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      09-26-2013, 10:06 AM   #1
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F30 328i Important Questions

Hey!

I have been planning a 3-series from quite a while and finally the time is nearing. I'm strongly considering two variants that is the 320d SportLine and the 328i SportLine. Both are top of the line variants and the 320d SportLine costs around $69,000 with the Power Performance Kit and the 328i costs $75,000 on the road. The equipment level in both the cars are more or les exactly the same. The fuel scene here in India is opposite as compared to the United States. The Petrol costs higher than the diesel and the availability of good quality Petrol is rare. Usually it's 89 RON Petrol all over.

Here are my questions;

- How would the 320d with the Power Performance Kit and Performance Exhaust perform against the stock 328i running on 89 RON petrol?

- The claimed figure of the 328i to 100 by the company is 6.1 secs which is tested on 98 RON Petrol. By how much will it deteriorate if 89 RON Petrol is used?

- Can the 328i go into limp mode with regular use of 89 RON fuel ?

Thanks in advance.
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      09-26-2013, 03:46 PM   #2
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$75k???!!! I would go for a used GT-R for that money. Now, I don't feel too bed live in California
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      09-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #3
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89 RON? I would never run gasoline in the 328i engine with such a low octane rating. You're talking a turbo engine with relatively high compression. The only way 89 RON would work is if you kept the revs super-low. At that point, you might as well have a diesel. The U.S. owners manual says minimum 89 AKI which is like 93-94 RON. 89 RON is about 84-85 AKI which we can't even get in the U.S. Well, not in California anyway.

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      09-26-2013, 05:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12
Hey!

I have been planning a 3-series from quite a while and finally the time is nearing. I'm strongly considering two variants that is the 320d SportLine and the 328i SportLine. Both are top of the line variants and the 320d SportLine costs around $69,000 with the Power Performance Kit and the 328i costs $75,000 on the road. The equipment level in both the cars are more or les exactly the same. The fuel scene here in India is opposite as compared to the United States. The Petrol costs higher than the diesel and the availability of good quality Petrol is rare. Usually it's 89 RON Petrol all over.

Here are my questions;

- How would the 320d with the Power Performance Kit and Performance Exhaust perform against the stock 328i running on 89 RON petrol?

- The claimed figure of the 328i to 100 by the company is 6.1 secs which is tested on 98 RON Petrol. By how much will it deteriorate if 89 RON Petrol is used?

- Can the 328i go into limp mode with regular use of 89 RON fuel ?

Thanks in advance.
Um, I dunno what "US" scene you're talking a out but the one I live in, petrol is almost always more expensive/gallon than diesel
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      09-27-2013, 12:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Sharp_Cai View Post
$75k???!!! I would go for a used GT-R for that money. Now, I don't feel too bed live in California
Haha, we have hefty import taxes and custom duties here which makes the car expensive.

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Originally Posted by ibimmer346 View Post
89 RON? I would never run gasoline in the 328i engine with such a low octane rating. You're talking a turbo engine with relatively high compression. The only way 89 RON would work is if you kept the revs super-low. At that point, you might as well have a diesel. The U.S. owners manual says minimum 89 AKI which is like 93-94 RON. 89 RON is about 84-85 AKI which we can't even get in the U.S. Well, not in California anyway.
Well, 93 RON is also easily available here but I just wanted to know what will happen in the worst case. Considering that I regularly fill 93 RON, how much drop in performance do you think I'll notice in the stock 0-100 figure of 6.1 secs ?

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Originally Posted by DesertSmokeBBQ View Post
Um, I dunno what "US" scene you're talking a out but the one I live in, petrol is almost always more expensive/gallon than diesel
Well if you compare the On-highway diesel prices in some states it is more than gasoline, for e.g. take Cali. The diesel is slightly expensive. Also, the 'scene' I was referring to was the availability of diesel in the US which is not as good as gasoline there.
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      10-06-2013, 10:43 AM   #6
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Any more answers ?
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      10-06-2013, 10:49 AM   #7
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Any more answers ?
I would not run lower quality petrol in my 328i so if I lived in an area where diesel is more abundant I would get the 328d. The issue is the long term effects of running poor quality\lower octane fuel in your 328i. You will have some issues in the long term.The diesel version is just as fast as the petrol and if you need more performance then there is the after-market tunes that you can buy. I think you said you would be getting the PPK so that would make the 328d a nice performing car from the get-go. Good luck on making your decision and Congrats !
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      10-06-2013, 11:01 AM   #8
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I would not run lower quality petrol in my 328i so if I lived in an area where diesel is more abundant I would get the 328d. The issue is the long term effects of running poor quality\lower octane fuel in your 328i. You will have some issues in the long term.The diesel version is just as fast as the petrol and if you need more performance then there is the after-market tunes that you can buy. I think you said you would be getting the PPK so that would make the 328d a nice performing car from the get-go. Good luck on making your decision and Congrats !
Thanks buddy! It's the 320d with performance kit I'm considering and not the 328d as we don't have that here in India. The main concern is that if I get the 328i, it'd be 91 RON that I would be able to fill for regular use as there aren't any good pumps in my locality. So, with 91 RON as you said I might have an issue and also the performance would be effected right from the word go. By how much will the performance drop with the use of 91 RON fuel according to you ?
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      10-06-2013, 11:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
Thanks buddy! It's the 320d with performance kit I'm considering and not the 328d as we don't have that here in India. The main concern is that if I get the 328i, it'd be 91 RON that I would be able to fill for regular use as there aren't any good pumps in my locality. So, with 91 RON as you said I might have an issue and also the performance would be effected right from the word go. By how much will the performance drop with the use of 91 RON fuel according to you ?
The 328d in the states is the same as the 320d everywhere else.
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      10-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
Thanks buddy! It's the 320d with performance kit I'm considering and not the 328d as we don't have that here in India. The main concern is that if I get the 328i, it'd be 91 RON that I would be able to fill for regular use as there aren't any good pumps in my locality. So, with 91 RON as you said I might have an issue and also the performance would be effected right from the word go. By how much will the performance drop with the use of 91 RON fuel according to you ?
I am no expert by any means but I just did a quick search on the internet and found most of the answer you are asking. Here is the link to the article I found. The assumptions are that you will lose 2-3 % in HP when running on lower octane fuel. Based on this , I think you have no concerns with buying the petrol version if that is what you want but you must understand the lower octane with poor quality due to sub-par additives may foul up your injectors, intakes, etc. in the long term.

http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/126...ctane-gasoline


General Motors, Honda, Toyota and BMW responded to our inquiry. Honda’s public relations representative declined to comment on the issue. Toyota noted that essentially all their current models are designed to run on 87 octane. I asked about using 85 octane, available in some markets, and Bill Kwong of Toyota corporate PR told me they would run fine, with maybe only a slight 2-3 percent decline in horsepower and fuel mileage. But 85 octane is usually only offered in markets at altitude (i.e. Denver, Colorado) where the reduced oxygen doesn’t allow an engine to reach full designed power in any event. If you drive a modern Toyota, the octane rating of your fuel isn’t much of an issue. But what about a brand aimed squarely at the performance market? What about BMW?

Thomas Plucinsky, BMW Product and Technology Communications Manager told us all BMW engines are designed to run on 91 octane. All performance testing, including EPA emissions and fuel mileage, is done with 91 octane. However, though BMW is all about performance, their motors will run on 89 or 87 octane without damage. The knock sensors pull the ignition timing back and eliminate detonation. There will be a loss of power and a decrease in fuel mileage, but the size of the horsepower loss and the increase in fuel consumption depends upon many factors, such as ambient temperature, exact formulation of the fuel and driving technique, so BMW does not offer any estimates for operation on lower grade fuels. One not so obvious concern, Mr. Plucinsky noted, is the type and quality of additives the gasoline companies include in the fuel. Premium gasolines may have better additive packages which are more effective keeping fuel systems (particularly injectors) clean and working efficiently, than those in regular grade fuels or off-brand products. Using lower octane or off-brand fuel could be degrading the fuel system over time, setting you up for a repair bill down the line

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      10-06-2013, 11:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
Hey!

I have been planning a 3-series from quite a while and finally the time is nearing. I'm strongly considering two variants that is the 320d SportLine and the 328i SportLine. Both are top of the line variants and the 320d SportLine costs around $69,000 with the Power Performance Kit and the 328i costs $75,000 on the road. The equipment level in both the cars are more or les exactly the same. The fuel scene here in India is opposite as compared to the United States. The Petrol costs higher than the diesel and the availability of good quality Petrol is rare. Usually it's 89 RON Petrol all over.

Here are my questions;

- How would the 320d with the Power Performance Kit and Performance Exhaust perform against the stock 328i running on 89 RON petrol?

- The claimed figure of the 328i to 100 by the company is 6.1 secs which is tested on 98 RON Petrol. By how much will it deteriorate if 89 RON Petrol is used?

- Can the 328i go into limp mode with regular use of 89 RON fuel ?

Thanks in advance.
What is included in the power kit for 320d? Is it posible such kit to compensate 2 sec in acseleration 0-100 km/h? It is better to order 330d if it is available on your market.

In my country the quality of gas and diesel is not constant, but I have 25000 kms without any problems.

Do you plan to order M adaptive suspension?
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      10-06-2013, 12:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDK View Post
What is included in the power kit for 320d? Is it posible such kit to compensate 2 sec in acseleration 0-100 km/h? It is better to order 330d if it is available on your market.

In my country the quality of gas and diesel is not constant, but I have 25000 kms without any problems.

Do you plan to order M adaptive suspension?
Not M-Adaptive but I'm planning to add Bilstein B6 dampers and H&R Sport Springs. The power kit adds another 50nm of torque and around 25bhp. The intercooler also get's upgraded. The 328i on paper does 0-100 km/h in 6.1 sec with 98 RON. With poor quality of fuel expect it to worsen by atleast 0.5 secs. The 320d's stick figure to 0-100 is 7.4 secs which after the power kit and upgraded intercooler and air filter goes down to around 6.9 secs. Tuning a 328i is out of question considering the fuel quality. SO, in real world, considering our conditions, the actual difference between the 320d and 328i is 0.3-0.4 secs to the 100 mark and also knowing that in the long run the engine would be effected by the use of low octane fuel, I'm inclined towards the 320d.
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      10-06-2013, 12:14 PM   #13
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The 328d in the states is the same as the 320d everywhere else.
Didn't know. Didn't do much research. Thanks for the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1N54E92 View Post
I am no expert by any means but I just did a quick search on the internet and found most of the answer you are asking. Here is the link to the article I found. The assumptions are that you will lose 2-3 % in HP when running on lower octane fuel. Based on this , I think you have no concerns with buying the petrol version if that is what you want but you must understand the lower octane with poor quality due to additives may foul up your injectors, intakes, etc. in the long term.

http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/126...ctane-gasoline


General Motors, Honda, Toyota and BMW responded to our inquiry. Honda’s public relations representative declined to comment on the issue. Toyota noted that essentially all their current models are designed to run on 87 octane. I asked about using 85 octane, available in some markets, and Bill Kwong of Toyota corporate PR told me they would run fine, with maybe only a slight 2-3 percent decline in horsepower and fuel mileage. But 85 octane is usually only offered in markets at altitude (i.e. Denver, Colorado) where the reduced oxygen doesn’t allow an engine to reach full designed power in any event. If you drive a modern Toyota, the octane rating of your fuel isn’t much of an issue. But what about a brand aimed squarely at the performance market? What about BMW?

Thomas Plucinsky, BMW Product and Technology Communications Manager told us all BMW engines are designed to run on 91 octane. All performance testing, including EPA emissions and fuel mileage, is done with 91 octane. However, though BMW is all about performance, their motors will run on 89 or 87 octane without damage. The knock sensors pull the ignition timing back and eliminate detonation. There will be a loss of power and a decrease in fuel mileage, but the size of the horsepower loss and the increase in fuel consumption depends upon many factors, such as ambient temperature, exact formulation of the fuel and driving technique, so BMW does not offer any estimates for operation on lower grade fuels. One not so obvious concern, Mr. Plucinsky noted, is the type and quality of additives the gasoline companies include in the fuel. Premium gasolines may have better additive packages which are more effective keeping fuel systems (particularly injectors) clean and working efficiently, than those in regular grade fuels or off-brand products. Using lower octane or off-brand fuel could be degrading the fuel system over time, setting you up for a repair bill down the line

Thanks once again for the detailed info.
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      10-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #14
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Hi Adi

In india I'd consider other alternatives mainly because;

- apparently you don't get sport suspension, even on a fully loaded car (after paying crazy 75k) you get base suspension in india.

- re: reliability, I've heard its a lot more difficult to get things fixed there than here. This seems to be a brand where things do go wrong once in a while, you want to be sure of the service network. I wouldn't buy a bmw in india.

Frankly even my Indica was more reliable than both my bmws here.

But I love the way these cars drive! As long as I'm in the US I'll try yo stick to this brand but I can't even imagine buying one in india.

Just my perspective.

PS: get a Fiesta Classic diesel with the TDCi engine and you'll have lots of money for upgrades like wheels and tyres, lots n lots of fun!
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      10-06-2013, 12:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
Not M-Adaptive but I'm planning to add Bilstein B6 dampers and H&R Sport Springs. The power kit adds another 50nm of torque and around 25bhp. The intercooler also get's upgraded. The 328i on paper does 0-100 km/h in 6.1 sec with 98 RON. With poor quality of fuel expect it to worsen by atleast 0.5 secs. The 320d's stick figure to 0-100 is 7.4 secs which after the power kit and upgraded intercooler and air filter goes down to around 6.9 secs. Tuning a 328i is out of question considering the fuel quality. SO, in real world, considering our conditions, the actual difference between the 320d and 328i is 0.3-0.4 secs to the 100 mark and also knowing that in the long run the engine would be effected by the use of low octane fuel, I'm inclined towards the 320d.
The power kit is a chip or power box? Is that official offer from local BMW dealers? What about the warranty? Do you have good roads for such suspension? I prefered 17" wheels with adaptive suspension bacause of our bad roads here.
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      10-06-2013, 12:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newoldbeemer View Post
Hi Adi

In india I'd consider other alternatives mainly because;

- apparently you don't get sport suspension, even on a fully loaded car (after paying crazy 75k) you get base suspension in india.

- re: reliability, I've heard its a lot more difficult to get things fixed there than here. This seems to be a brand where things do go wrong once in a while, you want to be sure of the service network. I wouldn't buy a bmw in india.

Frankly even my Indica was more reliable than both my bmws here.

But I love the way these cars drive! As long as I'm in the US I'll try yo stick to this brand but I can't even imagine buying one in india.

Just my perspective.

PS: get a Fiesta Classic diesel with the TDCi engine and you'll have lots of money for upgrades like wheels and tyres, lots n lots of fun!
Thanks for the advice bro but already have a couple of bimmers and must say India has changed a lot. The roads are more or less fine and the scene in metro cities is quite good. Lastly, YOLO.

Quote:
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The power kit is a chip or power box? Is that official offer from local BMW dealers? What about the warranty?
It's official from BMW. The whole ECU is replaced with a new performance oriented one so the warranty remains intact. Otherwise lot's of aftermarket remapping options available which can even take the power to 225 odd bhp but that would void the warranty.
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      10-06-2013, 12:59 PM   #17
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No options to order 330d in India?
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      10-06-2013, 12:59 PM   #18
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Hey OP I agree with newoldbeemer...If they are going to be a pain in the ass to fix things..DONT get this car...if you have a good warranty program from the dealer, and are able to get suitable petrol, go with the 328, if the diesel is more predictable, and more consistant overall go with the 320d.

Dont get me wrong the 3 is a great car, but it has some issues that are not quite resolved yet...last thing you wanna do is pay double for a car and then at the very least not get the proper servicing when needed.
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      10-06-2013, 01:11 PM   #19
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Hey OP I agree with newoldbeemer...If they are going to be a pain in the ass to fix things..DONT get this car...if you have a good warranty program from the dealer, and are able to get suitable petrol, go with the 328, if the diesel is more predictable, and more consistant overall go with the 320d.

Dont get me wrong the 3 is a great car, but it has some issues that are not quite resolved yet...last thing you wanna do is pay double for a car and then at the very least not get the proper servicing when needed.
The life is short to make comprimises. If you can buy BMW why to buy some cheaper alternatives.
Probably he can order extended waranty also.
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      10-06-2013, 01:16 PM   #20
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      10-06-2013, 01:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
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No options to order 330d in India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by btbossman View Post
Hey OP I agree with newoldbeemer...If they are going to be a pain in the ass to fix things..DONT get this car...if you have a good warranty program from the dealer, and are able to get suitable petrol, go with the 328, if the diesel is more predictable, and more consistant overall go with the 320d.

There are no issues with servicing at all. It's just a misconception that some people has
Quote:
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The life is short to make comprimises. If you can buy BMW why to buy some cheaper alternatives.
Probably he can order extended waranty also.
Bingo!

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Originally Posted by DesertSmokeBBQ View Post
$75k USD or INR?
75,000 US Dollars. On which they offer a discount of around 2000/2500 USDs. This is the on the road price with lifetime road tax
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      10-07-2013, 05:39 AM   #22
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I am sure BMW engines are designed to run on all sorts of petrol and am also sure they would not offer the petrol engine in a market if they thought the local fuel would damage the car and therefore their reputation. I would be more worried about putting low quality diesel into a modern European diesel engine as the fuel companies in Europe have made huge strides to improve the quality of this vile fuel and the engine manufacturers have developed engines to make fully use of these advances.

If the choice is between a bodged up diesel or a stock petrol, I would go for the stock option every time.

I confess my only knowledge of Indian roads is as a tourist in the back of a car in Bombay, Delhi and some other tourist sites but confess I do not remember any roads where you could fully (or even partially!) enjoy a 328i.
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