[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

Just sharing my experience with the F8x LCAs on my 335i since there is information missing in this thread about the retrofit.

Because the F8x LCA's are longer than the F30's the wheel gets pushed forward (positive caster) as stated in this thread already, and introduces 2 problems:
1. How to correct the caster/push wheel back to avoid rub in the front
- I decided to install caster adjustable bushings on the OE thrust arms instead of opting for the F8x thrust arms, as many have stated that they do not correct the caster. The bushings I went with are PowerFlex part No. PFF5-1901G black race series and I believe can be adjusted to +/-4 degrees . Before taking the oem thrust arms off, I could tell that the bushings were worn as I could see cracks in the rubber and was able to rock the arms a bit by using force. This would result in a lot of deflection once under load. The powerflex bushings are solid and have no deflection, which I was worried would make the ride harsh, but they're surprisingly not too bad. They did push the wheel back slightly but not to the original position which is fine with me. The steering is way more sharp and the car turns in much easier even after the LCA install. Also, braking has improved dramatically since there's now more camber and less deflection in the bushings.

2. Because the F8x LCAs are longer, the OE tie rods need to be threaded out pretty far.
- After installing the F8x LCAs there was only about a 1/4 inch left on the tie rods which made me really nervous. I didn't find any info on whether the F8x tie rods fit the 335i so I took a gamble and ordered them. The outer tie rods are interchangeable, ie same for F3x and F8x. The inner tie rods are definitely longer by about an inch compared to the OE 335i rods. However, they thread right on just like the OE rods and worked out perfectly. This just gave me peace of mind but I'm sure it's also a must if you're doing this retrofit. Imagine you hit big pothole or some sort of road imperfection, the shortened rod could possibly snap or bend as a result.

Alignment specs in the front are now LR -2.1/-2 Camber, 7.7 caster and 0.12 toe.


Hope this helps.

So you used inner and outer f80 tie rods?
I'm about to order everything I need for this, I was wondering about that because I had the same worry of such little engagement

I am almost at the point of swapping an f80 front subframe in, I just wish I knew if my steering rack would work/mount up to that subframe as they are different part numbers.

Do we know if it's the subframe or hubs that cause the wheels to sit forward? I'm really getting curious as subframes are not very expensive and I've pulled them before…

[Marq_z]

Yes, you can't buy them separate, they're sold together as 1 piece. I added links to the parts in my last post. I don't think it makes sense to run the LCAs without the appropriate tie rods.

Wy do all that work? Seems like the cost/benefit isn't worth it. Even if you're tracking the car, there are other ways to manipulate and dial-in the suspension.

Afaik the hubs are different. I've read a few threads that discussed this briefly.

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

Yes, you can't buy them separate, they're sold together as 1 piece. I added links to the parts in my last post. I don't think it makes sense to run the LCAs without the appropriate tie rods.

Wy do all that work? Seems like the cost/benefit isn't worth it. Even if you're tracking the car, there are other ways to manipulate and dial-in the suspension.

Afaik the hubs are different. I've read a few threads that discussed this briefly.

I know the subframes are vastly different, but it's hard to tell if the geometry is different in mounting points or if it truly is just hub geometry, I was toying with the idea of swapping subframes when I had my car all apart, subframes can be found for 300-400$, I'm in a unique spot where my entire front end is about to be rebuilt (control arms, thrust arms, tie rods, wheel bearings, new coil overs) so it's especially interesting to me now, if I knew the steering rack mounted up, I'd send it, I already modified my subframe to install m3 engine mounts anyway so there's another step, lol

[mike082802]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

I know the subframes are vastly different, but it's hard to tell if the geometry is different in mounting points or if it truly is just hub geometry, I was toying with the idea of swapping subframes when I had my car all apart, subframes can be found for 300-400$, I'm in a unique spot where my entire front end is about to be rebuilt (control arms, thrust arms, tie rods, wheel bearings, new coil overs) so it's especially interesting to me now, if I knew the steering rack mounted up, I'd send it, I already modified my subframe to install m3 engine mounts anyway so there's another step, lol

maybe talk to a few shops and see the consensus. i say be the Guinea pig since your whole front end will be apart anyways. for 300-400 if it didn't fit you could part out anyways and recoup some of your money back.

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by mike082802

maybe talk to a few shops and see the consensus. i say be the Guinea pig since your whole front end will be apart anyways. for 300-400 if it didn't fit you could part out anyways and recoup some of your money back.

Kind of what I'm thinking
I want to keep the f30 hubs lol, but I would be doing f80 ts, control arms, and tie rods, really curious… I may call around this upcoming week or 2

[sspade]

F80 arms on the F30 has proven to be a disastrous and foolish idea. That video should be deleted for promoting something harmful for the sole purpose of selling auto parts.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by sspade

F80 arms on the F30 has proven to be a disastrous and foolish idea. That video should be deleted for promoting something harmful for the sole purpose of selling auto parts.

