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      09-27-2013, 07:20 PM   #111
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WTF. NNNNNNOOOOOOO. Not the 2 series.

Well I would only be happy if it's super light and has a good weight distribution and handeling.

I currently own the Mini Coupe JCW and it's a blast. I love the feel and quick it gets around. I always said I would never drive a FWD or nothing less than a V8, when I had muscle cars. But these European cars especially BMW man they sure make your mind change. Look at the M3 and M4 it's I6 turbo and for what they say. It's going to be a great car.
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      09-27-2013, 07:39 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
...and for BMW to grow in that segment then their COMPACT cars have to grow in terms of packaging and the solution to increase interior space is by adopting FWD.
Or the i3, which makes all FWD compact cars look like dinosaurs including those from MINI dare I say. In my mind the future of the compact performance sedan must be in the i3 DNA or it will simply wither and fade away.

I truly hope that this technology continues to evolve and merges into mainstream BMWs so the 2 Series is can be RWD like the i3.
This. I want to see an i3 with the horrible heavy batteries ditched and the little 3-pot out of the i8 powering the rear wheels. With those skinny tyres. I can hope.
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      09-27-2013, 08:07 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
If the 3 and 4 series are the smallest RWD cars available, then not only am I never buying a new BMW but I am done being a BMW enthusiast. I am tired of getting shafted at the release of every new model.

Ha! It's not that easy my friend. I'll admit, I have been feeling less enthusiastic myself, and was pretty sure the f30 was my last BMW. But, with news of the imminent release of the M235i, here I am again. It's hard to un-enthusiast yourself.
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      09-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #114
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Good lord, BMW is shitting cars like Jay-Z shits rap albums. There are so many models and sub-models of models and M sub-model models, it's totally out of control.
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      09-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #115
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don't worry there will be a lot of magazines telling that the fwd bimmer is something short of the second coming, and there will be a forum for that car where people will say they are happy with their "beasts" and how beautiful the car is and bla bla bla, and sometime from now the echoes of the voices of those who spoke the truth will not be heard. it happened with the x1, it happened with the turbo bimmers, it happened with the 5gt, it happened with the m4 name, and it will continue to happen until bmw won't be bmw anymore but a new audi brand. I will only say that now my wall is filled with posters of 997 gt3's which I am starting to respect more than the couple of bimmers in my garage...
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      09-27-2013, 11:56 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by wakedaze View Post
BMW is REALLY positioning itself to be the German Toyota.
B I N G O
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      09-28-2013, 12:01 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasovan View Post
No, it'll come in AWD as well and that's what counts for me here in the Alps. For anybody who's asking why is BMW doing this, the answer is packaging. So it makes sense for smaller cars as the new 1 sedan and hatch. The transversally mounted engine leaves more space to be used for the cabin. That's why the side view of the previous and current 1 series hatch (longitudinally mounted engine) is so different to other hatches and that's why the new A-class MB (transversally mounted engine) is so cute (to many, not to me).
WELL said... looks attract ~Frost
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      09-28-2013, 12:02 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by SAM135iAM View Post
Minus the Toyota reliability.
HA! ....( because its true )
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      09-28-2013, 12:27 AM   #119
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Let's see how close BMW gets to their hallowed 50/50 weight distribution with this one!

Easy, they will make the driver sit in the back on the rear axel!
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      09-28-2013, 03:22 AM   #120
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If so, then this will be yet ANOTHER car that I won't even look at/test drive (aka, will lose my money). I recently went back to FWD (my wife's car) and I remembered instantly why I stopped driving them all those years ago. Even Madza's very fun to drive FWD cars (for a fraction of the cost a 1 series will probably go for) are not nearly as fun to drive as a AWD or RWD car.

Maybe the 1 series will at least come with an AWD option...
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      09-28-2013, 04:36 AM   #121
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Every few months a post like this pops up, and everyone starts complaining all over again.

And, again, I'll ask that the neigh sayers go drive a Mini (if they haven't already) and report how "terrible" the car performed.

Mini = FWD
Mini = BMW
Mini = Fantastic

Therefore, a FWD BMW should be Fantastic.

GET OVER IT!

Claiming to run off to another MFG because of something that hasn't even been produced yet just shows how much of a "fair weather fan" you are. BMW will do just fine with or without you.

I, myself, am hoping to snag an m2 GC or an M235i GC (if they make either model) as it should be e46 sized and perfect for the next 10+ years for me. That car is at least 2 years out, I'm at least 5 years from purchasing one, I will keep it for about 10 years, so who knows what BMW will be producing (or not producing) after that. I should be quite aged at that point, probably ready for a 4er GC, a 6er GC or an SAV.
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      09-28-2013, 04:57 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
2 series will have RWD, as Scott said: Coupe, Cabrio, GC, etc.
1 series wil be FWD. I'm curious who's on target for these models? Only new BMW customers?
I don't think we'll see many actual BMW customers to make the switch to a FWD car as they already like a RWD BMW.
Please read the article again. Yes, the upcoming first gen 2 series will have RWD. But we further consider the second gen 2 series having FWD and the reasoning for it.
The article is not coming up when clicked.

Why bother making an RWD 2 series just to cripple it later? Totally pointless and a betrayal of those who buy BMW other than to look good

BMW's USP has been rear drive 50:50 weight distribution with precision handling.

I for one will not be spending BMW price money on a FWD car, if I want that kind of car I'd save money and buy a Skoda or Seat which will drive just as well and cost 1000s less.
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      09-28-2013, 05:54 AM   #123
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Agreed, for those of us that have track experience and care. My wife would plow into the first thing she came across with rwd but can manage with awd or fwd.
I obviously have no personal knowledges with which to pass judgement but I would still say not to sell anyone too short. My wife drove a RWD 335i for multiple winters, and she has no track experience. It was even a 6MT. Never a complaint - in fact she praised the car for its ability to handle foul weather and openly wondered what all the fuss with RWD was about. And lest you think it was a fluke situation, believe me when I say she still has all the pesky wife driving habits and I still had (and have) the urge to correct her when I ride as a passenger with her. Just one man's experience.
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      09-28-2013, 06:32 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by ep_83 View Post
I wonder if the M division will build an AWD M version of this 1 series to compete with the CLA AMG and RS3.
As long as the 2 series remains RWD I don't see this happening (so certainly not this generation). Now, if the 2 Series moves to UKL at a future date, then I'd say it becomes very likely.

Regarding price, I don't think we should expect a 1 Series to undercut a 2 Series any more than a 3 Series does a 4 Series.
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      09-28-2013, 06:38 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpagianotto
Disregarding the goodbye to the world's last RWD hatchback, which is a colossal shame, I actually would've preferred to see a bmw subbrand (akin to bmw i) to promote these cheaper fwd cars than to have one amidst bmw's main lineup.

It is really saddening for a bmw fan to see the company slowly (well, not that slowly as a matter of fact) throw away all principles that once led to the "ultimate driving machine" in favor of market share.

And even though I understand the need to look for other pieces of the market in order to expand, I actually do think they're undermining their legacy that got them to the top of the premium brands in the first place.

That research about how 1er owners didn't know their cars were RWD was misinterpreted, in my opinion. The fact that a consumer doesn't understand how a car works does not mean they don't appreciate how well it performs, especially in comparison to the competition.

I think it was Henry Ford that said if consumers were asked what they wanted at the time the car was invented, they would've answered a faster horse instead of a motored carriage, even thought they would've preferred the carriage all along, and never knew it.

BMW consumers (at least historically) want a car that has more dynamic and sporting appeals than the competition, and RWD plays a huge part in giving BMWs that dynamic edge, even if only a small part of the consumers (us, enthusiasts) is actually aware of how it works. But a FWD 1er has no difference in comparison to an a3 or an A-Klasse, except for the design and the badge.

Unfortunately, though, that just means that the consumer profile of bmw will change - enthusiasts will have to look elsewhere since their cars no longer have that dynamic edge, and all that's left will be badge whores and poseurs. A pity, really.

But, just as the consumer is only interested in their own needs and wants, BMW is only interested in profits. So, to each their own. My f20 is my first BMW, but the way things are going, I don't even know if I'll ever go for a second. In any case, to me, doomsday came way before this announcement, though - it happened when car magazines elected a cadillac as a better driver's car than a 3 series.
Fully agree with your first statement - It is a crying shame the only hatchback BMW do is going FWD as this was what made it so different - RS3 was faster but understeers for example.

If BMW can make FWD and xDrive models and already have the tooling for RWD why not just make a RWD option for those of us who want the correct wheels to power the car?


