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      02-04-2013, 10:55 AM   #67
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It's fact that dedicated winters are the best in winter. What is debatable is whether everyone should use them at all. If the provinces in Canada don't even agree on whether to mandate that shows how far apart people are in terms of using them.
Don't confuse the fact that everyone should have them with Provinces mandating them... Politics and reality are usually two different things
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      02-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #68
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It seems people who consistently have never been to our neck of the country continue to want to bash and troll and name-call without having done THEIR research. In NYC/NJ, a) it pretty much never slows. B) Any snow that does fall doesn't stick for more than 10 seconds, since our infrastructure maintains all roadways with plows and salt.

So lemme make this simpler for those of you who are just willfully ignorant:

"Hey, me and 300 drove on some wet roads with some salt in our summers and had no issues. Cool, nah? But if it ever does really snow (like that crazy 2 foot storm a few years back), hey we'll swap to another car with all seaons or w/e."

Christ.
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      02-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #69
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Exactly....

I love how people talk about the fact they could make it up the hill with summers or all seasons, so "who needs winters?"...

Now... try going down that hill in traffic where you have to stop.... Good luck..
I promise you, I rarely come across hills in my daily commute. This is again one of those situations where you are applying your case to everyone else.

Guys, this forum is multinational, I actually try to stop myself when I refer to Canada, the guys in Europe must think my Geography is limited because they get quite a bit of snow too. LOL
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      02-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #70
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Don't confuse the fact that everyone should have them with Provinces mandating them... Politics and reality are usually two different things
Agreed, I was only trying to show that people are different, provinces are different, etc. But Politics sucks
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      02-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
It seems people who consistently have never been to our neck of the country continue to want to bash and troll and name-call without having done THEIR research. In NYC/NJ, a) it pretty much never slows. B) Any snow that does fall doesn't stick for more than 10 seconds, since our infrastructure maintains all roadways with plows and salt.

So lemme make this simpler for those of you who are just willfully ignorant:

"Hey, me and 300 drove on some wet roads with some salt in our summers and had no issues. Cool, nah? But if it ever does really snow (like that crazy 2 foot storm a few years back), hey we'll swap to another car with all seaons or w/e."

Christ.
Question: Does the temperature go below 7 deg celcius (44 Fahrenheit) where you are? not trolling, just curious.

The reason is, regardless of the amount of snow, I'm sure you know summer tires harden faster than a Bimmerpost member seeing an M6. We haven't gotten a massive amount of snow here either, but I definitely notice way better grip and stopping distance on the cold roads.
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      02-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
It seems people who consistently have never been to our neck of the country continue to want to bash and troll and name-call without having done THEIR research. In NYC/NJ, a) it pretty much never slows. B) Any snow that does fall doesn't stick for more than 10 seconds, since our infrastructure maintains all roadways with plows and salt.

So lemme make this simpler for those of you who are just willfully ignorant:

"Hey, me and 300 drove on some wet roads with some salt in our summers and had no issues. Cool, nah? But if it ever does really snow (like that crazy 2 foot storm a few years back), hey we'll swap to another car with all seaons or w/e."

Christ.
Is your name really Christ? :P
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      02-04-2013, 11:06 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
It seems people who consistently have never been to our neck of the country continue to want to bash and troll and name-call without having done THEIR research. In NYC/NJ, a) it pretty much never slows. B) Any snow that does fall doesn't stick for more than 10 seconds, since our infrastructure maintains all roadways with plows and salt.

So lemme make this simpler for those of you who are just willfully ignorant:

"Hey, me and 300 drove on some wet roads with some salt in our summers and had no issues. Cool, nah? But if it ever does really snow (like that crazy 2 foot storm a few years back), hey we'll swap to another car with all seaons or w/e."

Christ.
Thanks

I dont understand why one does not create a thread about winter tires and how one goes through 2 sets of tires.

The Europeans must be laughing at this, LOL
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      02-04-2013, 11:07 AM   #74
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Stay away from Chicago.
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      02-04-2013, 11:11 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananachipz View Post
Question: Does the temperature go below 7 deg celcius (44 Fahrenheit) where you are? not trolling, just curious.

The reason is, regardless of the amount of snow, I'm sure you know summer tires harden faster than a Bimmerpost member seeing an M6. We haven't gotten a massive amount of snow here either, but I definitely notice way better grip and stopping distance on the cold roads.
It's a pretty chilly 24F here right now. But my 18'' ContiSportContact SSRs don't seem to have hardened all that much. Yes, they'll perform better in the summer. But to say that just because it's under 44F these tires lose so much grip that the car becomes a hazard (as some here claim) is just nonsense.
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      02-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #76
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No Tsuyoi. the claim is "YOU WILL MURDER PEOPLE", or "YOU WILL DIE", or "YOU ARE AN IDIOT"

Vector Pilot has a point, with our set up we have to stay away from Chicago
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      02-04-2013, 11:16 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananachipz View Post
Question: Does the temperature go below 7 deg celcius (44 Fahrenheit) where you are? not trolling, just curious.

The reason is, regardless of the amount of snow, I'm sure you know summer tires harden faster than a Bimmerpost member seeing an M6. We haven't gotten a massive amount of snow here either, but I definitely notice way better grip and stopping distance on the cold roads.
Only last week was the temp below 7 degrees like over a few days. I will take your advice though because like I said earlier, you guys know a bit more about the white staff than I do.
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      02-04-2013, 11:16 AM   #78
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My normal commutes take me within NYC, over to Jersey once in a while, and on the rare occasion over to PA for some rafting in the summer.

Any further destinations like Chicago or wherever and I'm flying over then hopping in a rental anyway.
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      02-04-2013, 11:21 AM   #79
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It's a pretty chilly 24F here right now. But my 18'' ContiSportContact SSRs don't seem to have hardened all that much. Yes, they'll perform better in the summer. But to say that just because it's under 44F these tires lose so much grip that the car becomes a hazard (as some here claim) is just nonsense.
Actually, it's science, not nonsense....

People love to polarize the issues... it's not black or white. It's not "they grip or they don't"... It's percentages...

The fact is that in an emergency stop in cold temps, the winter tires will stop at a shorter distance. There's no disputing that, as many independent third-parties have tested and verified that.

Now... If you keep your distance in winter, don't emergency stop, and drive more carefully, will you be ok on Summers? Sure.. why not... the problem is that you don't have control of all the variables, and there may be one time you need to emergency stop. The extra couple feet of stopping distance can mean the difference between a crash or not. The extra bit of grip can mean the difference between DSC being effective and saving you or not.

For me? that extra bit of insurance is worth the small cost of Winter tires. Especially because my son travels with me in the car. Is it fool proof? No, but it gives you that extra margin of safety. Kinda like wearing a seatbelt.
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      02-04-2013, 11:22 AM   #80
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Wow, the demand that everyone buy snow tires show some have a complete lack of perspective.

If lack of snow tires make one drive the other car occasionally, or go slower, the actuarial risk is far down the list that we face every day - keeping one's weight down, getting enough sleep, going to the doctor regularly, obeying the speed limit, not tailgating or passing except in unusually safe situations, using turn signals - it is not a cause for MUST DO IT statements. It is probably more dangerous to get irate over petty issues on a forum than to be surrounded by a fleet of cars in summer tires in a light dusting of snow. Certainly speeding 100+, even on a track, is far worse.

Fun to watch the fireworks, however.
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      02-04-2013, 11:24 AM   #81
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Only last week was the temp below 7 degrees like over a few days. I will take your advice though because like I said earlier, you guys know a bit more about the white staff than I do.
Even up here people are hilarious. You'll see the Soccer Mom in an Escalade flying down the road with all the grip in the world on her all seasons, then slide that 6,000lb beast right through an intersection because she can't stop.

Stupidity has no borders
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      02-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #82
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Stupidity has no borders
Thats true, but thats why I like this place as its multinational and you get some perspective into how other societies operate.
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      02-04-2013, 11:41 AM   #83
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It really is fairly simple. You have been lucky so far. Driving slow will not eliminate the need to stop in a short distance should a dangerous situation arise. In a snow, such occurance is more likely than in dry weather. When you need to stop fast, and you can't, that is when you will learn the lesson. Unfortunately, in addition to smacking up your bimmer, you will most likely cause damage and a headache to another driver(s) as well. BTW, i commute from brooklyn to NYC every day. 20 years, no accidents. I don't use winter tires, but i make sure my all-seasons are in good shape.
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      02-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by bananachipz View Post
Actually, it's science, not nonsense....

People love to polarize the issues... it's not black or white. It's not "they grip or they don't"... It's percentages...

The fact is that in an emergency stop in cold temps, the winter tires will stop at a shorter distance. There's no disputing that, as many independent third-parties have tested and verified that.

Now... If you keep your distance in winter, don't emergency stop, and drive more carefully, will you be ok on Summers? Sure.. why not... the problem is that you don't have control of all the variables, and there may be one time you need to emergency stop. The extra couple feet of stopping distance can mean the difference between a crash or not. The extra bit of grip can mean the difference between DSC being effective and saving you or not.

For me? that extra bit of insurance is worth the small cost of Winter tires. Especially because my son travels with me in the car. Is it fool proof? No, but it gives you that extra margin of safety. Kinda like wearing a seatbelt.
For me, living in the city, having two sets of tires would actually be quite an inconvenience. It's all apartments here (unless you can fork over 40 mil for a house by Central Park), and as such no place to store a second set of tires, and no place to change them out. Dealerships here don't offer any "tire storage options", and getting them changed is $75/hr.

Yes, compared to dedicated winter tires, my current summer ones probably have a longer stopping distance. But compared to your average car on your road, and hell, compared to my last car, I'm pretty sure my current setup has a much shorter stopping distance.

I mean, we'd all be perfectly safe if everyone drove at 10mph all the time, no one ever changed lanes, and no one was allowed to drive in snow/rain/fog or at night. Ultimately, it comes out to a balance of safety vs practicality and convenience, and it just isn't practical or convenient for me to have a second set of tires just for the 3 times it barely snows down here.
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      02-04-2013, 11:57 AM   #85
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I can't resist another comment.

It's comical when, on a forum of car enthusiasts, who work to overcome an electronic limit of 210 km/km, tune their engines well in excess of the preference of BMW's engineers, often darken their windows almost to opaque, run on giant fragile wheels, and eschew runflat tires, some don't trust posters to occasionally drive in snow without snow tires.

But keep it up.
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      02-04-2013, 12:00 PM   #86
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I can't resist another comment.

It's comical when, on a forum of car enthusiasts, who work to overcome an electronic limit of 210 km/km, tune their engines well in excess of the preference of BMW's engineers, often darken their windows almost to opaque, run on giant fragile wheels, and eschew runflat tires, some don't trust posters to occasionally drive in snow without snow tires.

But keep it up.
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      02-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #87
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I can't resist another comment.

It's comical when, on a forum of car enthusiasts, who work to overcome an electronic limit of 210 km/km, tune their engines well in excess of the preference of BMW's engineers, often darken their windows almost to opaque, run on giant fragile wheels, and eschew runflat tires, some don't trust posters to occasionally drive in snow without snow tires.

But keep it up.
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      02-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #88
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It seems people who consistently have never been to our neck of the country continue to want to bash and troll and name-call without having done THEIR research. In NYC/NJ, a) it pretty much never slows. B) Any snow that does fall doesn't stick for more than 10 seconds, since our infrastructure maintains all roadways with plows and salt.

So lemme make this simpler for those of you who are just willfully ignorant:

"Hey, me and 300 drove on some wet roads with some salt in our summers and had no issues. Cool, nah? But if it ever does really snow (like that crazy 2 foot storm a few years back), hey we'll swap to another car with all seaons or w/e."

Christ.
Hey Christ, you and 300 didnt mention that you had other vehicles to drive in your earlier posts. Whats yours?
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