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View Poll Results: Will you buy a future M product?
Yes (my next car will definitely be an M) 26 19.70%
Most likely (I like where M is going but may look at the competition) 21 15.91%
Maybe (I'm treating all competition equally and not basing my purchase off previous cars) 49 37.12%
Most likely not (Unless M changes direction, I will look at other cars) 26 19.70%
No (don't like/wouldn't buy current M cars, definitely not buying future Ms) 10 7.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-07-2017, 10:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Congrats on the purchase. So this is your new DD?

That's definitely in a different league from any M product. No doubt that with a budget like that, and if I hypothetically didn't need back seats, I'd choose something completely different too. Probably not a GT3 - more likely an F-Type SVR, AMG GT R, or perhaps the brand new Vantage. But something with two seats and more exotic in any case.



I answered "Maybe". But then that's the way I've always approached the process. It happens that M has come up with the best match for my criteria. I am disappointed that they will not be offering a sub-M3 four door M proper model though. I don't really want a vehicle larger than my F80. My next purchase is at least two years away, and could be as many as four. We'll see.
Not a DD, although none of my M cars were DDs either (except for my 1M for an 8 month stint). I like more comfort and boredom on my way to work so I chose a Lexus for everyday Duty. I do plan to drive it to work on Fridays so I can go straight to backroads afterwards a few times a month.

It’s great you still like M. Have you tried other brands in the same category? What about an RS3 since it’s smaller than M3? Is size the main criteria for you or I guess what else makes M cars win out time and time again for you?
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      12-07-2017, 10:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
Very interesting poll OP......I'll sit on the sideline for awhile ......Phil
I hope no one thinks Iím being facetious here. Genuinely curious what is making people stay with the brand or leave.
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      12-07-2017, 10:53 PM   #25
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I hope no one thinks Iím being facetious here. Genuinely curious what is making people stay with the brand or leave.
Simply put.....after 17 years of the brand and the new direction of the M division, it was time for me to change my experience. After modifying my E92 until it got out of hand, and getting involved in the track game, my wants and needs changed. I wanted a more sports focused car and the M division wasn't producing it. I still think BMW is a great car, but the styling and mass consumer appeal they added in turned me off. I would still own a E30 in a heartbeat if the right one fell in my lap ........Phil
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      12-07-2017, 10:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Not a DD, although none of my M cars were DDs either (except for my 1M for an 8 month stint).
I see. For me, if I weren't going to drive it every day, I probably wouldn't own an M product. So, I can completely understand why you would want more - a car like your M4 was designed around the idea that there would be compromises made in order for it to be practical enough to use as a primary vehicle. If it isn't being used that way, there are definitely better garage queen or weekend cars out there.

Quote:
Itís great you still like M. Have you tried other brands in the same category? What about an RS3 since itís smaller than M3? Is size the main criteria for you or I guess what else makes M cars win out time and time again for you?
I haven't tried the RS3 because I am not in the market for a car right now. It does appear to be a compelling vehicle. But, by the time I am back in the market, it will likely be out of production. The new A45 sedan coming in 2019 or 2020 might make it on my list, however. I am not sure I am ready to give up RWD though, so, if I decide I can live without four doors, the next M2 may be under consideration as well.
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      12-08-2017, 01:15 AM   #27
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It's hard. I want M to survive and understand why certain decisions are made due to financial and market realities. I'll keep my E39 M5 and Z4 M coupe forever, as these represent (to me) a high point for the M division; well, really, I just enjoy driving them more than anything!

The new M5 is a case in point. It has to compete against the E63 S and there is a extreme minority of buyers for that class of car that want a manual transmission. So we have AWD (well done, IMO given the rear-wheel bias and the 2WD option, and needed given the engine's power output), auto transmission, etc.

Why am I still with BMW M? MTs on the M2, M3/4. I think that is it. When no-one offers MTs, I'll shop around for my one new car and continue to enjoy my M5 and M coupe.
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      12-08-2017, 09:25 AM   #28
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Curious:
How many in the M crowd track there cars? And if not I am at a loss as to where the HP can be enjoyed on public roads. OK when they had 300 HP that was usable for everyday response but now they are up to 600. Maybe I am getting old and I remember how much fun i was driving slow cars fast. A lot of early Porsches and BMWs were not as fast as a 328 sedan is now.
Oops sorry to get the thread off track.

