[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by phc77

GOOD

An interesting thread with the 3 way active setup.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...review.432510/

This is the way my system is heading . Just working through to make sure no issues with enabling MOST via coding as have base audio /ATM / ASD. Trade off will having to recode when car goes to dealer and has software resets and updates.
3 way active front , Passive rear doors, Trunk sub.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

This is the way my system is heading . Just working through to make sure no issues with enabling MOST via coding as have base audio /ATM / ASD. Trade off will having to recode when car goes to dealer and has software resets and updates.
3 way active front , Passive rear doors, Trunk sub.

Why go through the trouble of enabling MOST and running the MOST fiber optic cables from the stock headunit to the rear when you can more easily run a set of RCA cables (front and rear), to the DSP amp in the rear and go from there?

[NealfromNZ]

My last BMW had the differential audio outputs with the first stage of that build . Sonically it was mediocre as a source.

I modded the module to bypass the stage and took audio feeds straight from the dc blocking capictors after op amps which gained a noticeable increase in sound quality . However it was average as a source.

Went to the next stage a built a digital media centre . Had a digital toslink input straight into DSP , controlled via head unit. Supported hi res audio files up to 192k / 24 bit.

Even with standard 16 bit audio the sound was superior to modded until and avoided one extra analogue stage in the audio chain. System was virtually silent at full volume. Sound stage was also better defined.

So if your running BMW hifi into a dsp then the process is digital first , converted to analog, sent over RCA , resampled by dsp back into digital , processed , converted back to analog and then amplified.

If you use Most native , you go MOST digital multi channel straight to DSP it’s then processed and then goes analog to amplifier stage. ( Mobridge Amp )

Alternatively if going match path using Most digital it does the following. Most to Most adaptor ( SMDI25 ) digital resample into Toslink stereo PCM , PCM stream to Match dsp , processed and converted to analog for amplifier stage


I think you’ll find that if you add a Most to Toslink adaptor into your DSP10 you’ll take the audio to the next level.

[Jvac]

I miss the days when car audio systems were not so complicated lol.
The level of expertise and information found in this thread is outstanding. Thanks to all who have contributed.
Sorry for the detour but I'm wondering if anyone has opinions or experiences with the hk premium system, aka logic7. I'm trying to find out what improvements are available to make this system as good as can be without major investments. I've tried my hand at tuning via the 7 band eq but I don't think it's effective enough. Currently running with everything set to flat. To sum up: you guys say oem speaker quality isn't the problem. Hk amp lacks good signal processing but is integral to the car's most network and can't be removed. Adding a better amp/dsp/eq is quite costly. I've already installed a trunk sub & amp via the technic add-a-sub and line out controller. The low end punch is great now, but I am looking to improve the overall quality across a wide range of genres. Thoughts are : 1 line doors/floors and trunk with sound dampening to reduce road noise and distortion from bare metal car frame. 2- install proper crossovers in the doors, Biilfitz style. Does anyone know if that would be as helpful on the L7 system as it is on the hifi? It seems like most of the work done here is on the lower end systems and I'm sure there are differences between the two. 3-open to any other suggestions in the direction of signal processing /shaping.
Thanks!

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Jvac

I've tried my hand at tuning via the 7 band eq but I don't think it's effective enough.

It's the weakest aspect of the system. Anything less than 15 bands of EQ has been obsolete for 20 years. Hand tuning is OK if you know what you're doing, but even us audio professionals who do don't rely on just our ears. Get this app for your phone, use it to do as good a job as you can reducing the height of response peaks and the depth of response valleys. Use Spectrum Analyzer, 1 octave bands, C weighting, slow weighting. There's no point in using 1/3 octave bands with only 7 bands of EQ.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....audioanalyzer

As for a crossover, no audio system worth listening to doesn't use them, be it in a car, a living room or a stadium.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

I think you’ll find that if you add a Most to Toslink adaptor into your DSP10 you’ll take the audio to the next level.

That is what the SDMI25 does and what I have installed as part of my system….

On a related note, I did play around with coding different radio modes to see if there were any noticeable sound differences in the audio setting. The HiFi setting was noticeably a lower volume source than the stock HK setting. Good news is that all sound settings will output via the MOST output as setting the output type (i.e. MOST, high level for speakers, etc) is a separate setting and the iDrive HK EQ menu can also be used with any sound setting based on my brief testing. So what I think this means is that regardless of radio type you have in your BMW, you can still code on the 7-band EQ that is only used with the HK or BO radios from the factory.

A pic of the different options are below from Bimmercode (the check mark is the stock HK setting):

[Jvac]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's the weakest aspect of the system. Anything less than 15 bands of EQ has been obsolete for 20 years. Hand tuning is OK if you know what you're doing, but even us audio professionals who do don't rely on just our ears. Get this app for your phone, use it to do as good a job as you can reducing the height of response peaks and the depth of response valleys. Use Spectrum Analyzer, 1 octave bands, C weighting, slow weighting. There's no point in using 1/3 octave bands with only 7 bands of EQ.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....audioanalyzer

As for a crossover, no audio system worth listening to doesn't use them, be it in a car, a living room or a stadium.

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a shot

[phc77]

I have a few doubts.
After removing the trunk panel, I'm a little lost.
It seems that the wiring has changed. I need help identifying these wires. I don't see any MOST 25 fiber optics (green wires).
My wiring looks like this:
https://www.audiokit.fi/kirjoitus/bm...-audio-upgrade

[jmciver]

That is because BMW no longer uses the MOST fiber optic interface on its current models. According to your profile, you have a G-series car (a G22?). BMW last used the MOST interface on the F-series cars, so this is not applicable to your setup. Most of the newer G-series cars use a Receiver Audio Module (RAM) which requires a different interface in order to add an after market amp…

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by phc77

I'm a little lost.

For sure. You should be here: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/index.php

[phc77]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

For sure. You should be here: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/index.php

Maybe for the wiring, but it's very poor there. Unlike here, we are talking about best sound quality. I want to be in, especially since the UP 10 is still an option even without the SDMI25.

[phc77]

Originally Posted by jmciver

That is because BMW no longer uses the MOST fiber optic interface on its current models. According to your profile, you have a G-series car (a G22?).

A G22, yes and there's no more optical MOST bus in ID7.
Signal comes via Ethernet from MGU (Media Graphics Unit aka head unit).
Also RAM and Booster amps can't be replaced anymore so Match UP 10DSP is
installed in parellel to stock amps with plug&play harness. So.

[jmciver]

So I have made less progress than I would have liked with the 3-way active part of the install, but some progress nonetheless. Below are some pics of adding the tweeter wiring inside the passenger side door….

After disconnecting the door plug from the car, you need to detach the harness from the outer shell of the door plug. There are several open spots to use in this harness, but I chose to go with the “4-pin” block where the arrow is in the first pic. Two of those pins are already used for the existing factory speaker wiring, so adding the new wiring for the tweeter to the other two open spots made sense. It was almost as if BMW had original plans for a fully active system in the first place…

For the actual tweeter wiring inside the door, instead of actually building a new speaker wire pair, with new pins (2 male and 2 female), a two pin plug, and wiring, I decided to salvage a factory speaker wire from a cheap, used door harness off eBay. Not only did I get a fully assembled speaker wire with all required pins and plugs, it was already color coded and at the proper length. The donor door harness also allowed me to figure out how to take it apart without potentionally breaking the door plug in my car - I am glad I did this .

Using a zip tie, I then routed the “new” tweeter wiring into the door, using the factory wiring routing path (including using the factory cloth Tesa tape to prevent rattles), and inserted the pins into the door plug harness for a factory fit and integration. Using the used factory donor door harness was not only very convenient, but very cost effective as buying all the necessary pins and plugs to make a new speaker wire is not as cheap as you might think. If you decide to go the factory door harness donor route, be sure to look for rear door harnesses as the factory speaker wiring you need is the same, but the used rear door harnesses are typically much cheaper than the front door harnessess (should be able to get a single used door harness for less than $20 or so)…

[phc77]

Originally Posted by jmciver

So I have made less progress than I would have liked with the 3-way active part of the install, but some progress nonetheless. Below are some pics of adding the tweeter wiring inside the passenger side door….

Well done !
Before attaching the tweeters in the door post, listen to them placed on the dashboard in the axis. Just for fun.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by phc77

Well done !
Before attaching the tweeters in the door post, listen to them placed on the dashboard in the axis. Just for fun.

Haha, too late for that (at least on the passenger side) …. Once I figured out how to mount the new tweeter in the factory spot, I wanted to leave it there.

The diameter of the new tweeter is essentially identical to the stock ones, but there is no “lip” for the new tweeter to snap into the factory location. So I ended up adding some foam to the outer edge to allow for a press fit. Between the foam I added and the factory foam backing piece, I am not concerned with the tweeter going anywhere.

I also got the pin wiring for the tweeter on the inside of the car at the passenger door. A bit of a PITA, but not that bad…

[NealfromNZ]

Love the factory wiring approach with pins and connectors , very tidy. I think the f10 had active front tweeters hence the 4 pin speaker area. Can you believe that the e46 /e39 had three way speaker wiring with a nice thick gauge for mid bass. Certainly trying every measure to cut down weight and cost on Fxx platforms.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by phc77

Well done !
Before attaching the tweeters in the door post, listen to them placed on the dashboard in the axis. Just for fun.

Had ribbon tweeters in that position before.Lots of detail but Windscreen glass comes into play which doesn’t produce best results. Custom A pillar gives better imaging if going down this road. Just a thought IMHO.

[phc77]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Had ribbon tweeters in that position before.Lots of detail but Windscreen glass comes into play which doesn’t produce best results. Custom A pillar gives better imaging if going down this road. Just a thought IMHO.

Having the choice of the tweeter location is a must !
You are right, they should not be laid flat.
Custom A-pillars are one of the best ways and pods also but, unfortunetly they are not always very graceful.
Regardless, it is possible to take the soundstage to another level just by moving the tweeter and placing it more on axis.

[phc77]

Originally Posted by jmciver

...adding some foam to the outer edge to allow for a press fit. Between the foam I added and the factory foam backing piece, I am not concerned with the tweeter going anywhere.

Add of a bit of moss on the tweeter outer edge is clean and looks very nice.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Love the factory wiring approach with pins and connectors , very tidy. I think the f10 had active front tweeters hence the 4 pin speaker area. Can you believe that the e46 /e39 had three way speaker wiring with a nice thick gauge for mid bass. Certainly trying every measure to cut down weight and cost on Fxx platforms.

I think the factory wiring approach is pretty much the only option if you have the factory all-around camera option, as I do. Based on the door plug design, both on the car side and door side, there is really no way to route new speaker wiring without some very delicate, and possibly destructive, drilling in the two factory plugs.

But the factory plugs are modular so adding/removing new pins/wiring is really not that hard. Typically the “hard” part is taking things apart to actually get to the harness plug to make the necessary additions….

[Billfitz]

The wiring problem is reason enough to use a good passive crossover between the mids and tweeters rather than separately amplifying them. The advantages that bi-amping with an active crossover offer aren't of much use in a car. I don't even bother with it in my home theater.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The wiring problem is reason enough to use a good passive crossover between the mids and tweeters rather than separately amplifying them. The advantages that bi-amping with an active crossover offer aren't of much use in a car. I don't even bother with it in my home theater.

Yeah, but where is the fun in that. The “rewiring” is part of the adventure in DIY…. That said, I plan to try the passive crossover experiment, using your crossover design, in my wife’s ‘19 X3, which came with the factory HiFi system. I am looking forward to those results…