[theinfamousdrew]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I live in Boston... And I also have had BMWs in the family since I was 13 years old... I also have owned several BMWs and 2 E90 335i prior my F30 335i, and here is my take:

2007 E90 335i RWD - Even my wife said DON'T SELL IT PLEASE, that car is soo much fun to drive!

2008 E90 335i AWD - My wife "That car fells so heavy, no sport feeling, just power"

My point of view, yes AWD can be faster if you are on a track and if you are doing drag race to another 335i RWD, but at end most of us only drives city / highway. Let me tell you, the feeling of a RWD does not compare!

Why do you thing that M3 and M4 are only available on RWD, because the way they drive, not because 0-60.

What is fair... Magazines should be comparing:

335i RWD with Summer ties & stagger rims
vs
335i AWD all seasons tires

On a HOT great summer day... Also, since your are saving that 2K on the xDrive, install MPPK on your 335i RWD and test against the xDrive and let us know the results.

Trust me, with my 335i RWD & MPPK I can beat any xDrive on summer... now in the other hand... Who wants to drag race on a 20F and below weather? On those days I drive my 2012 Civic.

Did you do any suspension work or change the wheels/tires?
I always swap out the suspension for a cupkit or coilovers and swap out the wheels and tires.

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I was 1 post away from getting 400 posts, sooo, disregard this message.

You're an idiot.

[Alpine435i]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

My point of view, yes AWD can be faster if you are on a track...

Nope.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Alpine435i

Nope.

Did you go by the user name "f32" before this one?

[PabloK]

Originally Posted by Alpine435i

Nope.

I dont think your thinking clearly... you seem to believe that the RWD variation is the "fastest" platform in every situation under >10mph.

[Carnut12]

Originally Posted by Alpine435i

Not this again.

Those fixated on magazine-test 0-60 MPH figures will think the xDrive is faster and that's that. Those with practical, real-world knowledge of RWD vs. AWD configurations of the same platform know that the RWD version will always be faster in any test of acceleration if you remove the AWD's <10 MPH traction advantage.

That's really the extent of the argument. Furthermore, anyone thinking the xDrive has a handling advantage should be ignored.

This guy has no clue, if you remove the 10 MPH "Traction" advantage then you have a regular 335i, you just made the solid argument against yourself. Also if you think an xDrive doesn't have a handling advantage in real world driving on actual roads then you have never driven an AWD car.....

If you track a lot I would get RWD, I also think it could be more fun in great conditions. For those reasons my 911 is RWD, but that doesn't mean I would not own an AWD Porsche, I actually might be upgrading to a TT in the next year or 2.

[Carnut12]

Originally Posted by theinfamousdrew

Sorry to create a new thread but all the info I could find was on the suspension.
From what I gathered in those threads was that with a set of coilovers they would ride about the same.

I was wondering if there were any performance advantages in either direction.
With My 996TT, there was certainly a cornering advantage because of the AWD system. It would really pull you through the corners.
Another advantage of the 996TT was the off the line traction, as long as it was dry out, there was zero to little wheel spin.

You just nailed 2 of the biggest advantages, the other is poor weather traction. If I lived in an area that had very little rain and no snow I would not buy xDrive, being in New England it was an easy choice.

[F30AM]

An xDrive pitches and yaws like a dingy with or without Adaptive Suspension. With the latter in situ, there is a bit less of the roll-y poll-y effect. Additionally, there is very little difference in damping and ride stiffness between the comfort and sport modes in an xDrive car as there would be in an sDrive car.

The only thing the xDrive has is better traction than an sDrive car so it accelerates a bit more quickly and also can be used as a snow plough for those who live in challenging weather areas. So what? Not a deal breaker for those who like good handling. For such areas, which truth be told should remain uninhabited anyway, winter tyres will more than suffice to effectively move an sDrive car. In such conditions, you would also need winter tyres for an xDrive car. Oh, an xDrive looks a bit odd due to the extra ride height.

M3/M4/M5/M6 are all sDrives as they need to be true drivers' cars in the M Car tradition.

And, finally, as I need to be diplomatic, I conclude by saying ETTO.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by F30AM

An xDrive pitches and yaws like a dingy with or without Adaptive Suspension. With the latter in situ, there is a bit less of the roll-y poll-y effect. Additionally, there is very little difference in damping and ride stiffness between the comfort and sport modes in an xDrive car as there would be in an sDrive car.

The only thing the xDrive has is better traction than an sDrive car so it accelerates a bit more quickly and also can be used as a snow plough for those who live in challenging weather areas. So what? Not a deal breaker for those who like good handling. For such areas, which truth be told should remain uninhabited anyway, winter tyres will more than suffice to effectively move an sDrive car. In such conditions, you would also need winter tyres for an xDrive car. Oh, an xDrive looks a bit odd due to the extra ride height.

M3/M4/M5/M6 are all sDrives as they need to be true drivers' cars in the M Car tradition.

And, finally, as I need to be diplomatic, I conclude by saying ETTO.

I don't totally disagree with your take, but there are quite a few AWD cars that are considered drivers' cars as well. As I think you said at the end, to each their own.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Carnut12

This guy has no clue, if you remove the 10 MPH "Traction" advantage then you have a regular 335i, you just made the solid argument against yourself. Also if you think an xDrive doesn't have a handling advantage in real world driving on actual roads then you have never driven an AWD car.....

If you track a lot I would get RWD, I also think it could be more fun in great conditions. For those reasons my 911 is RWD, but that doesn't mean I would not own an AWD Porsche, I actually might be upgrading to a TT in the next year or 2.

Not all AWD systems are the same.
AWD can have an advantage on the track and on twisty read world roads.
But BMW's system isn't designed to be performance oriented.
It's more of a daily driving all season design made for the general public who need more traction in bad weather conditions.

BMW doesn't even offer a real sport suspension for the AWD, and if you order the adaptive M you still don't get the correct performance springs and the ride height is not lowered so that you can have a lower center of gravity, which helps handling.

It still remains that the best handling BMW's are RWD, even though the newer AWD system is improved over the older one.

Off the line acceleration goes to the AWD.
RWD simply can't match the traction that AWD has off the line.

In the corners, AWD may be pulling hard, but BMW's system isn't designed like others, so you have to slow down the entrance speed so that you don't plow the turn with bit under steer.
Just cause it may be pulling hard out of the corner doesn't mean the over all speed is faster.

[Carnut12]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Not all AWD systems are the same.
AWD can have an advantage on the track and on twisty read world roads.
But BMW's system isn't designed to be performance oriented.
It's more of a daily driving all season design made for the general public who need more traction in bad weather conditions.

BMW doesn't even offer a real sport suspension for the AWD, and if you order the adaptive M you still don't get the correct performance springs and the ride height is not lowered so that you can have a lower center of gravity, which helps handling.

It still remains that the best handling BMW's are RWD, even though the newer AWD system is improved over the older one.

Off the line acceleration goes to the AWD.
RWD simply can't match the traction that AWD has off the line.

In the corners, AWD may be pulling hard, but BMW's system isn't designed like others, so you have to slow down the entrance speed so that you don't plow the turn with bit under steer.
Just cause it may be pulling hard out of the corner doesn't mean the over all speed is faster.

This is my first AWD BMW, I guess I will find out. I tried the BMW AWD about 6-8 years ago and the Audi blew it away IMO, I do not think it blows it away any longer. It is odd that they do not put the Sport Suspension on the xDrive. So far it is sporty enough for me, I do not mind it being a little higher, it still looks great to me, and it is my DD, I have 2 toys already.

[oceanview]

AWD or RWD? Just not so easy to compare just by those two abbreviations, even on same car platforms.
Every concept has its pros and cons.
Add an LSD to the 335i RWD and it will be different car on the track.
This AWD/RWD is an endless discussion.
One just has to decide what characteristics of either concept he values more for his driving style and his driving environment.

If you look at Motorsports you can clearly see: Track cars have RWD or FWD, Rally cars AWD.

Interesting to see that Le Mans (Audi R18) is a Quattro (AWD) but the front wheels are powered by electric engines just for acceleration purpose (manually on/off switchable).
So Audi uses the known branding, but with a complete different approach.

Also very high power cars (Porsche/Lamborghini/Ferrari) you see more and more on AWD. They just have too much power and torque (manly too much torque causes the traction problem) for RWD.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Carnut12

This is my first AWD BMW, I guess I will find out. I tried the BMW AWD about 6-8 years ago and the Audi blew it away IMO, I do not think it blows it away any longer. It is odd that they do not put the Sport Suspension on the xDrive. So far it is sporty enough for me, I do not mind it being a little higher, it still looks great to me, and it is my DD, I have 2 toys already.

And you will be right, even the experts agree that the 335i xdrive is one of the best entry level sports cars you can get for your money when all is considered (interior, acceleration, handling, braking, cornering etc)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._sport_sedans/

You have to be very dismissive about some of the comments you see here. A lot of us try to be experts but once in a while it helps to throw in a doss of what the real experts have to say about the same subject.

Here is the rwd vs the s4
http://wot.motortrend.com/audi-s4-an...ad-217317.html

It's safe to say even after over analyzing the ride height and lack of sports suspension, you still remain with one of the best entry level luxury sports sedans in the segment in the 335i xdrive

[Carnut12]

Originally Posted by 300hp

And you will be right, even the experts agree that the 335i xdrive is one of the best entry level sports cars you can get for your money when all is considered (interior, acceleration, handling, braking, cornering etc)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._sport_sedans/

You have to be very dismissive about some of the comments you see here. A lot of us try to be experts but once in a while it helps to throw in a doss of what the real experts have to say about the same subject.

Here is the rwd vs the s4
http://wot.motortrend.com/audi-s4-an...ad-217317.html

It's safe to say even after over analyzing the ride height and lack of sports suspension, you still remain with one of the best entry level luxury sports sedans in the segment in the 335i xdrive

Well Said, great points!!!

[BimmerBoomer]

I'm very impressed with the composure of the chassis of the 435i xDrive with MPPK under hard acceleration. Anyone considering a more serious tune should factor in the effect of over 420 foot pounds of peak torque on a RWD car, especially one with no LSD. Having been there and done that with my 2007 335i coupe with Dinan stage 2 I'm very comfortable with choosing the xDrive.

But I really chose it because I need a little extra ground clearance and AWD for my winter wildlife photography, which sends me down less well maintained roads in snow and ice on a regular basis. Presumably BMW will have the high torque RWD thing sorted on the F80 and F82. I'm looking forward to driving them, and I wouldn't rule out being bitten by the M3 bug a fourth time.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

I'm very impressed with the composure of the chassis of the 435i xDrive with MPPK under hard acceleration. Anyone considering a more serious tune should factor in the effect of over 420 foot pounds of peak torque on a RWD car, especially one with no LSD. Having been there and done that with my 2007 335i coupe with Dinan stage 2 I'm very comfortable with choosing the xDrive.

But I really chose it because I need a little extra ground clearance and AWD for my winter wildlife photography, which sends me down less well maintained roads in snow and ice on a regular basis. Presumably BMW will have the high torque RWD thing sorted on the F80 and F82. I'm looking forward to driving them, and I wouldn't rule out being bitten by the M3 bug a fourth time.

After seeing the m3/4 yesterday at the auto show I don't see how you can avoid the bug, good luck

[theinfamousdrew]

So I ended up buying a xDrive anyways.
Yesterday I put a set of H&R springs on it and WOW what a difference.
Much better now.



Here are a few shots right after I was finished.

Front Before


Front After







Rear Before


Rear After

[Halsifer]

Originally Posted by theinfamousdrew

So I ended up buying a xDrive anyways.
Yesterday I put a set of H&R springs on it and WOW what a difference.
Much better now.

Congratulations! I went with xDrive as well even though I'm in California. I wanted the AWD drive grip (got used to quattro). Plus, a 60-40 default power spilt is good enough for me. Hope you enjoy your car! And wow, that looks really good.

Which set of H&R springs did you buy? Did you have the adaptive suspension? If not, is there less body roll?

[theinfamousdrew]

Originally Posted by Halsifer

Congratulations! I went with xDrive as well even though I'm in California. I wanted the AWD drive grip (got used to quattro). Plus, a 60-40 default power spilt is good enough for me. Hope you enjoy your car! And wow, that looks really good.

Which set of H&R springs did you buy? Did you have the adaptive suspension? If not, is there less body roll?

There is only one set for the xDrive available from H&R.
No I dont and this cut down most of the body roll. Next will possible be a set of sway bars.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Carnut12

This is my first AWD BMW, I guess I will find out. I tried the BMW AWD about 6-8 years ago and the Audi blew it away IMO, I do not think it blows it away any longer. It is odd that they do not put the Sport Suspension on the xDrive. So far it is sporty enough for me, I do not mind it being a little higher, it still looks great to me, and it is my DD, I have 2 toys already.

Yes, BMW has improved it's AWD and it has more performance bias than before.
Audi has also advanced it's quattro system.
A few years back they opted to to make the front to rear split more rear biased at 60/40 instead of 50/50. That helped to lessen some of the under steer.
They also moved the engine farther back so that the majority of it's mass is behind the front axle center line. That too helped it's handling.

It would be cool if BMW created and offered a true sport suspension for it's
X drive cars.
Still, there is the aftermarket.

If you haven't read this, check it out:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

The big surprise is the Cadillac's ride and handling, clearly beating all the cars in the test including the BMW and Audi.
The American company has done their homework in regards to ride and handling especially with it's AWD.

The S4 and 335xi are really close in over all performance with handling going to the S4.
Interestingly the Caddy had all season tires and still had the best handling.

BMW's newest X drive is clearly improved over the old one, but still not as good as the Audi quattro.
And Cadillac outdid them both in terms of AWD handling.

Over all, can't go wrong with either the S4 or 335Xi for an AWD.
In the real world where we aren't racing for fastest times where the nth degree of performance variance can give a car the win, most drivers will be very satisfied with the level of handling performance from the X drive or from RWD.
Even the slightly lighter and better handing 328i vs the 335i goes mostly unnoticed in daily driving and fun back road excursions.

The 335Xi seems to only be let down by BMW not offering a full sport suspension from the factory.
I can think of no reason as to why BMW chose to do that.
If they want to better compete with Audi on AWD, then they need to rethink their approach.
If the X drive were offered with a full sport suspension, drivers like me would seriously consider it.
Offer an LSD for both X drive and RWD from the factory and there's even more performance weaponry by which to battle Audi.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by theinfamousdrew

So I ended up buying a xDrive anyways.
Yesterday I put a set of H&R springs on it and WOW what a difference.
Much better now.



Here are a few shots right after I was finished.

Front Before

NICELY done!

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by theinfamousdrew

So I ended up buying a xDrive anyways.
Yesterday I put a set of H&R springs on it and WOW what a difference.
Much better now.

Looks great, but this is one of the worst mods you can do to an xDrive car. The stock struts are not designed for these shorter springs, hence you will find the ride eventually becomes more bouncy and unsettled. You will also find that the suspension bottoms out on abrupt elevation changes (potholes) and makes a loud thump, which is very concerning. Easy fix is too good to be true. But yes, it looks sweet!


Coilovers exist for a reason. A pretty good one too.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by theinfamousdrew

There is only one set for the xDrive available from H&R.
No I dont and this cut down most of the body roll. Next will possible be a set of sway bars.

Did you get new dampers to match the new springs?

I think it would be great to have the adaptive M dampers along with the lower and firmer springs. That's a better match to compliment each other.
Firmer and lower springs can overwhelm the stock suspension dampers and cause them to fail quicker.
The stock suspension dampers don't have the proper valving to properly dampen those springs.

Before sway bars get the proper dampers.
Sway bars are for fine tuning the over all suspension.
You need to get the major components right first.

I have adaptive M dampers on my 335i Msport, and going from comfort/normal to sport noticeably affects body roll by controlling it better.
There is less sway due to the dampers stronger control over the springs compression and rebound.