F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > Is the 2nd amendment outdated or not?
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-07-2017, 04:03 PM   #45
jmg
Brigadier General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
2390
Rep
4,015
Posts

Drives: 2016 F80 M3, i3 REx
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowflies View Post
When the 2nd amendment was written, military and militia were roughly in the same technological playing field. Today the gap between militia and military is huge compared to when the 2nd was written. Do we honestly think that a well regulated militia will aptly defend against the military (even if the military went all Nazi on us)? Cmon letís be serious. Even with bump sticks and fully automatic, we canít defend against a rogue govt. on that fact alone it should be re-evaluated.
The inadequacies of the citizen to be able to defend itself should not be taken away completely just because of such inadequacies.
__________________
F80 ///M3
i3 REx Giga World
Previous: F30 340i M Sport ZTR ē F30 328i Sport ē Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 04:26 PM   #46
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
423
Rep
6,433
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Context for the 2nd Amendment : https://mises.org/library/american-m...reassessment-0

In any case, an armed population can keep the government in check. Afterall if the US military can't dominant Afghanistan what makes anyone think it could dominant the domestic population in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Surely you are joking!! The US military success in Afghanistan has nothing to do with ability. Military success in Afghanistan is purely political - just like Viet Nam was.
sew
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
It's about cost. The ROI for Afghanistan is negative with their poorly equiped enemy. For the US it would be even worse.
You just proved my point. ROI has nothing to do with military capability - it is a political assessment. ROI is a financial/political assessment. Military uses Risk Assessment and Acceptable Risk - not ROI.
You're still missing the point which is the US Military is incapable of holding down an armed populace within the US.
__________________
"Drive more, worry less. "

435i, MPPK, MPE, M-Sport Line
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 06:24 PM   #47
Mr Carrots
Second Lieutenant
77
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240ix - VR DP & JB4
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I spent 21 years in the Air Force, including a one year combat tour in SEA, flying F4 combat missions in Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia. I know something. And the lack of success in Afghanistan is totally about politics - we only have about 11,000 total troops there and a limited ROE.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/04...t-taliban.html
Its a ridiculous scenario anyway, the idea that the National Guard would open fire on Americans is just part of the current leftist Trump Derangement where they genuinely believe that 2 Scoops Donny is going to declare marital law and confiscate their Washington Post subscriptions because Trump is literally Hitler

Imagine our troops actually killing American patriots, utter delusional nonsense, any officers giving those orders would have a full rebellion on their hands. It's not like dealing with looters or rioters
Appreciate 1
      10-07-2017, 09:58 PM   #48
bbbbmw
Brigadier General
1393
Rep
4,483
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
... immigrants, who have a higher rate of violence than citizens ... and illegals have a much higher rate of crimes against citizens than the legal immigrants.
I don't think this is true. Do you have sources?

And, are you suggesting that we citizens need guns at our sides to protect us from immigrants? I'm not sure where you live, but around my city we don't have bands of Muslims or Mexicans roaming the neighborhoods looking to hurt people.
Do you live in a state that borders Mexico?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2017, 10:24 PM   #49
are0lies
First Lieutenant
United_States
859
Rep
338
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 E93
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Riverside

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
Its a ridiculous scenario anyway, the idea that the National Guard would open fire on Americans is just part of the current leftist Trump Derangement where they genuinely believe that 2 Scoops Donny is going to declare marital law and confiscate their Washington Post subscriptions because Trump is literally Hitler

Imagine our troops actually killing American patriots, utter delusional nonsense, any officers giving those orders would have a full rebellion on their hands. It's not like dealing with looters or rioters
Call it what you want, but here it is.

1970
"National Guard kills four at Kent State"
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...-at-kent-state
Appreciate 1
      10-08-2017, 12:05 AM   #50
Mr Carrots
Second Lieutenant
77
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240ix - VR DP & JB4
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
Call it what you want, but here it is.

