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      02-06-2013, 04:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
Well... You want to save money and you end up negating the difference or most of it, by installing an aftermarket exhaust. You could have ended up with a 6 banger, a nice sound and great performance for just a little more if you had realized your mistake in the first place.

Only thing I can think of outside of the money factor for getting a 328 over a 335:

- Better fuel economy (get a Prius if you're green or a Kia if you're broke)I
- Better weight distribution (very slim difference noticeable in racing only)
OMG, is that for real or you joking?
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      02-06-2013, 04:47 PM   #24
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      02-06-2013, 05:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
Well... You want to save money and you end up negating the difference or most of it, by installing an aftermarket exhaust. You could have ended up with a 6 banger, a nice sound and great performance for just a little more if you had realized your mistake in the first place.

Only thing I can think of outside of the money factor for getting a 328 over a 335:

- Better fuel economy (get a Prius if you're green or a Kia if you're broke)
- Better weight distribution (very slim difference noticeable in racing only)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Difference down there is about $6000 so I agree, I'd go 335 ALL DAY. Its about $10,000 difference up here. Not a fan of 4 cyl sound....cant hear it at idle either. I hate that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
Understood, $10k difference is considerable.

Here in the US it's not even $5k... Which incidentally is the price of a high-end exhaust system inc. install. And it's not like that's going to fix the noise under the hood, just behind the car (artificially).
Actually, my 335i Msport has a clickety clack kind of idle as well. I had to take a second listen to make sure I wasn't hearing anything odd. It's not as bad as the 4 cylinder clickety clack but more than what I was expecting. Brings me back to the days of tracking my E36M3 and having oil starvation and an oil pump not strong enough to keep the lifters from clacking.

As for the off topic subject, I thought the pricing difference of the 328 to 335 was around $3k for a similarly optioned 328 car. There are a couple of things that aren't available on the 328 like the brakes. I don't know if there are any other things.

Interesting enough, the EPA numbers for the 328 and 335 are the same. Based on the new 320 that just got released, it may not be as desireable to get the 328. There was talk that previous 328's were lower compression, low boost with more aftermarket potential. When the 320 came out, the 328 got higher compression high boost which limits the overhead capacity of the 328 engine vs the low boosted 320.

That said, the 328 is wonderfully balanced. It's amazing what taking 160lbs off the front end does. The car transitions so much quicker. It was a hard decision for me as well. Eventually the seductive power of the 335 got me. And now with the high boosted 328's, the decision to go with the 335 is more advantageous.
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      02-06-2013, 06:01 PM   #26
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If it really bothers you, you can get the M-sport exhaust system. It makes a pretty big difference.
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      02-06-2013, 06:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stom_m3 View Post
Actually, my 335i Msport has a clickety clack kind of idle as well. I had to take a second listen to make sure I wasn't hearing anything odd. It's not as bad as the 4 cylinder clickety clack but more than what I was expecting. Brings me back to the days of tracking my E36M3 and having oil starvation and an oil pump not strong enough to keep the lifters from clacking.

As for the off topic subject, I thought the pricing difference of the 328 to 335 was around $3k for a similarly optioned 328 car. There are a couple of things that aren't available on the 328 like the brakes. I don't know if there are any other things.

Interesting enough, the EPA numbers for the 328 and 335 are the same. Based on the new 320 that just got released, it may not be as desireable to get the 328. There was talk that previous 328's were lower compression, low boost with more aftermarket potential. When the 320 came out, the 328 got higher compression high boost which limits the overhead capacity of the 328 engine vs the low boosted 320.

That said, the 328 is wonderfully balanced. It's amazing what taking 160lbs off the front end does. The car transitions so much quicker. It was a hard decision for me as well. Eventually the seductive power of the 335 got me. And now with the high boosted 328's, the decision to go with the 335 is more advantageous.
For me after driving the 328 and the 335, the 335 just wasn't big enough of an improvement to justify the 5k difference (base price difference is 6k+, similarly equipped the way I wanted it was still 5k, and that's before tax). 70% of my driving is in the city anyway, where the 6 cyl wouldn't have a noticeable advantage.

I am willing to dump 1k on a performance exhaust to get that satisfying note, but the 4 cyl overall is a charmer.
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      02-06-2013, 06:53 PM   #28
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      02-06-2013, 08:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
Well... You want to save money and you end up negating the difference or most of it, by installing an aftermarket exhaust. You could have ended up with a 6 banger, a nice sound and great performance for just a little more if you had realized your mistake in the first place.

Only thing I can think of outside of the money factor for getting a 328 over a 335:

- Better fuel economy (get a Prius if you're green or a Kia if you're broke)
- Better weight distribution (very slim difference noticeable in racing only)
I drove the 335, handling was not noticed only when racing.