Agreed! IMO it's often soguys can brag that they installed F80 parts on their F30. And you can't even do it on an XDrive car or it will instantly snap a front driveshaft. Much smarter to install the proper VAC monoball Upper Control Arms on the F30.

For RWD F3x:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

For XDRIVE F3x:

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

[Pussiwillow]

We'll I got a lead on a frame and asking if they can measure the mounting lay out so I can compare, if it matches I may go for science here and send it, would be amazing if it centers the wheel, I'm not going to replace hubs if it doesn't, it's not cost affective but 400$ for a frame I can handle that. I know they mount up to the chassis, but ya, I'll report back

[Marq_z]

Originally Posted by sspade

F80 arms on the F30 has proven to be a disastrous and foolish idea. That video should be deleted for promoting something harmful for the sole purpose of selling auto parts.

Can you elaborate? I'm assuming you're only talking about this retrofit on xdrive cars and not rwd. There are a lot of cars running these in the F3x and F2x chassis including myself with no issues.

[Marq_z]

Originally Posted by johnung

Agreed! IMO it's often soguys can brag that they installed F80 parts on their F30. And you can't even do it on an XDrive car or it will instantly snap a front driveshaft. Much smarter to install the proper VAC monoball Upper Control Arms on the F30.

There's a reason why the M cars handle better than the F30. Adding monoballs will definitely make the steering feel and turn in better but it won't add the negative camber that the LCAs will in order to increase handling performance. You can do adjustable control arms and camber plates but why would you when you can take the F8x components?

[JQ94_F32]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

There's a reason why the M cars handle better than the F30. Adding monoballs will definitely make the steering feel and turn in better but it won't add the negative camber that the LCAs will in order to increase handling performance. You can do adjustable control arms and camber plates but why would you when you can take the F8x components?

Would there be a reason to install the control arms after you installed camber plates? Would it still make a difference to the steering and the handling?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm installing camber plates in a few weeks.

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by JQ94_F32

Would there be a reason to install the control arms after you installed camber plates? Would it still make a difference to the steering and the handling?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm installing camber plates in a few weeks.

Some people max out camber plates and still don't have the desired geometry they're after, there's several members with both and have great success

[Marq_z]

Originally Posted by JQ94_F32

Would there be a reason to install the control arms after you installed camber plates? Would it still make a difference to the steering and the handling?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm installing camber plates in a few weeks.

No, I wouldn't bother. Camber plates can give you up to -3 degrees which should be sufficient for track applications. I think it would be a waste of money to add the LCA's on top of that. Also, not sure if they would even provide additional camber.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

No, I wouldn't bother. Camber plates can give you up to -3 degrees which should be sufficient for track applications. I think it would be a waste of money to add the LCA's on top of that. Also, not sure if they would even provide additional camber.

I have both and could easily have -4, not that I would ever do that. I street/track the car at -3.
I personally have had a pretty good experience with mine, but I had far fewer options available at a reasonable price at the time. There are better options these days as others are saying. Many are cheaper.

[zinner]

I have been using the F80 lower arms up front for a year now at the track. They require an alignment and a F30 bushing. I would not drive your car any more than on to the back of a trailer or tow truck until aligned.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/F8X-Fron...Assembled.html

I think I could hit -4* of camber with that kit and GC camber plates, but I typically do -2.5 to -2.75.

[Pussiwillow]

Those that have done the f80 arms with camber plates, how has the positive castor and geometry benefited the chassis?
I'm debating this upgrade, but can achieve my camber desired with plates like you guys could, but I like to hear the feedback on the other parts of the mod.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Those that have done the f80 arms with camber plates, how has the positive castor and geometry benefited the chassis?
I'm debating this upgrade, but can achieve my camber desired with plates like you guys could, but I like to hear the feedback on the other parts of the mod.

As posted previously, I've inadvertently (thanks to SuperPro) had F80 wishbones installed on my RWD F31 330d.

In terms of suspension the car runs Millway camber plates, F3X tension struts with SuperPro poly bushes, Ohlins R&T (lowered, in layman's terms, to 'one finger'), Eibach anti roll bars, OEM 403M rims with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/4019 F and 265/35/19 R, and 12mm spacers all round.

F80 wishbones pushed the wheel hub centre forwards in the wheel well causing significant rubbing under compression and especially with any steering angle applied.

Even with the camber plates set to full positive the camber was -2.5. For road driving I find that around -1.75 is a good compromise between better turn-in and reasonably tyre life on the inner shoulders.