I don't want to be nasty but this is a shift to style over substance which will ultimately cheapen the brand - you can't have an exclusive car brand that everyone owns - that is a non sequitur. Stick to what you do best
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      09-28-2013, 07:27 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
Every few months a post like this pops up, and everyone starts complaining all over again.

And, again, I'll ask that the neigh sayers go drive a Mini (if they haven't already) and report how "terrible" the car performed.

Mini = FWD
Mini = BMW
Mini = Fantastic

Therefore, a FWD BMW should be Fantastic.

GET OVER IT!

Claiming to run off to another MFG because of something that hasn't even been produced yet just shows how much of a "fair weather fan" you are. BMW will do just fine with or without you.

I, myself, am hoping to snag an m2 GC or an M235i GC (if they make either model) as it should be e46 sized and perfect for the next 10+ years for me. That car is at least 2 years out, I'm at least 5 years from purchasing one, I will keep it for about 10 years, so who knows what BMW will be producing (or not producing) after that. I should be quite aged at that point, probably ready for a 4er GC, a 6er GC or an SAV.
Okay, so lets get real with this. I've driven both the 1st gen Mini and the 2nd gen Mini. The 1st Gen Mini IMO handles better than the 2nd Gen. BMW of Germany didn't design the 1st Gen New Mini, Rover essentially did. BMW acquired the Rover Group in 1994 and the Rover Group designed the 1st Gen New Mini. BMW broke apart Rover and kept Mini. If anything, BMW bought Rover (and Mini) for the intellectual property it had related to front drive architecture and SUVs. BMW has learned from Mini about how to design and build a good front-drive architecture, not the other way around. Sure, BMW injected some of the sportiness into the original New Mini design (back in the days when BMW actually still made sport sedans), but it can't be said the New Mini is a pure BMW design in the same light as a 3-Series is. The Mini still doesn't have a pure-BMW designed engine architecture; the first engine was co-developed with Chrysler (until MB bought Chrysler) and the current motor was a co-development with Peugeot (it's basically a Peugeot block and internals with BMW's valvetronic added on top. Mini was the pioneer of small, well-packaged, front-drive economy cars.
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      09-28-2013, 08:23 AM   #127
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I don't care what they do with their numerical nomenclature, FWD or electro steering as long as they FOREVER offer a RWD, ~3300 pound, ~330 hp/tq, reasonably priced, 2-door, 4-seat coupe available with either a six-speed manual or a whatever-speed DCT auto and is STILL fun to drive. LSD optional.
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      09-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #128
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I guess a FWD 1 series will still loose the sales battle against VW and Audi.
In this moment F20/F21 are unique in the Compact Segment as being a RWD models. I'm sure most of the customers bought it due to this reason.
I also don't understand how using the same platform for 1 series and 2 series as RWD models can't be profitable.
Changing the next 2 series to FWD will be another big mistake. Time will tell.
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      09-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #129
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Talking

Found a new poster for BMW!

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      09-28-2013, 11:52 AM   #130
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Found a new poster for BMW!

Then how come it says AMG on it?
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      09-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #131
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Is the memory of the 318ti that faded? That's what happens when BMW decides to do something new.
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      09-28-2013, 04:13 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Why is it when FWD is mentioned but disclosed in a way that states how it will be implemented that many go the full Kanye and rant knowing all too well that these decisions will not affect them?

Watch the IAA press conference to hear why BMW is progressing as a company.
The "global" market is expanding and there is great demand for compact premium cars. In that segment there is a requirement for extra space and flexibility and for BMW to grow in that segment then their COMPACT cars have to grow in terms of packaging and the solution to increase interior space is by adopting FWD.

The BMW UKL cars will be closer aligned to the next MINI which for the segment you are going to see some impressive technology filter down from BMW to MINI.
The UKL matrix is adaptable between BMW and MINI and modular so a full range of models can be developed by strategic placement of the modular areas to identify many individual models. It also gives MINI a serious profit surge than the current car.

The 1er Sedan will come with a MINI Twin , but since you protest too much to care? then you will still receive a 2er Gran Coupe in 2015.
The sportier nature of the new 2er Coupe and how it fits between the 1er , 3er and 4er will be revealed on October 25.
Some of us prefer sedans to coupes so we don't WANT a 2er and if I wanted a FWD BMW is just buy another MINI and save a crap ton of money. Also, while I love my JCW Clubman, and think it handles pretty well, even on the Ring, if you think it holds a candle to even a 128i in handling you need to step away from the kool-aid bowl.
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