1970
"National Guard kills four at Kent State"
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...-at-kent-state


Nearly 50 years ago, unthinkable today - we have rioters throwing concrete and molotovs at police to protest Trump and the riot police at most will use rubber bullets and tear gas.

Unless you're opening fire on the NG or looting a disaster area and killing other survivors its highly unlikely they're going to shoot you in todays age
Appreciate 1
      10-08-2017, 12:15 AM   #51
are0lies
First Lieutenant
United_States
859
Rep
338
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 E93
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Riverside

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
Nearly 50 years ago, unthinkable today - we have rioters throwing concrete and molotovs at police to protest Trump and the riot police at most will use rubber bullets and tear gas.

Unless you're opening fire on the NG or looting a disaster area and killing other survivors its highly unlikely they're going to shoot you in todays age
I was just pointing out that it happened. Will it happen again? If you believe that history repeats itself, then yes it can.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 06:00 AM   #52
Zlaatan
Lieutenant
Sweden
163
Rep
560
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by david in germany View Post
The second amandment guarantees the first and fourth amendments. The second amendment has no legal connection to hunting or sport shooting and is our only way to keep the government in check. It is most likely why no other nation has dared to attack the US with any kind of land assault. As for people bashing the NRA, show me any firearm attack in the US that was perpetrated by a NRA member. (There may be some/one but I have never heard of one). People lawfully carrying firearms are generally (statistcly) the most lawfull people in the general population.
In my opinion, the second amendment should allow a law abiding citizen the right to own any weapon that any standard infantry soldier is allowed to carry as it did when it was written. If you do the research, the second amendment was said to not have covered cannons on private ships and vessels but courts in those days determined that it did in fact cover military cannons on private ships and vessels.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are most likely hundreds of more logical reasons as to why no one has ever tried to invade the US.

If a country was stupid enough to try it, they wouldn't start with a land based attack anyway.
Appreciate 2
      10-08-2017, 06:01 AM   #53
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
9737
Rep
19,228
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are most likely hundreds of more logical reasons as to why no one has ever tried to invade the US.

If a country was stupid enough to try it, they wouldn't start with a land based attack anyway.
Cyber apparently doesn't count either, and i think the 2nd amendment was around during Pearl harbor.

Oh wait, 9/11! Two wars were declared over it so i guess we should count that as an attack too.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I just love how I can derail all of your intellectual conversations for a short time with a one liner about bags of dicks

Last edited by Lups; 10-08-2017 at 06:09 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 06:25 AM   #54
Zlaatan
Lieutenant
Sweden
163
Rep
560
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Cyber apparently doesn't count either, and i think the 2nd amendment was around during Pearl harbor.
Yes that's true, but Pearl Harbour was an aerial attack on a military base, in Hawaii. The attack was also just intended to decrease the US navy's capacity, not to be the start of an invasion.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 06:49 AM   #55
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
9737
Rep
19,228
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Yes that's true, but Pearl Harbour was an aerial attack on a military base, in Hawaii. The attack was also just intended to decrease the US navy's capacity, not to be the start of an invasion.
Well, it was an attack and the second amendment didn't help, correct?

This is a weird time to live in. In my eyes i see it less terrifying if the Russians would roll over our border with tanks than if they turned us against eu, or Sweden for example. The mass mentality weaponized is scarier than let's say half a population killed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I just love how I can derail all of your intellectual conversations for a short time with a one liner about bags of dicks
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 07:00 AM   #56
Chappers 71
Colonel
Chappers 71's Avatar
United Kingdom
625
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: E92 335i SE
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kent

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are most likely hundreds of more logical reasons as to why no one has ever tried to invade the US.

If a country was stupid enough to try it, they wouldn't start with a land based attack anyway.
The logistics alone would make an invasion of America extremely unlikely, also any build up of forces would be noticed well in advance.
Unless a highly advanced alien species decides to invade.