The track control rods couldn't even be reconnected unless they were wound out a very long way. Although not enough to be dangerous, the shop did mention that it had to do a very unusual/large amount of adjustment to be able to reconnect the track rod ends.

I had to remove the front spacers straight away, which left the wheels significantly 'tucked' - this is not a look that appeals to me.

I had the shop install BMW OEM wishbones (rubber bushes) as a temporary solution until Millway F3X arms with sealed hyme bushes were delivered. The Millway units have been on the car for several months now, with no problems. My preferred geo was, of course, easy for the shop to re-establish.

Although I (kind of) admire your bravery in terms of an F30/F80 subframe swap my main reactions are "why ?" and "don't !".

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by Watsey

As posted previously, I've inadvertently (thanks to SuperPro) had F80 wishbones installed on my RWD F31 330d.

In terms of suspension the car runs Millway camber plates, F3X tension struts with SuperPro poly bushes, Ohlins R&T (lowered, in layman's terms, to 'one finger'), Eibach anti roll bars, OEM 403M rims with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/4019 F and 265/35/19 R, and 12mm spacers all round.

F80 wishbones pushed the wheel hub centre forwards in the wheel well causing significant rubbing under compression and especially with any steering angle applied.

Even with the camber plates set to full positive the camber was -2.5. For road driving I find that around -1.75 is a good compromise between better turn-in and reasonably tyre life on the inner shoulders.

The track control rods couldn't even be reconnected unless they were wound out a very long way. Although not enough to be dangerous, the shop did mention that it had to do a very unusual/large amount of adjustment to be able to reconnect the track rod ends.

I had to remove the front spacers straight away, which left the wheels significantly 'tucked' - this is not a look that appeals to me.

I had the shop install BMW OEM wishbones (rubber bushes) as a temporary solution until Millway F3X arms with sealed hyme bushes were delivered. The Millway units have been on the car for several months now, with no problems. My preferred geo was, of course, easy for the shop to re-establish.

Although I (kind of) admire your bravery in terms of an F30/F80 subframe swap my main reactions are "why ?" and "don't !".

I appreciate the detailed response and experience you provided with that, looks like the same goals I have with my car so I’ll avoid the f80 arms since you had issues with the desired geometry you were after, thanks again!

[WallaceK]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

Just sharing my experience with the F8x LCAs on my 335i since there is information missing in this thread about the retrofit.

Because the F8x LCA’s are longer than the F30’s the wheel gets pushed forward (positive caster) as stated in this thread already, and introduces 2 problems:
1. How to correct the caster/push wheel back to avoid rub in the front
- I decided to install caster adjustable bushings on the OE thrust arms instead of opting for the F8x thrust arms, as many have stated that they do not correct the caster. The bushings I went with are PowerFlex part No. PFF5-1901G black race series and I believe can be adjusted to +/-4 degrees . Before taking the oem thrust arms off, I could tell that the bushings were worn as I could see cracks in the rubber and was able to rock the arms a bit by using force. This would result in a lot of deflection once under load. The powerflex bushings are solid and have no deflection, which I was worried would make the ride harsh, but they’re surprisingly not too bad. They did push the wheel back slightly but not to the original position which is fine with me. The steering is way more sharp and the car turns in much easier even after the LCA install. Also, braking has improved dramatically since there’s now more camber and less deflection in the bushings.

2. Because the F8x LCAs are longer, the OE tie rods need to be threaded out pretty far.
- After installing the F8x LCAs there was only about a 1/4 inch left on the tie rods which made me really nervous. I didn’t find any info on whether the F8x tie rods fit the 335i so I took a gamble and ordered them. The outer tie rods are interchangeable, ie same for F3x and F8x. The inner tie rods are definitely longer by about an inch compared to the OE 335i rods. However, they thread right on just like the OE rods and worked out perfectly. Did this for peace of mind but I think it’s also a must if you’re doing this retrofit. Imagine you hit big pothole or some sort of road imperfection, the shortened rod could possibly snap or bend as a result.

Alignment specs in the front are now LR -2.1/-2 Camber, 7.7 caster and 0.12 toe.



https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-31122284529kt

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...9389kt#fitment

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/pr...=1790#attr=515


Hope this helps.

I got the lcas and I was also worried about the same thing, especially because I want to zero all the toes in my car, so I will probably have even less thread, not to mention the lunar craters where I ride

I really appreciate your input, I'm searching for the tie rods right now. I want to be 100% sure on this, so the F80 rods are longer ONLY in the inner side? Like the one in this picture?



Is the outer part longer too?

Thx!

[yabx172]

Originally Posted by Marq_z

Just sharing my experience with the F8x LCAs on my 335i since there is information missing in this thread about the retrofit.

