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      02-08-2013, 10:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
The difference is actually $1650. When I wrote the first post, I admit I just eye-balled the price difference. But I stand by my earlier statements too as I still think having the added power of the 328i is worth $1650.

BMW 320i : $44,295
  • Premium Package
  • Driver Assistance Package
  • Lighting Package
  • Sport Package
  • Heated Front Seats
  • Moonroof
  • Navigation

BMW 328i base model : 45,945
  • Dynamic Handling Package\
  • Lighting Package
  • Navigation
  • Moonroof
  • Park Distance Control
  • Rear View Camera
  • Leather Seats
We've talked about this in this thread but in a way you are right and wrong. Of course the numbers are correct. But only a fool would option a 320i in the US this heavily and not get a 328i instead. I don't think BMW plans on selling many loaded 320i's here. Most will be pretty basic or just have leather and or premium. If I were to get one it would have sport, maybe leather and heated seats.
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      02-08-2013, 10:41 PM   #46
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Tony20009,
I'm not trying to debate with you, just making sure you are calculating correctly because it seemed you really wanted the 320 until you started to build one up. I thought you included leather and didnt write it down because I wasnt getting the numbers to add up. On 2nd look, my configurator has the moonroof included in the premium package, hence my total of $44, 445 including leather. Maybe BMW is still adjusting prices or its website?
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      02-09-2013, 04:40 AM   #47
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gotta love my 320i

I just got my 320i delivered this week. BMW in New Zealand is running a promotion to celebrate 30yrs in NZ. Base price for a 320i is $74,300. For just $75,900 you get the base 320i with the following options (total extra options are worth $12,100)

- Adaptive Bi xenons with high beam assist
- Full colour head up display
- Sat navigation
- Rear view camera
- M performance kidney grill and rear spoiler
- 18-inch wheels
- privacy tints rear windows

Not sure how the base model specs are elsewhere but here, we have Dakota leather as standard.

To be honest, 135kw & 270nm of torque is more than enough for daily driving from my perspective. The car handles well, pick up is good and for $1600 extra, I am getting $12k worth of options. In this case, I think it's worth it getting the 320i.

The 328i sells at $85,900 here in NZ and only has the Bixenon and sat navigation as standard from the list of options mentioned above.
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      02-09-2013, 10:08 AM   #48
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320i sport, lighting packs + sunroof + heated seats ---> 37195$
328i sportline, lighting pack + sunroof + heated seats ---> 42695$

A difference of 5500$+txs+financing is enough to make think twice.

BTW, the 320i is quick enough for everyday driving. 0-60mph in 7.1s is like my old 325i 184HP and I never complained.
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      02-09-2013, 11:49 AM   #49
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Looks like it probably is just me. As someone above said, the minimal difference I'm finding could be the result of my choice of options and packages which results in the 320 being almost fully loaded. Tuned2ride clearly, for example, has found a configuration that works for him and that definitely yields a good savings. I too could do just fine with the 320's power deficit for $5000.

One observation, however, about tuned2ride's pricing: his profile says he lives in Hell. BMW may have been reticent to offer poor values to the people in that region for fear of retribution.
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      02-09-2013, 04:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuned2ride View Post
320i sport, lighting packs + sunroof + heated seats ---> 37195$
328i sportline, lighting pack + sunroof + heated seats + power seats + fold down rear seats ---> 42695$

A difference of 5500$+txs+financing is enough to make think twice.

BTW, the 320i is quick enough for everyday driving. 0-60mph in 7.1s is like my old 325i 184HP and I never complained.
The 328i does have some more standard features. If they are important or not to you is a different story as it would cost ~$1500 to get them on the 320i.
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      02-09-2013, 06:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I think he meant between the same series. Some people will buy the cheapest version of something because it has the name.
BMW already tried this angle in the United States and failed miserably.

from wiki:

When introduced in the United States and Canada, despite being reasonably priced, starting at $19,900 (USD), the 318ti never enjoyed popularity in North America. While consumers desired a less expensive BMW, North American consumers, America in particular, dislike the hatchback bodystyle. Also the popularity of sport utility vehicles at the time overshadowed the compact BMW.
BMW ceased importation of the BMW Compact to North America after the 1999 model year after a very short 4 year run due to a combination of poor sales, and BMW's desire to reposition themselves more upmarket by phasing out all 4-cylinder vehicles with the introduction of the new BMW E46 3-series. The failure of the E36 Compact precluded the E46 Compact's entry into the North American market.
The failure of the E36 BMW Compact in North America also prompted BMW to reconfigure the BMW Compact's ultimate successor, the BMW 1 Series, from a hatchback to a coupe before attempting to market the car in North America again.





More recently, the 1 series and X1 have been sales flops.
Americans aren't that stupid. The know that there's really no such thing as a "People's" BMW. That's what Civics and Focus' are for.

The X1 is the newest flop because BMW drivers immediately check off 10,000 of options and then either:

1. Get an x3

or

2. Shop another brand.


The only way cheap BMW's will work here is if they remove the options. Lots of people start out looking for a "cheap BMW" and wind up in a loaded up Hyundai. It's the bells and whistle and shiny lights crowd.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-09-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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      02-09-2013, 06:14 PM   #52
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Once again: what BMW drivers say and what BMW do are two entirely different things.

BMW drivers claim they want an adequately powered low weight vehicle with excellent driving dynamics.

They then check off as many option boxes as possible.
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      02-09-2013, 06:22 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
They are not expecting people to bling these out. They are expecting the young badge whores not sure about leasing a 328i stripper for $399/mo. to snap these up stripped at $299/mo.
I'm thinking this...or to compete with the Merc CLA
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      02-09-2013, 06:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
BMW already tried this angle in the United States and failed miserably.

More recently, the 1 series and X1 have been sales flops.
Americans aren't that stupid. The know that there's really no such thing as a "People's" BMW. That's what Civics and Focus' are for.
Shows the difference in other markets. Over here in the UK the smaller powered BMWs sell in far bigger numbers than the bigger engine models.

We are even getting the smaller output 2.0i engine as a 520i in the F10 5-series. Will make a change to all the 520d 5-series.

How about a 316i? Just a humble 1.6 litre with 136hp, in the F30. That is on our specification list over here.

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      02-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #55
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Good evening fellow members, i recently preferred a 320i over a 328i because it was close to 20K euros cheaper. Unfortunately in Turkey tax rates are so high i paid 50,200 Euros for a no line comfort pack, techno pack sunroof mineral gray
320i with non heated manual seats, standard 6 speaker audio. i want to pull my hair out when i read or see the prices and specs of the BMW's sold in the U.S. if i lived in the States i would have no reason to buy a 320i. i would go straight for the 335i. However for people like me living in overtaxed countries even a 320i is not logical. Most F30's here are 316i or 320d (btw a gallon gas is close to $10 in istanbul) and the 320d starts at 55,000 euros. We would be looking at close to $80,000 - $90,000 for a sportline power and heated seat, harmann kardon, navigation, 18inch wheels cruise control equipped 320i.
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      02-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Shows the difference in other markets. Over here in the UK the smaller powered BMWs sell in far bigger numbers than the bigger engine models.

We are even getting the smaller output 2.0i engine as a 520i in the F10 5-series. Will make a change to all the 520d 5-series.

How about a 316i? Just a humble 1.6 litre with 136hp, in the F30. That is on our specification list over here.

HighlandPete
Well...the 328i outsells the 335i by a HUGE factor here, so it's not entirely the case...but it is odd.

Let's see how the 320i gamble by BMW shakes out...I suspect it'll be very profitable, especially when competing with the likes of the CLA by MBUSA.
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      02-09-2013, 07:36 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Shows the difference in other markets. Over here in the UK the smaller powered BMWs sell in far bigger numbers than the bigger engine models.

We are even getting the smaller output 2.0i engine as a 520i in the F10 5-series. Will make a change to all the 520d 5-series.

How about a 316i? Just a humble 1.6 litre with 136hp, in the F30. That is on our specification list over here.

HighlandPete

Yes, the markets are definitely different. To some extent BMW is a victim of its own success in the US Market. Meaning, Americans associate BMW with high end luxury as opposed to what we would refer to as reliable transportation.

The 6 cylinder 3 series is iconic in the United States and has always been known as BMW's respected entry level model. Perhaps Americans have become more used to 4 bangers and won't care as much as they used to about displacement. Afterall, we never really had to consider fuel costs the way the UK and Europe traditionally have.
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      02-09-2013, 08:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
Well...the 328i outsells the 335i by a HUGE factor here, so it's not entirely the case...but it is odd.

