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      02-02-2013, 04:24 AM   #45
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      02-02-2013, 05:03 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
M officials may want a Black series competitor, but the BMW Board has final decision, right? And they've overruled M Division's wishes before, right? There has to be a business case...
I'm really sick of this business case thing. BMW sold 9300 Z4 M's in 2006-2008. Mercedes sold 9500 SLK55's in 2005-2010. Now i can't understand how MB can find a business case in producing a new SLK55 but BMW can't find that in producing a new Z4 M. To make things more worse, for the new SLK55 AMG developed a new motor but BMW already has the right motor (S65B44) to put in the Z4 M.

They canceled the M6 CSL project because it didn't make sense from a business stand point, The M8 supercar is a no go, No Z4 M... But in the meantime BMW expands the GT family even though the 5GT only sold 2800 units in 2010. To me it seems that in BMW marketing team someone isn't doing his job right. Shame.
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      02-02-2013, 05:12 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
They did with the E36 M3 Lightweight. It was a massive failure from what I have read. But that was years ago. And I don't think BMW knew exactly how to market them. BMW's problem is that they think these types of cars, but they don't.
The E36 LTW was a limited edition.
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      02-02-2013, 06:39 AM   #48
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If Audi released the R8 GT, would be nice to see (at least a limited edition) of a more track oriented M4..
Also BMW has to offer it for a resonable price too
Would also be nice to see an M2 CSL, as a Cayman R rival
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      02-02-2013, 08:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
M officials may want a Black series competitor, but the BMW Board has final decision, right? And they've overruled M Division's wishes before, right? There has to be a business case...
I'm really sick of this business case thing. BMW sold 9300 Z4 M's in 2006-2008. Mercedes sold 9500 SLK55's in 2005-2010. Now i can't understand how MB can find a business case in producing a new SLK55 but BMW can't find that in producing a new Z4 M. To make things more worse, for the new SLK55 AMG developed a new motor but BMW already has the right motor (S65B44) to put in the Z4 M.

They canceled the M6 CSL project because it didn't make sense from a business stand point, The M8 supercar is a no go, No Z4 M... But in the meantime BMW expands the GT family even though the 5GT only sold 2800 units in 2010. To me it seems that in BMW marketing team someone isn't doing his job right. Shame.
You are right. Remember the leaked photos of the new 3'er GT? What a barf-mobile, then the next day, the 4'er was announced.

Real performance cars won't sell but ugly GT hatchback cars will?!
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      02-02-2013, 09:16 AM   #50
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Via autoblog:

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...the M division would like to offer hardware like the M3 CSL, GTS or CRT to buyers here in the States...
Guys\Gals...

They would like to bring cars like the CSL here... but they can't\wont.

How much time is even left to order an e92 M? Last year, I placed my order on June 26th, 2012. Vehicle was finished on August 17th (a little over 6 weeks). The 2 door M3 is slated for 2014 right (2015 for the M4)? The time frame doesn't leave much time before production of the new 2014, 2 door M3 at the Regensburg plant. 8 months or so from now, peeps will be putting down cash for the new M3. Some are already getting on the waiting lists... and yet there are going to be more special edition e92's?

Seems to me if these (even if they were the same rehash BMW marketing different paint USA special eds), they would have needed to be announced at Detroit.
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      02-02-2013, 10:08 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b33g33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpipta View Post
There so different cars. Black series cars are crazy powerful and torquey, but lack the finesse of an M car. If you want to do crazy burnouts, go get any AMG or Black series MB. If you want a car with surgical precision to race, you buy an M car.

Frankly, I hope BMW stays away from that market space.

Cheers,
Tony
If you want a car with surgical precision to race, you buy a GT3 RS 4.0

I think the M's fit somewhere in between the loud and gnarly AMGs and the scalpel precise P-cars.
You are right, surgical precision for M cars? That's a load. I think someone is living in the past. M division is dead, Hopefully that will turn around with the f80/f82 not being a total whale.

Also someone said it earlier, next gen. c63 will likely kill it anyway.
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      02-02-2013, 10:12 AM   #52
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Have any of you driven a c63 black series? I own and love my 2011 e90 m3, but the black series c63 is more a surgical machine than my e90. BMW doesn't have a car in production that comes close to competing with it. It is truly a drivers car. I can't say that for any other AMG car in the Benz line up. The c63 black is special car that AMG got right and if BMW was targeting that car, we will all be lining up to buy it. the 1m and the e9x were great cars, but at the price point for the black series, BMW doesn't have a competitor. It is the only performance Benz I would ever buy vs my m3. And I am saying that as a true m3 fanatic.

I know BMW won't make a competitor, but is nice to dream...
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      02-02-2013, 10:57 AM   #53
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If BMW comes out with a hardcore e92 M3 closer to the GTS without the price tag, I'd sell mine and get it right away.

Lighter, better adjustable suspension, and a decent braking system. I don't feel like there's a need for more power if the car is lighter.
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      02-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #54
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The c63 BS is one of the only cars in the world where the options cost more than the car itself. Do we really want BMW to adopt that business model? 65k m3 with a 67k option package?
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      02-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #55
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If BMW comes out with a hardcore e92 M3 closer to the GTS without the price tag, I'd sell mine and get it right away.
Agreed!

If the engine was stroked, car was lighter, luxury somewhat maintained like the BS. Don't do Recaro seats, make BMW M Performance ones. Came in 6MT, like the GT3RS. Better suspension, maybe even lighter wheels, The majority of the car must be bespoke to this new car. Make a few of the new items available to buy for current model M3's. So people who can't afford the new model can get some of the new M performance items. Also make a few bespoke cosmetic body changes like the BS, then it is even better and more unique. The GTS was such a disappointment. The whole point in creating a car like this should be to make a drivers wet dream, meaning very unique and very fun.

So if most of the above is done with this new M3 "black series" I would get one.

Also, maybe more than one color too
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      02-02-2013, 02:32 PM   #56
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      02-02-2013, 04:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeliverator View Post
Guys\Gals...

They would like to bring cars like the CSL here... but they can't\wont.

How much time is even left to order an e92 M? Last year, I placed my order on June 26th, 2012. Vehicle was finished on August 17th (a little over 6 weeks). The 2 door M3 is slated for 2014 right (2015 for the M4)? The time frame doesn't leave much time before production of the new 2014, 2 door M3 at the Regensburg plant. 8 months or so from now, peeps will be putting down cash for the new M3. Some are already getting on the waiting lists... and yet there are going to be more special edition e92's?

Seems to me if these (even if they were the same rehash BMW marketing different paint USA special eds), they would have needed to be announced at Detroit.
...we're talking about an F80 M3 CSL, not another E90 variant.
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      02-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #58
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I think it is not that impossible. I believe with BMW working on their own development of CF for cars. They can make more comprehensive CF parts for M3's, M5's or M6's like hoods, trunks, and bumpers front and back. This would drop the weight for more hardcore track purposes.

In addition to that they can add more powerfull track ready big brake packages as well as more aggressive tune for the DCT tranny and slightly higher boost levels for turbos and larger more efficient oil coolers. Besides that slap on the M performance exhaust and whola you have M3 GTS, M5 GTS or M6 GTS or M6 grancoupe GTS.

The ability to bump power is not gonna be super hard with turbo engines ability to tune up. It would basiclly come down to how far is BMW in the process of making its own in house Carbon fiber.
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      02-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #59
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...we're talking about an F80 M3 CSL, not another E90 variant.
Ohhhh.... damn.

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      02-02-2013, 05:23 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TheDeliverator View Post
Ohhhh.... damn.

haha, actually the tweets that set off this discussion said to expect 1-2 models this year, if I remember right, so maybe something surprising is on the way.
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      02-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #61
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And now MB have done this.


C63 Edition 507
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      02-02-2013, 08:15 PM   #62
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haha, actually the tweets that set off this discussion said to expect 1-2 models this year, if I remember right, so maybe something surprising is on the way.
I'd actually think about purchasing one if BMW M ticked all the right boxes.
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      02-03-2013, 04:34 AM   #63
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And now MB have done this.


C63 Edition 507
BMW is combating the 507 at best would be my guess. Fighting the amg bs in the states will most likely not happen
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      02-03-2013, 05:34 AM   #64
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It would be great if BMW extended the power/dynamics of what is already a fantastic car. The only thing that would have me replace my E92 is an E92 with a little more power and something special!

MB 507 is a great car/engine... but I think it's power to handling doesn't match the E92's capability.
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      02-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
They did with the E36 M3 Lightweight. It was a massive failure from what I have read. But that was years ago. And I don't think BMW knew exactly how to market them. BMW's problem is that they think these types of cars, but they don't.

Correct. namely, by putting the correct MOTOR in it. Same as they did with the 318ti. No 325ti... no M3ti.. They were too afraid of " cannibalizing sales of the M3.

then with the E46 they didnt bring over a 4 door because they were afraid that it would take away M5 sales... somehow not realizing that a person looking at a $45,000 car and a $70,000 car really arent the same buyer.
Wait there was an e46 m3 sedan in the eu?
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      02-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #66
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IMHP, if you wish to spend the extra difference between a stock M3 and a SPecial Edition M3, by the normal one and do the upgrades yourself if its about speed. An Akropovic Exhaust and an Activ SC will do you a lot of good. And if you want exclusivity, who else can have a car like one that you've pieced together. That's just my opinion.
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