I suppose there always the possibility of a Canadian or Mexican invasion but I doubt there would be any Red Dawn
Attached Images
 
__________________
E92 335i SE
E36 328i sport coupe
E39 540i 6SP manual
E34 M5. E34 525i sport.
VW Jetta Mk2 GTI 16v. 1679cc '67 resto-cal beetle
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 07:18 AM   #57
Wills2
Brigadier General
Wills2's Avatar
United Kingdom
1702
Rep
4,657
Posts

Drives: F80 YMB M3
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are most likely hundreds of more logical reasons as to why no one has ever tried to invade the US.
Apart from the British in 1812, sorry about that.
__________________
F80 M3 YMB/Z4C, Gone F10 M5/F31 335d/e92 M3 x 2/F10 520d x 2/997 C2S/e46 M3/e46 320d/SL320/Touareg 3.2V6/Audi allroad 2.7TDi
Appreciate 4
      10-08-2017, 07:45 AM   #58
Chappers 71
Colonel
Chappers 71's Avatar
United Kingdom
625
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: E92 335i SE
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kent

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Apart from the British in 1812, sorry about that.
Attached Images
 
__________________
E92 335i SE
E36 328i sport coupe
E39 540i 6SP manual
E34 M5. E34 525i sport.
VW Jetta Mk2 GTI 16v. 1679cc '67 resto-cal beetle
Appreciate 1
Wills21702

      10-08-2017, 08:39 AM   #59
Efthreeoh
Major General
United_States
2257
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Cyber apparently doesn't count either, and i think the 2nd amendment was around during Pearl harbor.

Oh wait, 9/11! Two wars were declared over it so i guess we should count that as an attack too.
Lups.... Hawaii didn't become a US State until 1959. It's the last star on the Flag...
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 1
      10-08-2017, 08:53 AM   #60
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
9737
Rep
19,228
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Lups.... Hawaii didn't become a US State until 1959. It's the last star on the Flag...
I could be wrong, but wasn't it like Puerto Rico until then from about 1900?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I just love how I can derail all of your intellectual conversations for a short time with a one liner about bags of dicks
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:07 AM   #61
jim996
Private First Class
40
Rep
151
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ent...b9b49f366c594b
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:13 AM   #62
are0lies
First Lieutenant
United_States
859
Rep
338
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 E93
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Riverside

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim996 View Post
Sad, but true. Nothing will change and these last 59 victims will just go down in history. Wash, rinse repeat. From reading all these similar posts, it all comes down to defending your view, and being close-minded to solutions. Sad.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:17 AM   #63
Efthreeoh
Major General
United_States
2257
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I could be wrong, but wasn't it like Puerto Rico until then from about 1900?
1946
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:20 AM   #64
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
9737
Rep
19,228
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
1946
Just goes to show you i don't remember everything!

Sorry.

Edit: I take that back, i was right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_of_Hawaii
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I just love how I can derail all of your intellectual conversations for a short time with a one liner about bags of dicks
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:28 AM   #65
Efthreeoh
Major General
United_States
2257
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Just goes to show you i don't remember everything!

Sorry.
Ah, regardless, as someone already stated, it was an attack on the US Military base at Pearl Harbor, not on the US per se, for strategic purposes. If England had a Navy base at Pearl, the Emperor of Japan would have attacked England's base in the same manner.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2017, 09:36 AM   #66
REDEV217342
Private First Class
34
Rep
100
Posts

Drives: 981 BoxsterS (sold)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
If republicans were smart they would be the first ones to propose a ban on bump stocks.
The moment you start down this road (i.e. it's the guns' fault) you open the door for the gun grabbers. They will then want semi-autos banned; then anything over 5 in a magazine will be bannedand so on and so on.

The moment the "fault" is removed from the individual and placed on the subject (guns in this case) lawful, sane minded gun owners will be infringed upon in a way like you have never seen. Mark my words on this.
Appreciate 1
jmg2390

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:33 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST