F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > Regional Forums > UK > Px value?
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-06-2017, 04:43 PM   #23
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

JNW1 TheLiverBird If you are keen to change cars, then VTing is a reasonable option but it’s a very very expensive way to rent a car for a few years. If it all works with your budgeted cost per month (if indeed you need/ want to budget) then all is well.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2017, 05:39 PM   #24
TheLiverBird
Lieutenant
TheLiverBird's Avatar
United Kingdom
124
Rep
539
Posts

Drives: 435D M-Sport EBII
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
JNW1 TheLiverBird If you are keen to change cars, then VTing is a reasonable option but it’s a very very expensive way to rent a car for a few years. If it all works with your budgeted cost per month (if indeed you need/ want to budget) then all is well.
Think that?s exactly it - if you?re happy with the payments / deposit etc and can afford them, then all?s fine!

I?m perfectly happy with the ?relative? freedom of a PCP and the options I have throughout and at the end, compared to a lease. I accept the deposit is gone, but I?m happy to put a big chunk in and see my monthlies reduced as keeping the money for the deposit in a savings account still won?t earn me what it?s stopping me losing in interest by reducing the balance on the PCP.

About 5 years ago I took out a personal loan for an 18 month old A5 at £27.5k. Paid a £2.5k deposit and was paying £555 per month over 5 years. I traded it in after 2 years with a little equity and at the time was quite happy with those figures. Then I went all PCP, put £6k down on the 435D and am paying £480 per month. Soon, with a PCP, I?ll be putting down a £5k deposit and getting to drive a new S5 for 2 years at £399 a month (and yes I realise that with the deposit it?s actually just over £600 per month roughly but who?s counting) and I?m quite comfortable with those figures too!

Although having just re-read that last paragraph I?ve realise I?ve spent a bloody shed load feeding my habit of changing cars far too frequently, but my man-maths means it doesn?t matter because I?m happy.

Ultimately it comes down to personal choice and what works for you / your family at any given point. If I had a spare £50k to buy the car outright and interest rates are as low as they are for savers at the moment I probably would - but I haven?t, so for me, a PCP gets me a nice car, at a rate I can comfortably afford.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2017, 06:16 PM   #25
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLiverBird View Post
Although having just re-read that last paragraph I?ve realise I?ve spent a bloody shed load feeding my habit of changing cars far too frequently, but my man-maths means it doesn?t matter because I?m happy.
Exactly. Everyone has their own budgets but for me when the monthly car cost started going North of 500 a month, I was thinking, I could get another property to let.....and then a more expensive car ;-)
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2017, 06:38 PM   #26
XAlp
Lieutenant
63
Rep
514
Posts

Drives: 335d XDrive M Sport+ Touring
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cambridge

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphyBMW View Post
Sounds like a terrible deal tbh.
P/x is low
New car seems v expensive unless it?s a proper Christmas tree.
This one:

https://listers.co.uk/Used/Cars/BMW/...n_Coupe/246612
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2017, 07:12 PM   #27
Alex440
Lieutenant Colonel
Alex440's Avatar
United Kingdom
794
Rep
1,974
Posts

Drives: 440i GC
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chesterfield

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
JNW1 TheLiverBird If you are keen to change cars, then VTing is a reasonable option but its a very very expensive way to rent a car for a few years. If it all works with your budgeted cost per month (if indeed you need/ want to budget) then all is well.
It's only more expensive if you were planning on keeping it longer than the PCP lasted, if not the monthly cost is the same.

Actually, I'm wrong, that's only true if you put in zero deposit. If you put in 4800 on a 48 month pcp it's costing you 100 a month on top of your monthly payment, if you VT after 36 months it's costing you 133 a month on top.

I don't put any deposit in at all, not even 500, therefore unless I was planning on buying it after 4 years, which I'm not, it isn't more expensive to VT.

My VT point comes up at 31 months into a 48 month pcp. With this car I'm going to try and get past it, especially if I throw 1750 at the MPPSK. But, I know what I'm like. It'll be 2 years after I bought the exhaust and the money spent will be ancient history, I'll probably still end up going for something new.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2017, 08:27 PM   #28
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
It's only more expensive if you were planning on keeping it longer than the PCP lasted, if not the monthly cost is the same.

Actually, I'm wrong, that's only true if you put in zero deposit. If you put in 4800 on a 48 month pcp it's costing you 100 a month on top of your monthly payment, if you VT after 36 months it's costing you 133 a month on top.

I don't put any deposit in at all, not even 500, therefore unless I was planning on buying it after 4 years, which I'm not, it isn't more expensive to VT.

My VT point comes up at 31 months into a 48 month pcp. With this car I'm going to try and get past it, especially if I throw 1750 at the MPPSK. But, I know what I'm like. It'll be 2 years after I bought the exhaust and the money spent will be ancient history, I'll probably still end up going for something new.
Alex440 Regardless of how often this is discussed, you still seem to believe deposits are lost.

When you VT, you have to pay 50% regardless. It doesn’t matter if, on a 40k car, you put in 10 or 10000, at VT point it’s 20 grand gone. Buy putting in a smaller deposit, all you are doing is increasing the monthlies, increasing the interest and increasing the period before you an VT.

The earlier you VT, the higher the cost per month. It’s the cost per month I’m taking about being more expensive.
Appreciate 1
      10-07-2017, 02:26 AM   #29
mssond
Lieutenant
114
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: on order
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brizzle

iTrader: (0)

http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtop...be8345c80901cf

Looks like a great deal on 440i by trl
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 07:42 AM   #30
HighlandPete
Major General
1434
Rep
8,850
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Alex440 Regardless of how often this is discussed, you still seem to believe deposits are lost.

When you VT, you have to pay 50% regardless. It doesn’t matter if, on a 40k car, you put in 10 or 10000, at VT point it’s 20 grand gone. Buy putting in a smaller deposit, all you are doing is increasing the monthlies, increasing the interest and increasing the period before you an VT.

The earlier you VT, the higher the cost per month. It’s the cost per month I’m taking about being more expensive.
Agree with your comments. Besides the man maths often used, I believe a few on here use the female habit of putting money in different purses, don't add up the real/total costs.

We fund depreciation after all, however we finance a car. Good deals/best part exchange offers may lower the costs a little. VT may work in a few instances to dodge a bullet, but when we stand back and look at the real costs, most would benefit financially by keeping a car until depreciation levels off a bit.
Appreciate 3
      10-07-2017, 11:26 AM   #31
Alex440
Lieutenant Colonel
Alex440's Avatar
United Kingdom
794
Rep
1,974
Posts

Drives: 440i GC
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chesterfield

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Alex440 Regardless of how often this is discussed, you still seem to believe deposits are lost.

When you VT, you have to pay 50% regardless. It doesnt matter if, on a 40k car, you put in 10 or 10000, at VT point its 20 grand gone. Buy putting in a smaller deposit, all you are doing is increasing the monthlies, increasing the interest and increasing the period before you an VT.

The earlier you VT, the higher the cost per month. Its the cost per month Im taking about being more expensive.
And no matter how often it is discussed you still don't understand either.

If you put no deposit down and if you're not intending to buy at the end, VTing as soon as you can is categorically no more expensive per month.

My monthly payment is 606 per month and I don't choose that amount it is defined by my mileage, I cannot pay less. If I keep it 31 months and VT it costs me 606 a month, if I keep it 48 months it still costs me 606 per month. There is zero difference.

It really is pretty simple.

If you put a deposit in then that is spread over the full term reducing every single monthly payment. So if you VT early you are losing the deposit that would have been reducing your remaining payments.

At no point have I ever said anything about making optional extra payments to reach the VT point. That would be wasted money. I am just referring to the minimum payments defined by BMWFS.
Appreciate 1
      10-07-2017, 12:32 PM   #32
RalphyBMW
Captain
United Kingdom
90
Rep
883
Posts

Drives: F31 330d xDrive MSport
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: West Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAlp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphyBMW View Post
Sounds like a terrible deal tbh.
P/x is low
New car seems v expensive unless it?s a proper Christmas tree.
This one:

https://listers.co.uk/Used/Cars/BMW/...n_Coupe/246612
That?s a terrible spec and well overpriced, you could buy New for less!

Look for BMW specialists and phone up for a bid on yours.
__________________
2016 F80 M3
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 12:53 PM   #33
JD6
Brigadier General
937
Rep
3,179
Posts

Drives: F30 335d MS+ ACS springs MPSS
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphyBMW View Post
That?s a terrible spec and well overpriced, you could buy New for less!

Look for BMW specialists and phone up for a bid on yours.
I agree - both sides of that deal look poor value. I would have expected the price to change to be more like 15k than 24.5k! (based on 19k and 34k). They do seem to have gone low on your car, and the extreme high on their one.

As RalphyBMW suggests, you could get a similar spec new 440i GC for about 4-5k less than than that used one! TRL had some available at around 37k I believe
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 01:30 PM   #34
XAlp
Lieutenant
63
Rep
514
Posts

Drives: 335d XDrive M Sport+ Touring
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cambridge

iTrader: (0)

Thanks all - yes the TRL ones put it into perspective I feel.
Nice looker though in SRB!! Saw same without the M performance bits in Heathrow this morning - rather tasty.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 02:08 PM   #35
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
And no matter how often it is discussed you still don't understand either.

If you put no deposit down and if you're not intending to buy at the end, VTing as soon as you can is categorically no more expensive per month.

My monthly payment is 606 per month and I don't choose that amount it is defined by my mileage, I cannot pay less. If I keep it 31 months and VT it costs me 606 a month, if I keep it 48 months it still costs me 606 per month. There is zero difference.
Im not talking about your regular monthly cost. Im talking about the cost per month of ownership and that changes.

My monthly cost is 325 per month and my GFV is 22k. Cost of ownership at month 36 (end of pcp) is around 530pm assuming I hand the car back. If I VTd at say month 30 the cost per month would be around 700.

And the deposit is not lost. It is in the cost you have to pay either by VT or end of pcp term.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #36
ukbeemerboy
Beemer Heaven
ukbeemerboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
215
Rep
2,542
Posts

Drives: BMW 330d M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somerset UK

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooded View Post
[/b]

Unless it's a blue performance 330d ..then the pre-2015 ones are also euro 6.

I'm not seeing the drop in diesel car value I keep hearing about on 4 year 330d's in M-sport yet though unfortunately, looking around on auto trader they're still around the same price as 6 months ago
Pre 2015 cars are Euro 5 not 6. The car Ive just sold was Nov 2014 129g/km and 115 a year to tax. The post 2015 cars are 131g/km and are 130 a year to tax as in the next bracket but are Euro 6. Remember also, its not the reg date, but the build date of the car.
__________________
Scott

2017 BMW 330d M Sport : 2015 BMW 220d M Sport
2008 Mini Cooper
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 04:13 PM   #37
Alex440
Lieutenant Colonel
Alex440's Avatar
United Kingdom
794
Rep
1,974
Posts

Drives: 440i GC
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chesterfield

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
Im not talking about your regular monthly cost. Im talking about the cost per month of ownership and that changes.

My monthly cost is 325 per month and my GFV is 22k. Cost of ownership at month 36 (end of pcp) is around 530pm assuming I hand the car back. If I VTd at say month 30 the cost per month would be around 700.

And the deposit is not lost. It is in the cost you have to pay either by VT or end of pcp term.
My monthly cost of ownership does not change, whether I VT at 31 months, or go full term to 48 months. It is the same, so there is no reason not to.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 06:17 PM   #38
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
My monthly cost of ownership does not change, whether I VT at 31 months, or go full term to 48 months. It is the same, so there is no reason not to.
OK. Ill make it really really simple.
Lets say you VT a 40k car. 40k /2 = VT amount (20k)

If you do this in month 2, your monthly cost of ownership is 10k per month. (
20k/ 2 months).
VT in month 20 = 20k/ 20= 1k per month.


I think you are confusing the cost of ownership per month with your contracted monthly payment.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 03:49 AM   #39
Alex440
Lieutenant Colonel
Alex440's Avatar
United Kingdom
794
Rep
1,974
Posts

Drives: 440i GC
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chesterfield

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
OK. Ill make it really really simple.
Lets say you VT a 40k car. 40k /2 = VT amount (20k)

If you do this in month 2, your monthly cost of ownership is 10k per month. (
20k/ 2 months).
VT in month 20 = 20k/ 20= 1k per month.


I think you are confusing the cost of ownership per month with your contracted monthly payment.
I think you are confusing the fact that in my circumstances, with no deposit, they are exactly the same.

You are also confusing what most people call the VT point. It is not paying it off early, it is terminating with no penalty after paying the payments set by the finance company, up to the point you have paid half the purchase price plus interest.

My point comes at 31 months, where it will have cost me 606 per month. At 48 months it will still have cost me 606 per month.

I accept that if I terminate at 20 months that I will have to pay the balance up to 20k ish, therefore increasing my cost of ownership. But, it is just irrelevant, as as far as I can see, no one has talked on here about VTing before the zero balance to pay off point. The VT point is always at that half way mark. No one apart from you is talking about paying an extra balance payment to get to it.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 04:32 AM   #40
Alex440
Lieutenant Colonel
Alex440's Avatar
United Kingdom
794
Rep
1,974
Posts

Drives: 440i GC
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chesterfield

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
OK. Ill make it really really simple.
Lets say you VT a 40k car. 40k /2 = VT amount (20k)

If you do this in month 2, your monthly cost of ownership is 10k per month. (
20k/ 2 months).
VT in month 20 = 20k/ 20= 1k per month.


I think you are confusing the cost of ownership per month with your contracted monthly payment.
Using a similar example I'll keep it simple too.

Payments of 600 per month set by BMWFS gets you to 20k in 34 months. 600 x 34 = 20,400

From that point on, the payments still stay at 600. You don't just stop paying once you reach 20k.

Therefore, between 34 months and 48 months the monthly payment and cost of ownership are identical.

No one has talked about VTing before this point is reached.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 06:32 AM   #41
Nobby Clark
Major
Nobby Clark's Avatar
446
Rep
1,255
Posts

Drives: F36 430d xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
Using a similar example I'll keep it simple too.

Payments of 600 per month set by BMWFS gets you to 20k in 34 months. 600 x 34 = 20,400

From that point on, the payments still stay at 600. You don't just stop paying once you reach 20k.

Therefore, between 34 months and 48 months the monthly payment and cost of ownership are identical.

No one has talked about VTing before this point is reached.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 07:17 AM   #42
rich100
Lieutenant Colonel
502
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: F31 320i Xdrive msport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

So Im thinking now you are kind of both right ?
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:51 AM   #43
JNW1
Lieutenant Colonel
487
Rep
1,655
Posts

Drives: F31 335d
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby Clark View Post
OK. I’ll make it really really simple.
Let’s say you VT a 40k car. 40k /2 = VT amount (20k)

If you do this in month 2, your monthly cost of ownership is 10k per month. (
20k/ 2 months).
VT in month 20 = 20k/ 20= 1k per month.


I think you are confusing the cost of ownership per month with your contracted monthly payment.
You're right but you're also introducing a scenario nobody has ever mentioned (i.e. paying a lump sum in order to then VT). The context in which VT was raised was when the VT point was reached in the normal course of the agreement, not paying a lump sum to get there!

Anyway, leaving that aside, if you've put down a sizeable deposit and choose to VT I can see the argument that says to get to the effective monthly cost of ownership you need to spread the deposit over the months you've actually kept the car (and fewer months obviously equates to a higher monthly cost).

However, in the zero deposit example Alex describes I think he's right, there's no additional monthly cost associated with VT. Surely in that scenario the cost of ownership per month and the contracted monthly payment are one of the same or am I missing something?

Last edited by JNW1; 10-08-2017 at 12:30 PM.
Appreciate 1
      10-08-2017, 11:16 AM   #44
HighlandPete
Major General
1434
Rep
8,850
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
...However, in the zero deposit example Alex describes I think he's right, there's no additional monthly cost associated with VT. Surely in that scenario the cost of ownership per month and the contracted monthly payment are one of the same or am I missing something?
As you say, it is the deposit which adds to the real monthly cost, if a VT.

How does the interest sit in the VT debate. I could work it out, but I'm sure some forum members have it at their finger tips.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:13 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST