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      01-08-2013, 05:25 PM   #89
SPACEMANRICK
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
LOL, thats a good one, you can say the same about every option on the F30, it increase BMW's profit margin. In fact, lets take it one step further, your BMW itself is a profit generator, you can buy a much cheaper car and it will still get you around, instead, you choose to pay extra for the roundel. I guess the BMW marketing department fool you too
I think he also forgets that BMW also charges extra for xenons on some vehicles and they used to charge extra for dynamic stability control. Foolish buyers eat up the marketing and pad BMW's profits with these frivilous and unnecessary safety features
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      01-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by rconti View Post
There's a lot more to go wrong on xDrive cars. For example, on the E46, the front control arms were notorious for wearing out far more quickly than on the RWD cars, and they cost much more to replace as well. You'll pay a performance and fuel economy penalty, of course, no matter what bench racers try to tell you.
Next time I buy a E46 for racing on the track, I will make sure its a RWD. Otherwise, for my daily driver, I prefer the added safety of an AWD
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      01-08-2013, 11:39 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by timberland1 View Post
Im kinda of confused regarding DSC and DTC, what are the differences and how do i disable DTC. Is it the button on top of my Driving Experience Switch?

So i should disable DTC and drive on EcoPro mode?




I was going to buy the Blizzak WS70's but i saw these online for a good price so i bought these ones. Should have bought true winter tires, instead of performance winters. However, I bought these because these are recommended by BMW.

That was my first drive in a big snow storm, so maybe i wasn't used to it yet.



Thanks for the help everyone!
If you need to get some tire spin to get moving in snow, or getting up a slippery hill where you need wheel spin, then push the "DTC/DSC" button just once, do NOT hold it in.
By pushing the button once it will activate DTC-dynamic traction control.
DTC allows the drive wheels to spin when needed to get the car moving and keep it moving.

DTC can also be activated by setting the driver mode to "sport+", which is basically 'sport' mode with DTC added/+.

If you want to use comfort or eco pro mode along with DTC, then simply set the driver mode to what you like, and then push the DTC/DSC button once and let go.
If you hold the DTC/DSC button for longer than 5 seconds, DTC and DSC will be deactivated.

In normal DSC mode, traction control is aggressive along with stability control.
DTC gives a more dynamic level of traction and more dynamic stability control.
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      01-08-2013, 11:44 PM   #92
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I bought a RWD. I know how to drive in snow, and I'd rather save the 3 grand and enjoy myself more the other 9 months of the year. Plus, if you know what you're doing, safety on the road is more dependant on other drivers.
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      01-13-2013, 02:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
You obviously haven't lived here to witness past Vancouver winters when snow remained on the ground for a month or more. It was only two winters ago that our provincial insurance company, ICBC, stated that they would deny insurance coverage for drivers found at fault in a MV collision if their car was NOT equipped with snow-rated tires.

All season tires are next to useless on ice or packed snow. ICBC recognizes this obvious fact to limit their damage claims.
Derek, I just wanted to give you a heads up if you wanted to stock up for the next "winter storm" at your mountainside Vancouver home. I am not sure if they have any snowblowers on sale for you

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/rcss-...by-bc-1287408/
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      01-22-2013, 03:35 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
If you need to get some tire spin to get moving in snow, or getting up a slippery hill where you need wheel spin, then push the "DTC/DSC" button just once, do NOT hold it in.
By pushing the button once it will activate DTC-dynamic traction control.
DTC allows the drive wheels to spin when needed to get the car moving and keep it moving.

DTC can also be activated by setting the driver mode to "sport+", which is basically 'sport' mode with DTC added/+.

If you want to use comfort or eco pro mode along with DTC, then simply set the driver mode to what you like, and then push the DTC/DSC button once and let go.
If you hold the DTC/DSC button for longer than 5 seconds, DTC and DSC will be deactivated.

In normal DSC mode, traction control is aggressive along with stability control.
DTC gives a more dynamic level of traction and more dynamic stability control.


Thank you so much for clarifying this with me... i will definitely try that next time.
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      01-22-2013, 04:04 AM   #95
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I have been driving a Crown Victoria squad car for 6 years. Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip snow tires are not the best tire by any means, but I've done some amazing things with that car. Keep in mind that this is a RWD vehicle with an open differential and very hard performance snow tires. If it gets dicey out, I throw a couple 75lb sand bags in the trunk and it does wonders. I've driven through 18" of standing snow, gone up and down iced over hills, and turned a car sideways on a downhill curve at 40mph and corrected it without going into a ditch.

Now compare that to my old E46 M3 with a limited-slip differential, better weight distribution and Dunlop Winter Sport tires, which are better than the Goodyears. That M3 NEVER got stuck. I had H&R springs on it and I still plowed through 12" of snow with it. It was a mountain goat.

If you went to a snow/ice tire like a Blizzak WS70 or Dunlop Graspic, you'd do even better.

Tires make a huge difference. I've driven Maseratis with Sottozeros, and they pretty much suck for anything other than highway use. As has been said, they are more like softer all-seasons than actual snow tires. The Pirelli WinterCarving tires are okay, but the Sottozero is a performance tire with limitations. Given a comparison to another performance snow tire like the Blizzak LM60, the Blizzak is far and away superior. Look at the TireRack.com surveys and see the massive difference.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...lar=Sport+Line



Michelin PA3 1 $199 100% 8.2 8.8 8.9 8.6 8.8 8.7 8.7 7.9 7.8 8.8 8.6 8.3
Sottozero S-II 5 $193 98% 8.1 8.7 8.9 8.3 8.5 8.5 8.5 7.6 7.8 8.9 8.3 8.3
Blizzak LM-60 8 $209 96% 8.8 8.4 8.4 7.6 8.0 7.7 9.3 8.8 8.3 8.2 7.6 8.0


The LM-60 is highly underrated in this survey, but notice that it has better snow and ice traction than even the #1 PA3. It blows the Sottozero out of the water in every WINTER category. Look at the major differences with light snow, deep snow and ice. It's a world of difference.
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      01-22-2013, 07:06 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I bought a RWD. I know how to drive in snow, and I'd rather save the 3 grand and enjoy myself more the other 9 months of the year. Plus, if you know what you're doing, safety on the road is more dependant on other drivers.
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      01-22-2013, 08:14 AM   #97
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I bought a RWD. I know how to drive in snow, and I'd rather save the 3 grand and enjoy myself more the other 9 months of the year. Plus, if you know what you're doing, safety on the road is more dependant on other drivers.
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      01-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I have been drivign FWD cars in snow all my life. Never had AWD except out IS250 which my wife drives. I am OK with all seasons and FWD, always have been, never bought snow tires before. But I hear RWD is another story, understandably...

Personally, I'd prefer to drive a RWD car because 9 months of the year there will be no snow and when tehre is, I know which routes to take and which to avoid...and we get ploughed pretty soon after snowfall around here.

If I was to buy a 335i x-drive I'd be looking at a $53,800 base price...by the time I add options, delivery and 13% tax, might as well get a base M3.
Its been proven over and over again...Winters vs a/s from 30 mph....a/s takes about 30 ft more to stop(think sliding through an intersection). Still want to stay on a/s? Most recent comparo iis in current European Car mag.
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      01-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by JohnVidale View Post
For the 2013 328i and 328ix, from the BMW official page, the xDrive is 0.2" higher - 0.4%, not much at all.

The xDrive is 235 lbs heavier - but a load of people in my family weighs a lot more that that, I would account for 75% of it. More relevant is that the xDrive is FASTER, not slower - 5.7s to 60, rather than 5.8s to 60. Maybe you have the power robbery backwards?

I'm just curious, my xDrive is not here yet, but it is difficult to get a clear story here.

Maybe BMW knows the most - "That means under normal conditions, drive forces are spread out with a rear-wheel bias. But the moment the system senses excessive wheel slip, it subtly shifts torque to meet the changing conditions, offering maximum available traction and superior handling on all surfaces."
Good post. You never know what to believe here. Everyone here can tell the difference between 48% of the weight on the front wheels vs 51%. That extra 180-220 lbs (about the weight of a friend) really messes with some guys here. I bet they FREAK out when driving with a full tank....about 120 lbs!
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      01-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #100
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After my E90 XDrive (running Blizzaks) I wanted and F30 xDrive as well. Unfortunately they don't offer it in North America with a manual transmission, so I was sort of forced to go with a F30 RWD...
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      01-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #101
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Not really. The reason FWD is 'better' in snow is because most FWD cars are as nose-heavy as a lawn dart. If you had terrible weight distribution in a RWD car (but over the rear), it'd do the same.
LOL, this is why a lot of older Porsche 911's in Europe are rusted to hell. People found out they were pretty good snow cars with the motor over the rear wheels and drove them all winter. Unfortunately, it being a no compromises sports car, they had very little in the way of corrosion proofing on the undercarriage.
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      01-25-2013, 03:16 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by domyalex View Post
After my E90 XDrive (running Blizzaks) I wanted and F30 xDrive as well. Unfortunately they don't offer it in North America with a manual transmission, so I was sort of forced to go with a F30 RWD...
Not offered at all?
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      01-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #103
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Slippery around town today. Most roads haven't been cleared. Floundered a bit in a side street, but when I switched to sport+ I powered through much better (eco/comfort wouldn't budge). This was the first time my RWD 335 had more than minor slippage with my all seasons. We had about 4 inches packed on untreated side streets.
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      01-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #104
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Slippery around town today. Most roads haven't been cleared. Floundered a bit in a side street, but when I switched to sport+ I powered through much better (eco/comfort wouldn't budge). This was the first time my RWD 335 had more than minor slippage with my all seasons. We had about 4 inches packed on untreated side streets.
That's odd...should be the opposite, since Eco Pro/Comfort would choose a high gear which would give more traction at lower rev's.
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      01-25-2013, 08:03 PM   #105
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That's odd...should be the opposite, since Eco Pro/Comfort would choose a high gear which would give more traction at lower rev's.
sport+ doesn't cut power when there's a loss of traction. it let's you catch periodically when otherwise slipping.
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      02-04-2013, 04:43 PM   #106
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Not offered at all?
Nup, not available in NA, period.

Kind of lame if you ask me; one more reason why I prefer my current E90 and will stick to it (I6 + AWD + 6sp is exactly what I want). Hopefully in 6 years the S4 will be more reliable =D (and still available with manual)
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      02-04-2013, 05:57 PM   #107
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Boy - did this tread go off the rails. The OP wants suggestions on how to hanlde his RWD in the winter/snow. An extra set of winter tires/wheels is a given. I just bought Michelin AP3s; we have had 3-6 inches over the last 24 hours in Chicago and I have had no problem. This includes driving through snow packed ally ways where there has been no plowing. Will it ever be as good as AWD with the same tires? Of course not. However, compared to the stock tires that come with the car, it is MUCH better. For added precaution, put some extra weight in the trunk.
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      02-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #108
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Nup, not available in NA, period.

Kind of lame if you ask me; one more reason why I prefer my current E90 and will stick to it (I6 + AWD + 6sp is exactly what I want). Hopefully in 6 years the S4 will be more reliable =D (and still available with manual)
328 may be more reliable than 335 (brutal) but not in the same performance league as S4 and probably no more reliable. I've had 5 Audis and everyone has been great. 335 was misery.
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      02-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by domyalex View Post
After my E90 XDrive (running Blizzaks) I wanted and F30 xDrive as well. Unfortunately they don't offer it in North America with a manual transmission, so I was sort of forced to go with a F30 RWD...
Are you talking about the 328? If so, please disregard the rest of this post.

I just went to the BMW USA web site and did a quick Build Your Own for a 335i xDrive and I was able to select a MT as a no cost option.

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      02-05-2013, 12:16 PM   #110
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The best recipe for snow IMHO:
A square setup Mastersteel winterplus 225 18 wintertyres plus a nice lsd and you're good to go.

Cheers
Robin
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