Because the F8x LCA’s are longer than the F30’s the wheel gets pushed forward (positive caster) as stated in this thread already, and introduces 2 problems:
1. How to correct the caster/push wheel back to avoid rub in the front
- I decided to install caster adjustable bushings on the OE thrust arms instead of opting for the F8x thrust arms, as many have stated that they do not correct the caster. The bushings I went with are PowerFlex part No. PFF5-1901G black race series and I believe can be adjusted to +/-4 degrees . Before taking the oem thrust arms off, I could tell that the bushings were worn as I could see cracks in the rubber and was able to rock the arms a bit by using force. This would result in a lot of deflection once under load. The powerflex bushings are solid and have no deflection, which I was worried would make the ride harsh, but they’re surprisingly not too bad. They did push the wheel back slightly but not to the original position which is fine with me. The steering is way more sharp and the car turns in much easier even after the LCA install. Also, braking has improved dramatically since there’s now more camber and less deflection in the bushings.

2. Because the F8x LCAs are longer, the OE tie rods need to be threaded out pretty far.
- After installing the F8x LCAs there was only about a 1/4 inch left on the tie rods which made me really nervous. I didn’t find any info on whether the F8x tie rods fit the 335i so I took a gamble and ordered them. The outer tie rods are interchangeable, ie same for F3x and F8x. The inner tie rods are definitely longer by about an inch compared to the OE 335i rods. However, they thread right on just like the OE rods and worked out perfectly. Did this for peace of mind but I think it’s also a must if you’re doing this retrofit. Imagine you hit big pothole or some sort of road imperfection, the shortened rod could possibly snap or bend as a result.

Alignment specs in the front are now LR -2.1/-2 Camber, 7.7 caster and 0.12 toe.



https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-31122284529kt

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...9389kt#fitment

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/pr...=1790#attr=515


Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing !
Maybe i should consider mount the F8x inner rods too

Originally Posted by SD Convert

The above images aren't coming through for me.

So, the question now becomes how the F80 corrects this issue. Is it in the Knuckle. the Subframe or both?

To be honest, i don't know

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anybody can confirm that is it the correct inner rod for F80 ?
According to Lemforder (ZF), i can find a part number for F30/F31 with 253mm, and this part number (see picture) but the length is not mentioned.

[WallaceK]

Originally Posted by yabx172

Does anybody can confirm that is it the correct inner rod for F80 ?
According to Lemforder (ZF), i can find a part number for F30/F31 with 253mm, and this part number (see picture) but the length is not mentioned.

Going through some googling I found this link for the F80 tie rods: https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/car-...em/32107849390

Apparently the F80 Inner Rod has a length of 291.4mm.

I also found this link for the F30 to compare: https://cars245.com/en/item/swag-209...od-axle-joint/

This has the same length that you mentioned (252.5 mm), but is pretty weird that it also mentions the length of 269mm.

Originally Posted by Marq_z

The inner tie rods are definitely longer by about an inch compared to the OE 335i rods.

According to the information above (about an inch longer), the F30 rods should be closer to 269mm than 253mm, but I can't confirm that.

Maybe I'm overthinking it too much, but I will probably give a shot to the F80 inner rods. I really wanted to know if the outer part is also longer, since I could find the parts being sold separately.

[WallaceK]

I almost forgot to comment about the process after I finished this mod. I won't focus so much into my opinion about the difference in the steering feeling since there is millions of posts and youtube videos about it. The only thing I want to say is that I absolute love it and it gives me a lot more confidence when going around corners with no NVH added.

Instead, I want to focus into some interesting information that I was able to confirm when going through this process:

1) I highly recommend doing the tie rods and personally, I wouldn't go LCA without them, since you be probably maxing out the thread with the F30 stock ones. This was a big issue for me since I like to run with zero'ed toes. Also, I was able to buy ONLY THE INNER RODS from the F80.



2) The length of the F30 inner tie rods are 269mm.



The length of the F80 inner tie rods are 291.4mm.





3) You DO NOT NECESSARILY NEED the M3 headlight control rod to have the ball joint added to your stock rod. Personally, I saved some money by buying the part number 2203200389 from aliexpress, although this number wont match with anything on realoem, by the pictures I was pretty confident that it would fit, as it did. They also mention the numbers 37146776549 /221320248. The number 37146776549 matches with some X5/X6 bmws. I could have saved a little bit more by just buying the ball joint from some hardware/car part store. I found one from a mercedes that I was almost sure it would fit too, but since I was in a hurry I prefered to buy the aliexpress one since the other option would take a bit longer to arrive and wasn't so much guaranteed that it would fit. In case someone wants to grab a ball joint from another source, here are some pics with measures that I took, I hope this helps!









Finally, a picture of the end result: