[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Yeah, so what did we learn from someone's mistake?

If you're going to track a car, don't heavily modify it without the proper safety mods to support it, or just get a track ready car like the camaro, as GM actually will warranty their camaro if you track it without mods and it breaks on you.

Camaros are so slow though...!

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Camaros are so slow though...!

Pshh!

The 2017 Camaro SS 1LE is going to be an absolute beast! The 2016 Camaro SS can hold its own against a F82 M4.

If I start tracking even more, I'm considering picking up a C6 Corvette with the Z51 package. Everything about it (with the exception of replacement tires) is less expensive compared to even an F30 335i.

Although the Helm Factory Service manuals for GM don't seem to be inexpensive. They are, however, very well written manuals.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by PappyVR4

Using the pejorative, kid, as a slight to try and establish yourself as better? Nice try. My reading comprehension is quite good. You're just not as eloquent as you think. By the way, time on some internet forum has zero bearing on experience or knowledge.

Completely false. They care very much as to the reasons why. Knowing why helps them sell more.

Of course. However, that's not what you said. You didn't state that BMW, as a company, cared mostly abouy new car sales. You wrote people were only "real BMW drivers" if they bought new. Your claims were absurd.

Who gives a crap what your parents owned/drove? And you were calling me kid?

I'm actually quite happy with my life. I'm at the intersection of the wealth, happiness, and job satisfaction ven diagram: so I dont need your condicending life recommendations, thank you.

Don't have to like it, just had to eat it, which you did.

Earlier you stated the real RWD sport sedan experience. Well, what about those who have X Drive, are they faking it?

You may prefer RWD, but not everyone, so you just made a subjective characterization. Funny, me doing this is exactly what got your panties in a wad.

Yes, you're a kid, kids sound more idealistic as you do; that's great. Think what you want about what's fair, but do your own research on the topic son, BMW doesn't care as much for used owners as new; two differing demographics. If you aren't intelligent enough to know this, then this is why you feel condescended to.

Again, you're new here and nothing you're saying isn't drivel that others have spewed on this forum before to the same results as you have found; nothing.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by drive335

I bought new and disagree. Many simply don't see the point in taking the initial depreciation hit. It doesn't matter whether BMW likes used car owners more than new ones. Used car owners are still just that, owners.

What if I bought a new car, drove it around the block, and sold it back to the dealer? The next person wouldn't be a real owner? Would I have been a real owner for those brief minutes?

So just after admitting that you don't know if everyone bought new or used, you're making up imaginary correlations. Again. Sweet.

I half agree on this. There's no such thing as a "right" to a certain brand of car, but I do think it's infinitely more rewarding to buy your own car instead of having parents buy it for you or leasing. That doesn't mean that the people that do that should find another car.

Depreciation? And that means what? This was covered months back in another thread, but this argument is just not accurate.

A car is a tool that has utility, this utility is marginal, but greater when the car is new as tech and other advancements improve on a set annual cycle. This is one reason why the value decreases yearly; the other factor is usage.

So, the "rich people", as you call them's smart move is to always lease. Leasing takes less risk and keeps cash flow high. However, if you can afford to buy it with no impact to your level of risk acceptance, then you can do so. Being wealthy only gives you more choice, which one you choose, is up to you.

Depreciation is also not a factor at all unless your car is totaled and you're upside down or have a gap, or must sale before its paid off.

The only factor again is what YOU can afford. If I can afford to set cash on fire in my fireplace, then I just can; if you can't, you just can't. This doesn't make one right or wrong, just depends on one's perspective.

[donkey]

Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed
She was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb
In the shape of an "L" on her forehead
Well the years start coming and they don't stop coming
Fed to the rules and I hit the ground running
Didn't make sense not to live for fun
Your brain gets smart but your head gets dumb
So much to do, so much to see
So what's wrong with taking the back streets?
You'll never know if you don't go
You'll never shine if you don't glow
Hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid
And all that glitters is gold
Only shooting stars break the mold
It's a cool place and they say it gets colder
You're bundled up now, wait till you get older
But the meteor men beg to differ
Judging by the hole in the satellite picture
The ice we skate is getting pretty thin
The water's getting warm so you might as well swim
My world's on fire, how about yours?
That's the way I like it and I never get bored
Hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid
All that glitters is gold
Only shooting stars break the mold
Hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star, get the show, on get paid
And all that glitters is gold
Only shooting stars
Somebody once asked could I spare some change for gas?
I need to get myself away from this place
I said yep what a concept
I could use a little fuel myself
And we could all use a little change
Well, the years start coming and they don't stop coming
Fed to the rules and I hit the ground running
Didn't make sense not to live for fun
Your brain gets smart but your head gets dumb
So much to do, so much to see
So what's wrong with taking the back streets?
You'll never know if you don't go (go!)
You'll never shine if you don't glow
Hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid
And all that glitters is gold
Only shooting stars break the mold
And all that glitters is gold
Only shooting stars break the mold

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by drive335

Depreciation - You're right in that the first owner doesn't feel the hit as much, but the second owner does gain from it.

"Rich people" - I never referred to "rich people". I do agree that most will lease and that it can often be a smart move depending on how long you intend to keep the car.

Look Drive, I don't want to argue with you, your posts have been good.

There is a lot of tone lost in writing, and maybe it was the other guy who said something about what rich people do.

There's also nothing wrong with buying a car used. Nothing is wrong with someone who is a car guy and stretches to buy a BMW; heck, why the f#ck not? You only live once so he should have at it. Wish everyone could enjoy the feeling of owning a BMW or a Porsche, the manufacturers do what they can to keep the barrier to entry high for the masses, while balancing that with keeping it low enough for their target markets.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Well, you generally see less douchebaggery and tomfoolery on the Porsche forums.

The reason is very simple. The barrier to entry is pretty high.

Most Porsche owners are well educated and have high income careers... and commensurately higher IQs.

With used 3 Series pricing, almost any imbecile can get into one of these cars.

While the Porsche forum may be as you say, it might be for different reasons than you state. First, there is not necessarily a correlation between wealth and IQ. Second, even if there were a correlation between the two, it is probably not true that higher IQ people are less douchbaggerish or tomfoolery enhanced. I know plenty of people who are smart yet possess these traits/skills.

It may be that Porsche drivers tend to be older than 3er drivers and that difference makes the Porsche forum seem more mature. 911 drivers tend to be 45+ and Boxster drivers are 35+. 3er drivers are from 18 to 80. Now you can tell me that there is no correlation between age and maturity and I'd have to agree. I'm older and I say stupid sh*t all the time.

In the meantime, I wonder what's happening with the OP and his blown N20?

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

While the Porsche forum may be as you say, it might be for different reasons than you state. First, there is not necessarily a correlation between wealth and IQ. Second, even if there were a correlation between the two, it is probably not true that higher IQ people are less douchbaggerish or tomfoolery enhanced. I know plenty of people who are smart yet possess these traits/skills.

It may be that Porsche drivers tend to be older than 3er drivers and that difference makes the Porsche forum seem more mature. 911 drivers tend to be 45+ and Boxster drivers are 35+. 3er drivers are from 18 to 80. Now you can tell me that there is no correlation between age and maturity and I'd have to agree. I'm older and I say stupid sh*t all the time.

In the meantime, I wonder what's happening with the OP and his blown N20?

I enjoy you and Polo's posts about the best as any; each of you are in my top 10. The "I'm older and I say stupid sh*t all the time" was just classic!

Think Polo is being taken a bit out of context. Yes, the Porsche forums are more mature because they're older, but the question is "were these Porsche guys the same douchebags when they were young as some on the 3 series forum?" No way to tell, but it's interesting to ponder for a few seconds.

There may not be a correlation between IQ and wealth, (control for pro athletes and entertainers), but there is a correlation between IQ, education, and social class.

There are many jobs that pay a lot of money ($75K-$120K), that have little to no job prestige. For the jobs that have high job prestige, these people tend to purchase more European cars like the 911.

For those of us in Finance/Econ, the German cars are almost a requirement. I hate this, as it lends to more badge whores, but it just happens. Those with lots of cash go Italian, or British.

[PappyVR4]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

...

Earlier you stated the real RWD sport sedan experience. Well, what about those who have X Drive, are they faking it?

Traditionally, yes. BMW was for RWD enthusiasts. Audi was for AWD people. But if you'll note, I did also include "RWD-biased" in there too, as AWD BMWs become more common.

Yes, you're a kid, kids sound more idealistic as you do; that's great. Think what you want about what's fair, but do your own research on the topic son, BMW doesn't care as much for used owners as new; two differing demographics. If you aren't intelligent enough to know this, then this is why you feel condescended to.

It's not about being idealistic. I'm far from that. It's about not being elitist and myopic. Nor is this about "what's fair". When did I mention anything about fairness? Nor is this about BMW being less interested in used car sales. YOU are the one who said only new buyers were true BMW drivers. By the way though, BMW NA takes great care in fostering an enthusiast community which takes care of old BMWs.

Again, you're new here and nothing you're saying isn't drivel that others have spewed on this forum before to the same results as you have found; nothing.

I'm new here? Yes. But you may want to look in the mirror with that. Your massive post count only says you spend A LOT of time on the Internet. It doesn't mean much beyond that.

Ive been in the BMW community for quite a long time. It's been filled with wonderful people, people who truly love cars and enthusiasts. Your smug attitude is a boil on the community that needs to be lanced.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

I enjoy you and Polo's posts about the best as any; each of you are in my top 10. The "I'm older and I say stupid sh*t all the time" was just classic!

Think Polo is being taken a bit out of context. Yes, the Porsche forums are more mature because they're older, but the question is "were these Porsche guys the same douchebags when they were young as some on the 3 series forum?" No way to tell, but it's interesting to ponder for a few seconds.

There may not be a correlation between IQ and wealth, (control for pro athletes and entertainers), but there is a correlation between IQ, education, and social class.

There are many jobs that pay a lot of money ($75K-$120K), that have little to no job prestige. For the jobs that have high job prestige, these people tend to purchase more European cars like the 911.

For those of us in Finance/Econ, the German cars are almost a requirement. I hate this, as it lends to more badge whores, but it just happens. Those with lots of cash go Italian, or British.

Fact.

I get that I come off as coarse.

In my other career, there can be absolutely no tolerance for incompetence. (To be clear there's a difference between incompetence and inexperience). We're absolutely brutal on those that display such characteristics, and rightfully so because people die as a result of incompetence. For example, the day that you see one of your junior leaders set up a Polish ambush where he emplaces his subordinates on opposing sides of road (which will undoubtedly results in fratricide) in a training environment is the day he becomes the joke of the entire organization and will never lead again. Such foundational travesties are usually a sign or the result of weak minds.

Based on my observations, these weak minds usually translate or are correlated to weak life accomplishments as well as weak civilian careers.

... and it all starts with a pretty low IQ.

[jgoens]

This thread is an absolute insane asylum for imbeciles. Love it!

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Like this car..

Chris Bangle design?

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by lijiahua790

cost me 7500 to get a used engine and installed.

I'm super late to the party but Damn. There's a 26k mile n20 near me for $2400. GL man.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by jgoens

This thread is an absolute insane asylum for imbeciles. Love it!

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by jgoens

This thread is an absolute insane asylum for imbeciles. Love it!

......and we are only talking about a blown N20 4-banger. How lit up would this thread be if we were talking about a real engine with a proper amount of cylinders?

[Polo08816]

[NotQuickEnough]

Why so much anger polo? Got spanked by a JB4 recently? :P

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

For example, the day that you see one of your junior leaders set up a Polish ambush where he emplaces his subordinates on opposing sides of road (which will undoubtedly results in fratricide) in a training environment is the day he becomes the joke of the entire organization and will never lead again.

Do you have your guys watch the movie Ronin to pick that up

IIRC there's a scene where a guy pretending to be experienced lays out his ambush plan by putting people on both sides of the road. DeNiro (I think it was his character) deduces from that plan that the guy is a fraud and lays into him.

[chiefneil]

Re: Porsche forums. I hung out on the Cayman forum for a while a few years back when I was debating between F30 vs Cayman. The guys over there are much less HP-obsessed than the crowd on BMW forums. Also much less street racing obsessed. I don't think I ever saw the phrase "I challenged him" on the Cayman forum but it pops up once a week on the BMW forums I follow.

I was actually a bit surprised that every time the question of Cayman vs Cayman S came up, most people said to get the base Cayman if you're just tooling around on the street going to work and such. Here on the BMW forums you'll frequently see people saying to add JB4, upgrade from 320 to 328 to 335, etc.

It's a different crowd for sure. The diversity on this forum definitely makes it more entertaining though. I definitely wouldn't want the modders and hp-junkies to leave as that seems to be a big part of the BMW culture (even if it's not my thing personally).

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

Re: Porsche forums. I hung out on the Cayman forum for a while a few years back when I was debating between F30 vs Cayman. The guys over there are much less HP-obsessed than the crowd on BMW forums. Also much less street racing obsessed. I don't think I ever saw the phrase "I challenged him" on the Cayman forum but it pops up once a week on the BMW forums I follow.

I was actually a bit surprised that every time the question of Cayman vs Cayman S came up, most people said to get the base Cayman if you're just tooling around on the street going to work and such. Here on the BMW forums you'll frequently see people saying to add JB4, upgrade from 320 to 328 to 335, etc.

It's a different crowd for sure. The diversity on this forum definitely makes it more entertaining though. I definitely wouldn't want the modders and hp-junkies to leave as that seems to be a big part of the BMW culture (even if it's not my thing personally).

You know what I think part of it is, and not to get back into IQ's and classes, it's the forums themselves that fuel the culture. When I first got into a BMW a few years ago I bought a 335 because I wanted a quick car. I had no idea about mods or these cars viewed as street racer cars. I had never even heard of a JB4 or thought about coding. But after reading the forums interest became stronger.
I had always been into the detailing aspect of cars and basic work on them but after seeing what people were doing it was like, "why not." And I love it! It's added a whole new hobby to car ownership and I have had many great conversations with not only people on the forums but on the street as well.

I think the bottom line is a person who owns a BMW and does not go on forums is much less likely to mod his car in any way. I know several guys who have not been on forums and are happy with their car just as it came from the factory.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by NotQuickEnough

Why so much anger polo? Got spanked by a JB4 recently? :P

I don't street race so it doesn't matter. Also, straight line racing is of little interest to me as it requires relatively little driver skill to compared to actual tracking or autox.

If I "got spanked" at the track, it was largely due to driver ability and not a result of a tune or modification.

I'm adult enough to admit that the other person is the better driver, look at his/her strengths, and find areas that need improvement on my end.

Originally Posted by chiefneil

Do you have your guys watch the movie Ronin to pick that up

IIRC there's a scene where a guy pretending to be experienced lays out his ambush plan by putting people on both sides of the road. DeNiro (I think it was his character) deduces from that plan that the guy is a fraud and lays into him.

That scene is a classic.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I don't street race so it doesn't matter. Also, straight line racing is of little interest to me as it requires relatively little driver skill to compared to actual tracking or autox.

Straight line racing is just a dick measuring contest. Are you really saying you don't involve yourself in penis measuring? Really Polo? Really?