Last edited by impulsE89; 12-08-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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      12-08-2017, 11:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I see. For me, if I weren't going to drive it every day, I probably wouldn't own an M product. So, I can completely understand why you would want more - a car like your M4 was designed around the idea that there would be compromises made in order for it to be practical enough to use as a primary vehicle. If it isn't being used that way, there are definitely better garage queen or weekend cars out there.
Fair point. Although, I was driving my M4 about 10k miles per year without DDing it. I was taking public transport to/from work and driving a lot on the weekends / after work sometimes / long road trips / short road trips. It was a good car in that respect, but that's the issue... it was good at everything but not great at any one thing. On the track it felt heavy and disconnected, on AutoX it was not that nimble, but for casual driving the suspension did not soak the bumps. I had to buy the MP Exhaust to make it sound decent. Having said that, it wasn't necessarily bad at anything (except stock sound).

The point of the thread though is to see if people think:

1) Is M still the king of their niche (jack of all trades type of performance cars) in the future

or

2) People buy more focused cars to replace their M in the future. Basically, replacing their M car with 2, more focused cars, i.e. better daily driver and better sports car
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      12-08-2017, 12:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post
Curious:
How many in the M crowd track there cars? And if not I am at a loss as to where the HP can be enjoyed on public roads. OK when they had 300 HP that was usable for everyday response but now they are up to 600. Maybe I am getting old and I remember how much fun i was driving slow cars fast. A lot of early Porsches and BMWs were not as fast as a 328 sedan is now.
Oops sorry to get the thread off track.
It's a good question I think.

To me, lesser HP/TQ and higher HP/TQ offer different kinds of fun. My e36 M3 had only 240hp (probably less since it's old) and not much TG but it was fun to ring it out and go through the gears without getting crazy fast. But my M4 was fun to have gobs of torque almost instantly when going around a corner or doing a pull. Both handle much differently but also fun on the track. e36s are great auto x cars.
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      12-08-2017, 12:48 PM   #31
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Sure, but those are not necessarily an either/or proposition. And, while I do think comparing those two approaches makes for a reasonable topic of discussion, I don't think your opening post succeeds at sending the message that that is what you intended to discuss.

To me you're conflating two concepts. A person could still very much believe that M produces the best offerings in their target segments, while at the same time they may decide that they would rather own a daily driver that excels at other things (comfort, AWD, cargo space, perhaps) and also have a dedicated sports car for track or weekend duty.

The reason why this is possible is that, if a person approaches the exercise by measuring M against their actual marketplace competitors - that is, those who actually sell cars in the same segments that M does - they may very well put M on top. Many magazine comparisons do just that, for example. They could then, nevertheless, decide that they are ready to pursue vehicles in other segments that M does not cover, still very much being able to acknowledge that M products are great for those who choose not to go that route.

In other words, answering "yes", "no", "maybe" in the poll does note necessarily reveal how the respondent feels about your two points below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
The point of the thread though is to see if people think:

1) Is M still the king of their niche (jack of all trades type of performance cars) in the future

or

2) People buy more focused cars to replace their M in the future. Basically, replacing their M car with 2, more focused cars, i.e. better daily driver and better sports car
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      12-08-2017, 01:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Fair point. Although, I was driving my M4 about 10k miles per year without DDing it. I was taking public transport to/from work and driving a lot on the weekends / after work sometimes / long road trips / short road trips. It was a good car in that respect, but that's the issue... it was good at everything but not great at any one thing. On the track it felt heavy and disconnected, on AutoX it was not that nimble, but for casual driving the suspension did not soak the bumps. I had to buy the MP Exhaust to make it sound decent. Having said that, it wasn't necessarily bad at anything (except stock sound).

The point of the thread though is to see if people think:

1) Is M still the king of their niche (jack of all trades type of performance cars) in the future

or

2) People buy more focused cars to replace their M in the future. Basically, replacing their M car with 2, more focused cars, i.e. better daily driver and better sports car
1. "King" to you can be differ than others. For example some of us buy an M product because how these M cars can serve multiple purposes including myself. For you, you want a purposefully built car and to be frank, none of these M cars is that and you made the right choice by going a GT product

2. I really don't believe M has been trying and pretending to be a focused car in just performance. Their market is really catered to those who are interested in a car that can handle multipurpose (track/DD, track/hauling family, track/outdoor activities/dd...the list can go on and on)

Care to share the spec of the GT3?
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      12-08-2017, 01:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sure, but those are not necessarily an either/or proposition. And, while I do think comparing those two approaches makes for a reasonable topic of discussion, I don't think your opening post succeeds at sending the message that that is what you intended to discuss.

To me you're conflating two concepts. A person could still very much believe that M produces the best offerings in their target segments, while at the same time they may decide that they would rather own a daily driver that excels at other things (comfort, AWD, cargo space, perhaps) and also have a dedicated sports car for track or weekend duty.

The reason why this is possible is that, if a person approaches the exercise by measuring M against their actual marketplace competitors - that is, those who actually sell cars in the same segments that M does - they may very well put M on top. Many magazine comparisons do just that, for example. They could then, nevertheless, decide that they are ready to pursue vehicles in other segments that M does not cover, still very much being able to acknowledge that M products are great for those who choose not to go that route.

In other words, answering "yes", "no", "maybe" in the poll does note necessarily reveal how the respondent feels about your two points below.
The poll is not perfect, I understand that, this is not supposed to be a college thesis. It is more of a litmus test or high level directive. The real value of what I am trying to do is get people talking about why they may or may not pursue M in the future as car enthusiasts. So just answering a poll is only half the battle since there are a lot of nuances to the question, which you have pointed out.

In other words, I don't expect people to be 100% sure they will or will not purchase a next gen M, but getting people to explain their situation and thoughts on the matter may shed some light on how M has affected their enthusiast base with their go-forward strategy

Last edited by hi_officer; 12-08-2017 at 01:16 PM.
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      12-08-2017, 01:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
1. "King" to you can be differ than others. For example some of us buy an M product because how these M cars can serve multiple purposes including myself. For you, you want a purposefully built car and to be frank, none of these M cars is that and you made the right choice by going a GT product

2. I really don't believe M has been trying and pretending to be a focused car in just performance. Their market is really catered to those who are interested in a car that can handle multipurpose (track/DD, track/hauling family, track/outdoor activities/dd...the list can go on and on)

Care to share the spec of the GT3?
You are exactly, right. Line up 9 people who just bought an M3 and ask them why they chose their car and you will get 10 different answers

But that's the reason for the thread, to hear from you guys/gals why or why not you might choose to stay or go with M. I shared my view, not saying it's correct, but you for example may view your car purchases in an entirely different way.

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      12-08-2017, 01:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
You are exactly, right. Line up 9 people who just bought an M3 and ask them why they chose their car and you will get 10 different answers

But that's the reason for the thread, to hear from you guys/gals why or why not you might choose to stay or go with M. I shared my view, not saying it's correct, but you for example may view your car purchases in an entirely different way.

Guards Red, Black LED, Buckets, PCCB, front axle lift, leather interior w/ red stitching.... basically the Geneva press car. Baby on the way, too so should make for an interesting 2018.
You forgot to tell us the most important spec of the car! Is it 7MT or PDK?

I would have to guess it is a 7MT.
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      12-08-2017, 01:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
You forgot to tell us the most important spec of the car! Is it 7MT or PDK?

I would have to guess it is a 7MT.
I think you mean 6MT. 7MT is for non-GT cars

I was 50/50 on the tranny. All of my M cars were stick but one of the negotiation points with my wife is that she could drive it. And since she isn't that good at stick, we decided on PDK. I'm actually excited for the PDK. I've never had dual clutch cars and going down the back straight at COTA popping off downshift is going to be EPIC.
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      12-08-2017, 01:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
The poll is not perfect, I understand that, this is not supposed to be a college thesis. It is more of a litmus test or high level directive.
So very relieved to hear that there is no college thesis in the balance here - I'd hate to see you have to try again next term!

But yeah, as we had already both noted once before, its a discussion forum, so discussion happens. You'd agree that there is nothing wrong with an intellectual discussion, right? Don't get me wrong, I can definitely detect a degree of emotion wrapped up in this too, and that's ok - sometimes cars might feel like the most important thing in the world. I also just noticed you posted this thread closely on the heels of the thread about 26 new M products coming. I wonder if that thread had anything to do with this one. Twenty six is a lot, no doubt. But hey, 26 good things could theoretically be, well, 26x better than one good one, right? On the other hand, for some folks that just makes the whole experience much less, well, you said it best - "special". That's fair.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll enjoy that 991.2 GT3. When's it coming, by the way? Be sure to post up some pics of that bad boy once it arrives.
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      12-08-2017, 01:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
I think you mean 6MT. 7MT is for non-GT cars

I was 50/50 on the tranny. All of my M cars were stick but one of the negotiation points with my wife is that she could drive it. And since she isn't that good at stick, we decided on PDK. I'm actually excited for the PDK. I've never had dual clutch cars and going down the back straight at COTA popping off downshift is going to be EPIC.
Ya 6mt. 7 is the pdk and others.
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      12-08-2017, 01:50 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
So very relieved to hear that there is no college thesis in the balance here - I'd hate to see you have to try again next term!

