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      01-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #1
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Does anyone find that BMWs are getting less sturdy?

I've owned and driven all the german cars (MB, Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW) and this is my second BMW (first was a 2004 330ci) and I've noticed that the current F30 is less solid and study compared to my e46. In fact, I find that BMWs in general don't feel as solid as Porsche (IMO is probably the most solid build) and MB (my C63 doors closed like a bank vault).

Any thoughts or comments?
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      01-30-2013, 10:07 AM   #2
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*knock knock* Seems solid and "study" to me!
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      01-30-2013, 10:16 AM   #3
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I think my f30 is as sturdy as my e46 was. I would expect a Porsche to be petty well built. Isn't each Porsche hand built?
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      01-30-2013, 10:16 AM   #4
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i would have to agree here. My E46 was rock solid even riding on very firm H&R coilovers. Doors all close with a solid thump and didn't have a rattle for the whole 5 years that i had it. My previous E90 on the other hand did not feel as solid for sure.

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      01-30-2013, 10:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesems
I think my f30 is as sturdy as my e46 was. I would expect a Porsche to be petty well built. Isn't each Porsche hand built?
No they are not hand built. Also considering the price difference between a Porsche and a BMW there should be some slightly noticeable difference in rigidity between the 2.
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      01-30-2013, 11:46 PM   #6
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Ummm...they had to put the F30 doors on a diet to meet mpg goals.

That C63 doesn't get 30mpg!

It's 30% more rigid than the last gen, so largely perceptual...I agree though, when I shut the door the whole damn thing vibrates!
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      01-31-2013, 01:36 AM   #7
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F30 body shell

Your observation may be a case of perception trumping reality. The F30 body is way stronger and stiffer than either the E90 or E46. It has to be in order to meet the far more stringent crash/safety standards for Europe and North America.

As for closing a door on my F30-335i, it shuts with a very solid sounding clunk, no vibrations. It gives a more reassuring sound than any previous E90 that I owned.
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      01-31-2013, 01:42 AM   #8
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You think the C63 doors close like a vault. Try a Volvo!
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      01-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #9
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F30 chassis is 30% stiffer than its predessor
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      01-31-2013, 09:22 AM   #10
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Yea I think the weight reduction causes a perceptual change. It feels lighter and less sturdy, but it's actually more rigid. It reminds me of the iphone. The iphone 5 feels a little cheaper because it's not as weighty as my 4
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      01-31-2013, 09:38 AM   #11
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My doors are pretty solid. I have to slam the living hell out of it every time i try to close it.
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      01-31-2013, 01:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCBimmerKid View Post
Yea I think the weight reduction causes a perceptual change. It feels lighter and less sturdy, but it's actually more rigid. It reminds me of the iphone. The iphone 5 feels a little cheaper because it's not as weighty as my 4
Agree.
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      01-31-2013, 04:04 PM   #13
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I know exactly what OP is saying. My sisters 2009 C class was a tank. The doors felt like bank vault doors and just the overall feel of the car was very solid. Also little wind noise. So getting into and driving that car, the average person will instantly realize "ah, this is why a german built luxury sedan is so expensive"

Now my F30 doors are light as hell, like a honda civics doors, and the car doesnt have the bank vault feeling you'd expect from a $65,000 german built luxury sedan. Actually the very first comment i got is "why are the doors so light?" lol definitely doesnt give that expensive feel...as much as a c class does at least or even the previous gen 3

the wind noise really bothers me, its so f***ing loud. My friends Chrysler 300 M was 10X quieter in terms of wind noise.
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      01-31-2013, 06:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosz View Post
I know exactly what OP is saying. My sisters 2009 C class was a tank. The doors felt like bank vault doors and just the overall feel of the car was very solid. Also little wind noise. So getting into and driving that car, the average person will instantly realize "ah, this is why a german built luxury sedan is so expensive"

Now my F30 doors are light as hell, like a honda civics doors, and the car doesnt have the bank vault feeling you'd expect from a $65,000 german built luxury sedan. Actually the very first comment i got is "why are the doors so light?" lol definitely doesnt give that expensive feel...as much as a c class does at least or even the previous gen 3

the wind noise really bothers me, its so f***ing loud. My friends Chrysler 300 M was 10X quieter in terms of wind noise.
Close the windows and the roof. That helps I have heard. All joking aside.......it isn't loud.
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      01-31-2013, 07:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosz View Post
I know exactly what OP is saying. My sisters 2009 C class was a tank. The doors felt like bank vault doors and just the overall feel of the car was very solid. Also little wind noise. So getting into and driving that car, the average person will instantly realize "ah, this is why a german built luxury sedan is so expensive"

Now my F30 doors are light as hell, like a honda civics doors, and the car doesnt have the bank vault feeling you'd expect from a $65,000 german built luxury sedan. Actually the very first comment i got is "why are the doors so light?" lol definitely doesnt give that expensive feel...as much as a c class does at least or even the previous gen 3

the wind noise really bothers me, its so f***ing loud. My friends Chrysler 300 M was 10X quieter in terms of wind noise.

Let's see your sister's 09 C or your friends Chrysler 300 perform like the F30.

People who equate how "heavy and bank vault feeling" doors are to quality/German should be looking at a 5 or 7 series, or E class.

BMW 3 series is famous and celebrated for its performance and driving, that's why it's the ultimate DRIVING machine, not "the ultimate zen meditation room".

Hell, car makers like Porsche and Aston charge MORE for cars with more stripped out parts (lets trash the carpet, AC, glass windows, radio, and everything but the steering wheel and charge $100k more for it).
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      02-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Let's see your sister's 09 C or your friends Chrysler 300 perform like the F30.

People who equate how "heavy and bank vault feeling" doors are to quality/German should be looking at a 5 or 7 series, or E class.

BMW 3 series is famous and celebrated for its performance and driving, that's why it's the ultimate DRIVING machine, not "the ultimate zen meditation room".

Hell, car makers like Porsche and Aston charge MORE for cars with more stripped out parts (lets trash the carpet, AC, glass windows, radio, and everything but the steering wheel and charge $100k more for it).
c class is equivalent to 3 series and same pricing. Its built much better and feels more expensive than the f30 and has much less wind noise, like much much less, which IMHO is a major pillar of an expensive car. Unfortuneatly the F30 HUGELY lacks a cabin free from loud wind noise and we all know that, just search the forum and youll find a ton of long threads about it.

Ofcourse the F30 performs better and has the better iDrive vs benz's shitty command system.

Even though I love BMW and hate Merc, my opins aint biased like some ppl on this forum. It is what it is.
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      02-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #17
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My point is, each car has its ups and downs. Go on the MB forums (I have), there's plenty of complaints about things that go wrong with the C class.

Yes, MBs and Lexus and such are quieter inside, and give that "traditional luxury" feel of smoothness etc, but lack the sporty handling and "passion".

Yes, BMWs are great driving machines, but compared to a lot of other companies have really dated/basic interiors.

Ultimately it's a choice of what's important to you for the same price range. It bugs me when people decide to nitpick every little detail and compare it to other cars "of the same range that can do this or has that". If those cars are so much better, go get one of those. If you still ultimately prefer the F30, then enjoy the car and stop finding reasons to not like it.
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      02-05-2013, 08:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
My point is, each car has its ups and downs. Go on the MB forums (I have), there's plenty of complaints about things that go wrong with the C class.

Yes, MBs and Lexus and such are quieter inside, and give that "traditional luxury" feel of smoothness etc, but lack the sporty handling and "passion".

Yes, BMWs are great driving machines, but compared to a lot of other companies have really dated/basic interiors.

Ultimately it's a choice of what's important to you for the same price range. It bugs me when people decide to nitpick every little detail and compare it to other cars "of the same range that can do this or has that". If those cars are so much better, go get one of those. If you still ultimately prefer the F30, then enjoy the car and stop finding reasons to not like it.
Yeah, lets have a circle jerk of how much we love F30. That would be a great forum to read. Why you get so upset when people compare BMWs to other cars. I think it makes an interesting discussion and provides a chance to learn a thing or two.
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      02-05-2013, 08:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Yes, MBs and Lexus and such are quieter inside, and give that "traditional luxury" feel of smoothness etc, but lack the sporty handling and "passion".
i read a number of reviews insisting that the new GS outhandles the F10. I would not be shocked if new IS outhandles F30
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      02-05-2013, 09:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosz View Post
c class is equivalent to 3 series and same pricing. Its built much better and feels more expensive than the f30 and has much less wind noise, like much much less, which IMHO is a major pillar of an expensive car. Unfortuneatly the F30 HUGELY lacks a cabin free from loud wind noise and we all know that, just search the forum and youll find a ton of long threads about it.

Ofcourse the F30 performs better and has the better iDrive vs benz's shitty command system.

Even though I love BMW and hate Merc, my opins aint biased like some ppl on this forum. It is what it is.
Just an FYI, I thought it was a placebo affect that I thought the '13's were quieter inside than the '12s. But I have now read others that had the same experience.

Now, cars and almost any manufactured good should benefit from continued improvement. Now it might not make the news or even get a new part number, but the way the car is assembled or improved parts with the same part number can be used.

So the C is an old platform which benefits from being at the end of the cycle which means years of small production improvements. Just like I would expect from a '11-13 E90-E93. You have a '12 or first year F30, let's see what happens over the next 5-shall we?
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      02-06-2013, 12:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosz View Post
the wind noise really bothers me, its so f***ing loud.
Why not take your into your dealer and complain about the wind noise. There are 3 known potential sources: trim on the driver's mirror, the misalignment of the windshield (1mm off will create substantial noise) or the B pillar trim.

My car (mid-October build) is very quiet at speeds up to 140 km/h; I haven't had an opportunity to go faster, but soon !
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      02-06-2013, 04:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Just an FYI, I thought it was a placebo affect that I thought the '13's were quieter inside than the '12s. But I have now read others that had the same experience.

Now, cars and almost any manufactured good should benefit from continued improvement. Now it might not make the news or even get a new part number, but the way the car is assembled or improved parts with the same part number can be used.

So the C is an old platform which benefits from being at the end of the cycle which means years of small production improvements. Just like I would expect from a '11-13 E90-E93. You have a '12 or first year F30, let's see what happens over the next 5-shall we?
yup fair enough, i didnt think of it that way..because my 2010 e90 was as quiet as the 2009 C class.

I just like heavy doors thats all
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