Let's see how the 320i gamble by BMW shakes out...I suspect it'll be very profitable, especially when competing with the likes of the CLA by MBUSA.
I think it's a gamble. BMW in NA is seen as a luxury car (as is MB). Once you start offering sub $30k versions, you dip in the economy car territory and BMW looses the luster of being luxurious. The reason more people buy the 328 is because it's cheaper, but not so cheap as to not feel like a luxury car model.

Delete all the luxury features and you've pretty much lost that crowd and perception. Like someone else mentioned you could go grab a ford/nissan/honda/hyundai load it up with options and see way more bang for your buck (one could already argue that now though). I personally think it's not a great marketing idea for those that purchase the higher end models, they'll lose their luster. Seeing a $25k model out there doesn't exactly make the guy driving the $70k M3 feel like his brand is truly the ultimate driving machine anymore.

I wont even mention the 7 series. I think Toyota, Honda, and Nissan were on to something by creating a completely different make for their luxury brands. Someone feels like they have a completely different experience in a Lexus versus a Toyota and the perception from others is the same.
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      02-09-2013, 08:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I think it's a gamble. BMW in NA is seen as a luxury car (as is MB). Once you start offering sub $30k versions, you dip in the economy car territory and BMW looses the luster of being luxurious. The reason more people buy the 328 is because it's cheaper, but not so cheap as to not feel like a luxury car model.

Delete all the luxury features and you've pretty much lost that crowd and perception. Like someone else mentioned you could go grab a ford/nissan/honda/hyundai load it up with options and see way more bang for your buck (one could already argue that now though). I personally think it's not a great marketing idea for those that purchase the higher end models, they'll lose their luster. Seeing a $25k model out there doesn't exactly make the guy driving the $70k M3 feel like his brand is truly the ultimate driving machine anymore.

I wont even mention the 7 series. I think Toyota, Honda, and Nissan were on to something by creating a completely different make for their luxury brands. Someone feels like they have a completely different experience in a Lexus versus a Toyota and the perception from others is the same.
In the main, I think you are right.

Most Americans see driving as controlling the steering while the car is on cruise control or as sitting in stop-and-go traffic. Moreover, with our absurdly low speed limits, most folks have little opportunity to discover what the value of a BMW, or any other, sport sedan really is. Thus, BMWs, MB, et al are just luxury cars rather than cars valued by the general public for their engineering.

Any Honda or Toyota or any other car, can drive down the interstate at 70 mph. I don't think the driver would be so confident about going 120 on the straights and 80 or 90 in the curves, however.
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      02-10-2013, 03:47 AM   #60
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As a former E92 335i owner, I think there are a couple of reasons to go for 320i:

1. In Europe the price difference is €8k between the 320i and 328i. If you go from a 2006 car to a 2012 car and you have a €10k budget, it's quite a step to raise that budget to €18k. Just became a daddy, so I can use the €8k for other (more important) things

2. Because there are less 328i's sold in Holland, the price difference for 2nd hand model is even bigger.

You can buy a full-option 2nd hand (1 year old) 328i for about €45k. A full-option 320i (same options) can be bought for about €36k.

3. 320i has an A label (less taxes and monthly costs when leasing the car)

4. 184hp is plenty for the Dutch roads. You don't only buy a BMW to go fast. You buy one for the great handling, sporty feeling and luxurious feel. Our speed limit is 120-130 km/ph. I rather put my money in a wide screen navigation, sport seats and leather than in more hp. Also because of the strict speed limitations and high fines.

5. And if you really want to go faster, for about €1k you can tune your 320i close to the output of the 328i engine.

Last edited by Mctijn; 02-10-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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      02-10-2013, 04:35 AM   #61
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In Germany the 320i is not a big success. Mostly chosen by older or retired people who have driven a mid-priced 3-series with a gas engine since the 80s. 328i didn't play a big role in Germany either. Since the 318i is gone most of the customers chose the 316i or the Diesel versions 316d, 318d or 320d.
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      02-10-2013, 08:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
You can buy a full-option 2nd hand (1 year old) 328i for about €45k. A full-option 320i (same options) can be bought for about €36k.
That is our experience here in Canada too; the E90 323i 2nd-hand were much cheaper than 328i. We have been seeing about the same with the 2012 320i.
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      02-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #63
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I've must not been paying attention lately to BMW. I had no idea they were adding the 320i to the F30 line up. Now at over 200,000 on my E90, I'll be soon looking to replace it in the next 50,000 miles (which is a year and a half for me).

I've owned a BMW 3-series since 1988 and have two in the stable right now. I've bought all three as new cars and do all my own maintenance (I hate the stupid pre-paid maintenance plan BMW makes you buy in the US). So call me not a Roundel badge whore; but I don't see the need to tart-up a great driving BMW with a bunch of options. I drive about 34,000 miles a year in my E90; I really don't want to spend an extra $7K for options that don't really enhance the driving experience.

So the 320i got my interest, until I looked into the details. On the BMW website, on some pages (the first I read), called the engine a "2.0L in-line 4 cylinder" with 180 HP; so I thought, great a naturally aspirated 4-banger (= a bit slower but with reliability and better fuel mileage), just what I need for my commute. But no, it's just a detuned N20, with no better EPA MPG rating than the N20 in the 328i. It's 0 - 60 time is 7.1 seconds vs. the 328i's 5.8 seconds. Considering the reliability of BMW's turbos (E90 335i) is not yet known for the N20, I can't justify a 320i purchase as a high mileage low maintenance cost daily driver.

Sparsely optioned, like my current E90 325i is (Sport package, Adaptive HIDs, and Bluetooth), the F30 320i comes in at $37,195. A similarly equipped 328i Sport Line comes in at $42,225, a $5,250 difference for 60 more HP and 1.3 seconds fast 0 - 60 time. Hummmm.... Not sure I see the point.

So, close BMW, close; why not give us long-timer cheapo-badge whores, a nice 2.0L naturally aspirated and reliable in-line 6 (like a 3-Series should have) with direct injection for an F30 320i price.
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      02-10-2013, 09:26 AM   #64
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So, close BMW, close; why not give us long-timer cheapo-badge whores, a nice 2.0L naturally aspirated and reliable in-line 6 (like a 3-Series should have) with direct injection for an F30 320i price.
Maybe world-wide regulations about co2 emission?

The 320i takes you a bit less quick from 0-60 than the 328i, but with remaining all other plusses of a BMW (handling, steering etc. etc.). You can decide if you want to pay $8k more to be a better traffic light racer. I don't see any problems

If you need speed and get tears in your eyes from the sound of a 6 cyl, you can buy the 335i.
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      02-10-2013, 10:24 AM   #65
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Maybe world-wide regulations about co2 emission?
That's a pretext. Because they COULD build a 184HP I6 DI NA 2.2-2.5 with no worse fuel economy / CO2 emission and as quick in 0-100km/h.... it is not a technological issue but the nonsense current Euro fashion /trend would kill it, for bad reasons (like displacement vs registration fee) irrelevant to us , in North America.
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      02-10-2013, 10:39 AM   #66
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Maybe world-wide regulations about co2 emission?

The 320i takes you a bit less quick from 0-60 than the 328i, but with remaining all other plusses of a BMW (handling, steering etc. etc.). You can decide if you want to pay $8k more to be a better traffic light racer. I don't see any problems

If you need speed and get tears in your eyes from the sound of a 6 cyl, you can buy the 335i.
CO2 output is regulated by the completeness of the burn during cylinder firing; it's a chemical process and not related to engine size.

You missed my point entirely. I don't trust the reliability of BMW's turbo engines. I currently own an E90 325i specifically for the reasons I stated, decent performance and high reliability with low maintenance costs. Like the post above, BMW COULD make a small in-line 6 cylinder with equal power and emissions of the 185 HP N20. BTW, it's not the "sound" of the in-line 6; it's the natural balance of the engine configuration (which is attributable to it's longevity). I'll kindly remind you that BMW's M20 2.5L in-line 6 of 25 years ago made 180 HP using archaic Bosch Motronic fuel injection and a solid-lifter valvetrain. Add direct injection, VANOS and Valvetronic, and 30 years advancement in engine controls; it should be a no-brainer.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 02-10-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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