big snow storm, so maybe i wasn't used to it yet.



Thanks for the help everyone!
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      01-03-2013, 09:03 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JooFoo View Post
I haven't driven that often yet in the snow. But the times that I have driven over winter roads, my 335i has handled great. No complaints whatsoever.

This is the first time I'm driving a RWD car. Maybe it's still too early in the winter season for me, but so far I can't even tell that my car handles like a RWD over winter roads.

It should be noted that my car is equipped with brand new Blizzak LM-60 performance winter tires. I spent A LOT of time researching the best winter tires before going with these and I think I made the right choice. (I was also considering the Blizzak WS-70, Nokian Hakka R, Michelin Xi3, and the Dunlop Winter Sport 3D.)

One of the main reasons I opted for the LM-60's is because where I live the streets get cleaned fairly quickly, and these winter performance tires are designed to provide excellent traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads (including heavy slush). And I know from experience that on MOST days throughout the winter months here, the road conditions will either be dry (no snow - dry pavement), light snow-covered roads, or slushy roads. I just won't drive on the 5 to 10 days of winter where the roads are a complete mess or covered in ice. I'll let a taxi do the dirty work on such days.

A thought just came to mind. I noticed the OP drives a 328i, whereas I drive a 335i which is the heavier car (by approx. 160 pounds, give or take). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help to think that, winter tires aside, this extra weight of the 335i vs 328i *might* actually be working to my advantage by providing slightly better driving on winter roads? Any thoughts on this?


Your in montreal? LOL you guys get 3 X more snow than us here... I can't imagine how you guys drive in the winter
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      01-03-2013, 09:29 PM   #35
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sorry but what does ZSL stand for?
ZSL is the ordering code for Sport line.
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      01-03-2013, 09:37 PM   #36
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Last week a snow storm hit us here, and the roads were not salted or plowed at 5 am. I ended up getting stuck trying to make a right on a very small hill. I had no grip and was stuck there for 30 mins until i wiggled my way out.

I have practically new 18" Pirelli Sottozero non-runflats and I'm still having problems. I am missing my x-drive on my e90 now, or better yet, should have waited for x-drive for the f30 =(

Any suggestions on what i should be doing to increase traction/grip in the winter? Any RWD pointers in winter?

I have heard that if i load my trunk with over 100+ lbs of junk, it would increase traction.

Thnks!
get snow tires.
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      01-03-2013, 09:50 PM   #37
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I'm on some 18" Blizzak WS70s. On the flat in about that much snow below.... it was slow driving with traction control kicking in constantly ( but smoothly ). I use to own a e90 335xi, and made a conscious decision to get RWD this time even though one year in my e46 I got stuck going up Avenue just south of St. Claire. It was about 15cm of snow. When I had AWD, it never snowed much and now, murphy's law.... it does!

Anyway, it was said before, eco-pro helps and the extra weight helps and the right WS tires too. Hills with packed snow/ice as a base the are problems.

Now for everyone who doesn't know TO and believes it doesn't get much snow... you are right. Not much at all. The problem is that the city is too cheap to buy enough equipment and plays the waiting game with nature to see if it will all melt. That causes the hard packed stuff to form and then new fresh layers come down ontop of that if you aren't lucky. This is why I bought WS - for those occasional snowfalls and of course ski trips.

Get the equipment etc ( use eco pro, tires, weight ) and know your limits so you don't get stuck and know when to avoid which roads.

Actually this applies to AWD too - some people think its literally unstoppable, but soon find out its not.
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      01-03-2013, 09:56 PM   #38
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yeah snows seem pointless in that climate. ASRs maybe from nov to march...unless you're driving to whistler regularly.
You obviously haven't lived here to witness past Vancouver winters when snow remained on the ground for a month or more. It was only two winters ago that our provincial insurance company, ICBC, stated that they would deny insurance coverage for drivers found at fault in a MV collision if their car was NOT equipped with snow-rated tires.

All season tires are next to useless on ice or packed snow. ICBC recognizes this obvious fact to limit their damage claims.
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      01-04-2013, 12:40 AM   #39
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Your in montreal? LOL you guys get 3 X more snow than us here... I can't imagine how you guys drive in the winter
We're used to it...even though our winters here are not nearly as bad as they used to be. But I think they made me a pretty good driver. Not sure about the situation in Toronto, but we have pretty good snow removal here. That, along with having good winter tires, helps a lot.
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      01-04-2013, 01:05 AM   #40
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We're used to it...even though our winters here are not nearly as bad as they used to be. But I think they made me a pretty good driver. Not sure about the situation in Toronto, but we have pretty good snow removal here. That, along with having good winter tires, helps a lot.


oh you guys are known for how fast your snow removal system is in your province. Good job!!!
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      01-04-2013, 06:09 AM   #41
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RWD will never top xDrive in snow and slippery conditions, and the latest xDrive gives you virtually all of the RWD feel, so it's a winner all around.

Having said that, you may get stuck with RWD and snow tires since you're losing some odds so to speak that AWD provides, but if you drive safely you should be safe with them as we'll.
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      01-04-2013, 07:34 AM   #42
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To the original poster, I have the P7 set up and we had a decent storm hit last week. The car performed just fine where the roads had been somewhat treated with sand even though not fully plowed. However, I could tell and I was not surprised by the fact that it did not give me the confidence it would perform in deep snow.

While two 45 lb free wieght plates (availsble here in the states for instance at any large spporting goods store will help (old mustang drivers trick and you do not need to "load the trunk with junk", they will lie flat and you will only lose 2" of clearance), I think you need to rethink the all seasons and get dedicated snow tires. When things gt that bad, I have the option of using our X5. Without that, I would get snows too.
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      01-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by timberland1 View Post
Last week a snow storm hit us here, and the roads were not salted or plowed at 5 am. I ended up getting stuck trying to make a right on a very small hill. I had no grip and was stuck there for 30 mins until i wiggled my way out.

I have practically new 18" Pirelli Sottozero non-runflats and I'm still having problems. I am missing my x-drive on my e90 now, or better yet, should have waited for x-drive for the f30 =(

Any suggestions on what i should be doing to increase traction/grip in the winter? Any RWD pointers in winter?

I have heard that if i load my trunk with over 100+ lbs of junk, it would increase traction.

Thnks!
For what it's worth, everybody, the OP has Pirelli Sottozeros, which ARE winter/snow tires. They are not all-season or summer tires.
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      01-04-2013, 10:29 AM   #44
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RWD will never top xDrive in snow and slippery conditions, and the latest xDrive gives you virtually all of the RWD feel, so it's a winner all around.
Exactly. As long as you can ignore extra weight, weight distribution, fuel consumption, and higher purchase and maintenance costs.
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