Fuel economy matters, it matters more and more, its part of the times.

I tested an 8spd 335 against my 6mt 328 and both got good results, but the n20 was over ten percent better, if the n55 had been a manual the gap would have been even larger.

So to spend $1000 on a 328 for an exhaust magically means you could have had an 335? No.

Me, well I modify everything, cars can always be made better. So knowing the exhaust(free but anyway) and my $300 tune gave me 335+ performance is pretty amazing as I get to keep the better handling and economy.

I bought my 328 and not a 335 as another FI straight 6 BMW is redundant for me. Factor in my unique 328 build that was almost one of a kind due to the low price I snagged it for, yeah woks for me. If they offered me a 335 for the same price, would I say no, give me the 328...no.

The idea that no one would want a 328 if they could afford a 335 is pretty presumptuous. Some guys prefer c-cups to d-cups lol. For me, I already have a wife(in this case the 500+hp BMW) with double DD's so having a fling with a girl with C's is nice for a change lol.
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      02-06-2013, 08:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
Understood, $10k difference is considerable.

Here in the US it's not even $5k... Which incidentally is the price of a high-end exhaust system inc. install. And it's not like that's going to fix the noise under the hood, just behind the car (artificially).
There are 1-3 $2500 exhaust options but 3-5 that run $800-1200. Install is an hour or less of labor, you are talking about $100. So I am not seeing your $5k exhaust made of titanium and baby zebra marrow.
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      02-06-2013, 08:18 PM   #31
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The 320 is less boost friendly than the 328 as it has inferior pistons. It's not more boost friendly, they both have the same compression ratio. So your assertion that the 320 is more boost ready than the 328 is incorrect.

The 328 has smaller brakes than the 335 because it has less weight over the-nose. Larger brakes also cause an increase in unsprung weight. So just because the 328 has smaller brakes does not make them inferior to the 335. Compare stopping distances of same line, same tire cars and I am sure the 335 will not trounce the 328.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stom_m3 View Post
Actually, my 335i Msport has a clickety clack kind of idle as well. I had to take a second listen to make sure I wasn't hearing anything odd. It's not as bad as the 4 cylinder clickety clack but more than what I was expecting. Brings me back to the days of tracking my E36M3 and having oil starvation and an oil pump not strong enough to keep the lifters from clacking.

As for the off topic subject, I thought the pricing difference of the 328 to 335 was around $3k for a similarly optioned 328 car. There are a couple of things that aren't available on the 328 like the brakes. I don't know if there are any other things.

Interesting enough, the EPA numbers for the 328 and 335 are the same. Based on the new 320 that just got released, it may not be as desireable to get the 328. There was talk that previous 328's were lower compression, low boost with more aftermarket potential. When the 320 came out, the 328 got higher compression high boost which limits the overhead capacity of the 328 engine vs the low boosted 320.

That said, the 328 is wonderfully balanced. It's amazing what taking 160lbs off the front end does. The car transitions so much quicker. It was a hard decision for me as well. Eventually the seductive power of the 335 got me. And now with the high boosted 328's, the decision to go with the 335 is more advantageous.
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      02-06-2013, 11:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
The 320 is less boost friendly than the 328 as it has inferior pistons. It's not more boost friendly, they both have the same compression ratio. So your assertion that the 320 is more boost ready than the 328 is incorrect.

The 328 has smaller brakes than the 335 because it has less weight over the-nose. Larger brakes also cause an increase in unsprung weight. So just because the 328 has smaller brakes does not make them inferior to the 335. Compare stopping distances of same line, same tire cars and I am sure the 335 will not trounce the 328.
Actually you'll need to reread what I said. Look at the parts list, the cylinders for the N20 and N26 are now discountinued. Both 320 and 328 engines have been confirmed with the same 10:1 compression ratio from another board. The exhaust manifold/turbos, head, connecting rods, crankshaft, intake manifold, air filter, intercooler, throttle body, MAF, and DME/ECU all share the same part numbers. Most likely the HP/Tq difference between the two motors will be the difference between a 0 and 1 in the ECU. Hence the 320 will likely be low boost and the 328 high boost.

Someone else summarized that the 320 will be able to knock on the 328 doors but it will now be difficult for the 328 to knock on the 335 doors. Possibly what this is saying is that even the 320 could knock on the doors of the 335. I guess we'll find out shortly as more people start modifying their cars.

As for the brakes, agreed, the 328 is lighter but it's not just a one stop performance. It's obvious that both brake systems are able to bring the tires to maximum adhesion. I think you will find it rare for any modern car that can't. But it's consecutive stops and the consistency of the performance over the consecutive stops where the 335's brakes will start to perform better.

Regardless, I've made my decision and you've made your decision which is why we have what sits in our respective garages accordingly. Nothing wrong with that.

Last edited by stom_m3; 02-07-2013 at 12:27 AM.
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      02-07-2013, 12:24 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Difference down there is about $6000 so I agree, I'd go 335 ALL DAY. Its about $10,000 difference up here. Not a fan of 4 cyl sound....cant hear it at idle either. I hate that.
Actually, for Canadian buyers, the difference is only $4450 if you equip the 328i with Sportline, Premium, Executive, Heated steering wheel and sports seats (list $51250) compared to the 335i with Premium pkg. (list $55700).

Sportline is standard on the Canadian 335i, so is Sport auto transmission (not available on 328i), Rear view camera & HK sound are part of the Premium pkg, Adaptive head lights (std.), High beam assistant (std.), Heated steering wheel (std.). It is also possible to add the optional Adaptive M Suspension, Variable Sport steering and M Sport Package to a Canadian 335i; none of these options are available on a 328i.
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      02-07-2013, 03:24 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Difference down there is about $6000 so I agree, I'd go 335 ALL DAY. Its about $10,000 difference up here. Not a fan of 4 cyl sound....cant hear it at idle either. I hate that.
Actually, for Canadian buyers, the difference is only $4450 if you equip the 328i with Sportline, Premium, Executive, Heated steering wheel and sports seats (list $51250) compared to the 335i with Premium pkg. (list $55700).

Sportline is standard on the Canadian 335i, so is Sport auto transmission (not available on 328i), Rear view camera & HK sound are part of the Premium pkg, Adaptive head lights (std.), High beam assistant (std.), Heated steering wheel (std.). It is also possible to add the optional Adaptive M Suspension, Variable Sport steering and M Sport Package to a Canadian 335i; none of these options are available on a 328i.
That's it. I'm moving to Vancouver! Beautiful city filled with incredibly nice cars, lots of ramen houses, and well-equipped BMWs. What's not to love?
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      02-07-2013, 09:12 AM   #35
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The pistons were confirmed to be the same CR but different part numbers as the 320 is said to have inferior pistons. So the difference is the pistons and the dme tune with less boost to compensate for the weaker pistons. 328 can more than knock on the door of the 335 with just the BMS tune results show sub 5 second 0-60 and nearly 105mph traps. I got my tune for $300 lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stom_m3 View Post
Actually you'll need to reread what I said. Look at the parts list, the cylinders for the N20 and N26 are now discountinued. Both 320 and 328 engines have been confirmed with the same 10:1 compression ratio from another board. The exhaust manifold/turbos, head, connecting rods, crankshaft, intake manifold, air filter, intercooler, throttle body, MAF, and DME/ECU all share the same part numbers. Most likely the HP/Tq difference between the two motors will be the difference between a 0 and 1 in the ECU. Hence the 320 will likely be low boost and the 328 high boost.

Someone else summarized that the 320 will be able to knock on the 328 doors but it will now be difficult for the 328 to knock on the 335 doors. Possibly what this is saying is that even the 320 could knock on the doors of the 335. I guess we'll find out shortly as more people start modifying their cars.

As for the brakes, agreed, the 328 is lighter but it's not just a one stop performance. It's obvious that both brake systems are able to bring the tires to maximum adhesion. I think you will find it rare for any modern car that can't. But it's consecutive stops and the consistency of the performance over the consecutive stops where the 335's brakes will start to perform better.

Regardless, I've made my decision and you've made your decision which is why we have what sits in our respective garages accordingly. Nothing wrong with that.
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      02-07-2013, 09:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
Actually, for Canadian buyers, the difference is only $4450 if you equip the 328i with Sportline, Premium, Executive, Heated steering wheel and sports seats (list $51250) compared to the 335i with Premium pkg. (list $55700).

Sportline is standard on the Canadian 335i, so is Sport auto transmission (not available on 328i), Rear view camera & HK sound are part of the Premium pkg, Adaptive head lights (std.), High beam assistant (std.), Heated steering wheel (std.). It is also possible to add the optional Adaptive M Suspension, Variable Sport steering and M Sport Package to a Canadian 335i; none of these options are available on a 328i.
I just looked at base for each.
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      02-07-2013, 09:53 AM   #37
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Getting back on topic...

OP the noise you're hearing is likely the solenoid for the injection pump on the fuel rail. Interestingly the acoustic cover on the engine does not cover the pump, so you get that clickity-clack at idle. I learned recently that some cars were built without a sound dampener. It might be worth while to take the car to the dealer and ask them to visually inspect the pump and make sure the sound dampener is there. A friend is a master tech at a local BMW dealership and he had a customer car in the shop without the dampener. He reported a slight improvement in sound with it installed.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...16&hg=13&fg=15

I am referring to parts 9-11 on the diagram.
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      02-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
The pistons were confirmed to be the same CR but different part numbers as the 320 is said to have inferior pistons. So the difference is the pistons and the dme tune with less boost to compensate for the weaker pistons. 328 can more than knock on the door of the 335 with just the BMS tune results show sub 5 second 0-60 and nearly 105mph traps. I got my tune for $300 lol.
Where did you see that they were different part numbers? When I looked all I saw is that the pistons were discontinued for the N20 and N26 and the 320 had the only current piston. There was discussion that in other countries the pistons were different but no discussions for the US market comparison.