But yeah, as we had already both noted once before, its a discussion forum, so discussion happens. You'd agree that there is nothing wrong with an intellectual discussion, right? Don't get me wrong, I can definitely detect a degree of emotion wrapped up in this too, and that's ok - sometimes cars might feel like the most important thing in the world. I also just noticed you posted this thread closely on the heels of the thread about 26 new M products coming. I wonder if that thread had anything to do with this one. Twenty six is a lot, no doubt. But hey, 26 good things could theoretically be, well, 26x better than one good one, right? On the other hand, for some folks that just makes the whole experience much less, well, you said it best - "special". That's fair.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll enjoy that 991.2 GT3. When's it coming, by the way? Be sure to post up some pics of that bad boy once it arrives.
You are very much correct. I see the M model report, the increased sales figures, the new M5 w/o a new engine but with AWD, the M4 comp/CS/GTS, X7 behemoth, all the new tech/goodies, etc. and it a bit of a let down for me personally...

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      12-09-2017, 04:02 PM   #40
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I'm a diehard manual guy (personal preference), so based on what ive read, my F82 will be the last modern M i plan to purchase. I am actively looking for a e36 m3 to add to the garage as soon as possible. I hope to add a e30 m3 in next 2-3 years.
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      12-10-2017, 06:50 AM   #41
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      12-10-2017, 12:29 PM   #42
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BMW has done everything to disappoint us really since 2009. But hey, their driving dynamics still hold up well compared to Merc and Audi. All 3 companies really just make super fast, but isolating, autobahn cruisers.

My heart has moved more toward Porsche and cars like the F-type Jag. These cars are more driver-focused than anything from BMW (maybe save for the M240 and M2) and are more exclusive/special.

If you are in the market for a sporty SUV then all you really have are the options from BMW and Porsche. Yes the F-pace is a supposedly good to drive but it's a piece of sh*t in every other day, especially with it's Fisher Price laden plastic interior. It's that bad.
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      12-11-2017, 02:11 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post

The point of the thread though is to see if people think:

1) Is M still the king of their niche (jack of all trades type of performance cars) in the future

or

2) People buy more focused cars to replace their M in the future. Basically, replacing their M car with 2, more focused cars, i.e. better daily driver and better sports car
For me, it comes down to the availability of a 6MT in the next gen.

I'm actually in the opposite .. I have what I consider focused cars.. a daily driver in my E46 330Ci and a weekend / track car in a Honda S2000... I've had both for over 10 years.. My track events are HPDE's for fun.. I don't race a car for trophy's or money... I'm tired of maintaining 2 cars.. but now would rather have 1 car that can merge the best of both of my worlds....

Im buying a 2018 M3...

My understanding of the BMW M3, since the E36 gen, has been that they were a compromise car that can deliver the best of many worlds, while still exceeding what the real competition offered...

Better sports cars in existence well before M3 was ever created in the 911... also better luxury cars from BMW and Mercedes for well over a decade before the M3 was created .. the "sport sedan" is what BMW created... the benchmark of "Grand Touring" is what it became... it is by definition a compromise car..

M X-drive letting you hang out the the tail... hybrid... none of it really matters to me as much as the the ability to have MT... a good MT, (not some piece of crap MT for the sake of just offering it).. that's what makes this a factor for me..

When I look at the future of M cars, it comes back to THIS... if they continue to offer a GOOD MT and stay competitive with its real competitors, like the QV, ATS-V, C63S, RS4/5, etc., I will continue to consider the M3 the best of the best...

If they don't, all bets are off...

Last edited by Iceman1; 12-11-2017 at 02:32 AM.
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      12-11-2017, 08:20 PM   #44
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There may be some magic left somewhere in the dark corners of the building, and just maybe a bean counter will be silenced in the name of competition. The M2 is the only /M car sold today that could capture my $$ as a pure commute, canyon and track toy. The big boys are so far and beyond "overkill" for the tasks they would complete in my stable.

The /M cars of lore demonstrate the purer days of driving with "usable" HP. If I could order a 1M, Z3MC, or Z4MC new from factory today I would hands down be first in line.
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