Congratulations on your tune.
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      02-07-2013, 11:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I saw it on the Playstation
LOL
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Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
I see it this way: with the 328 you're boosting an already boosted engine. You can see where this is going in terms of long term reliability of the car.

With the 335 you can boost if you want to (it's not like you need to), and you have plenty of room for that due to the engine being considerably more relaxed when stock. Maybe you get 335 engine performance with your tune, I will get M3 engine performance with mine. Just saying.
I have been working on modifying cars and designing/developing product including cars in my early days for a decade+.

BMW did not build the N20 and make it so high strung that it barely gets by suriving and lasting. That is not how an engine is engineered. The tune I have added makes 3psi more at WOT. It's really not much more stress. In fact, BMW agrees as they have developed their own PPK that increases power on a stock N20. Dinan is making a tune as well, also backed by a warranty that matches BMW.

Now, it's true. It theoretically could shorten the life of say the turbo, down from 120k miles, shorten it 10-15%(the increase in boost) and now it will only last 100k miles. But fact is, other stock N20's could have the same failure based on city usage, oil change intervals, etc. It could also just be the life of one part vs another as a manufacturing means one just lasted longer than the other. So even if some components like my turbo fail sooner due to my tune, I don't plan on owning this car after 100k anyway.

Have fun with M3 performance on your 335...with your open differential and all the things missing that make up an M-car. I will have my $300 investment in my DD 328 and on weekends or track days get into my real M-car with an LSD and a shitload of power.
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      02-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
"See what is missing in the above list? The difference in the 320i and the 328i is the pistons. While both have a 10:1 compression ratio the 320i has a different part numbers for the pistons then the 328i."
I've read that thread too.

The way it looks from what I can research. The 328 N20 and N26 made prior to 11/12 have the same pistons with part no. 11257618811. That part has now "Ended" and the only current part that is shown is listed under the 320 N20 configuration, part no. 11257640168. I'm assuming that 328 engines made after 11/12 is made with the new piston/engine configuration using the same pistons in the 320.

That said, I could be wrong and possibly someone who works at BMW could confirm part numbers.
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      02-07-2013, 12:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stom_m3 View Post
I've read that thread too.

The way it looks from what I can research. The 328 N20 and N26 made prior to 11/12 have the same pistons with part no. 11257618811. That part has now "Ended" and the only current part that is shown is listed under the 320 N20 configuration, part no. 11257640168. I'm assuming that 328 engines made after 11/12 is made with the new piston/engine configuration using the same pistons in the 320.

That said, I could be wrong and possibly someone who works at BMW could confirm part numbers.
That makes me nervous.

It means either the 320 is getting better pistons thanks to the 328 or that the 328 will be getting inferior pistons now that the 320 is being made for the us and in a larger scale.
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      02-07-2013, 12:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
That makes me nervous.

It means either the 320 is getting better pistons thanks to the 328 or that the 328 will be getting inferior pistons now that the 320 is being made for the us and in a larger scale.
Yup.. And now the conspiracy theories can start...
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      02-07-2013, 02:48 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by stom_m3 View Post
Yup.. And now the conspiracy theories can start...
Yeah, fun!

I got my N20, before even knowing of the n26. Its had 20 dyno pulls and was shown to be strong and runs strong. So if BMW screws up what comes next, so be it lol.
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      02-14-2013, 10:52 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
This sentiment just oooooooozes snobbery.

What you're saying in other words:

"It's stupid to spend 1.3k to upgrade the sound on your 328i, because for another 4k you could have gotten a 335i. And if that additional 4k actually matters to you, well then you're just a broke person who's reasoning I don't understand".

A) I've heard a 328i with performance exhaust, and a 335 with stock. Personally prefer the 328 with perf exhaust at higher revs. So no, just upgrading to a 335 would not be the same as installing the performance exhaust on a 328.

B) For a lot of us here that additional 4k is a size-able chunk of money. Does that mean we're broke or poorer than you or whatever? No, it just means we have different priorities.

Well said. It annoys the hell out of me when people make remarks about "upgrading" to a 335. I purchased a 328xi M cause that's what i felt was sufficient for my needs and wants. If i didn't have a wife, kids, and a mortgage, guess what....i would've been driving an M5. LOL
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