[RPM90]

I've been an MT driver for a very long time, 30yrs now.
After numerous test drives with the sport AT, and much deliberation, I decided to go with the sport AT in my 335i Msport.

I went with the AT knowing this was not a replacement for an MT, and that the driving experience wouldn't be the same, just different. So I went with the mindset that this would be a new and different experience.

The sport AT is truly exceptional compared to other AT's. It changes shift points, speed of shift, and shift quality based on what you set the "drivers mode" to. In comfort DM the shifts are sublime, extremely smooth. In sport driver mode the shifts feel quicker, and gear changes occur at higher rpm.
It's so quick to downshift and responds when I would want it to downshift even in auto mode, and it does so with perfect rev matching, which is what gives it that smooth feel.

I've been driving nearly 100% of the time in manual mode. I love manual mode cause it's really fun and gives me something to do like with an MT.
I also have to use manual mode when in 'sport' driver mode cause the trans won't give me top gear, 8th, until I'm way past legal limits. On it's own in full auto mode, 7th doesn't come until 70mph, and 8th not until around 100mph. Since I want firmer steering, and want lower cruising rpm, and the better MPG of over drive, I have to use manual mode to shift into top gear before getting a ticket.

I have to warm up the trans before it gets to it's smoothest shifts, at least that's the case with my 335i. When cold the shifts are more perceptible not as smooth, and if I use manual mode and low rpm, the shifts are even more felt. Once everything is nice and warm though, all of it smooths out and shifts are butter smooth.

I'm just approaching 500 miles. Right now I'm trying so many different modes and driving in different ways that whatever adaptive logic is in there is likely going, "WTF is this guy doing?!"

As of now, I can say I do miss having an MT. I really do like this AT very much. But, I keep thinking it would be more fun with an MT.
I can't call it a "regret", just a longing, as this AT is still new to me.

What about you?
What are your experiences with coming from mainly MT cars to this sport AT? You like it? How do you drive it, mode/s?
Is it running smooth?
Quirks about it?
Do you miss having an MT?
Etc...?

[justinnum1]

Sometimes i regret not getting manual, but i enjoy the ZF8 very much.

[Seagull]

Thanks for the review.

This is going through my head too, before I order my car. I do notice that part of the fun of driving is rev-matching and that connection with the car. I'm not saying that I'm a good manual driver and can heel toe like nobody's business - I'm more than 100% sure that the auto is way faster and consistent than I will every be, even while daily driving. I'm only worried about how engaging the car will be. Well, that's not the only worry. If the power pack comes out for this, then, I would assume that it would be similar for the e90, and the AT gets slightly more power. But this is probably not much of a delta.

So my question to you would be what do you miss about the MT? Does the AT engage you to the same level, but in a different way?

[fshubert]

Had a manual before the '09 335i and went with the AT and also drove in MT mode all the time. Missed the "real" MT and for the new 2013 F30 I got the 6-speed. I'm back in heaven.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Seagull

Does the AT engage you to the same level, but in a different way?

For me, no, the AT is not as engaging; it asks nothing of the driver. You can play with it as a toy, but this has little in common with driving an MT. The AT is a nice transmission however and I do not regret the choice as I fully knew what I was buying.

Besides, I figure I should own one AT in my lifetime. I do not know whether I will buy another.

[NISFAN]

I started a thread in the UK section on exactly the same topic. Like you, all but one of my 15 cars have been MT, and I have never been tempted by 'lottery / slush boxes'.
I enjoy driving, and auto's just remove such an important dimension of the whole driving experience. I'm not talking cruising on the motorway, or bimbling along in traffic, but a spirited drive with bends and sharp corners....the very reason you would buy something like a BMW in the first place.

Anyway, my car of choice (dictated by the business miles I have to drive) is the 330D, which is only available in 8AT. On a test drive I was really impressed with the auto option, it is so much more like a DSG than the older versions of AT boxes (and even the current Mercedes 7G+ box).

I have bitten the bullet and ordered the 330D with 8AT.......hope I don't regret going for the 328i with manual box, which was my second choice.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by Elk

For me, no, the AT is not as engaging; it asks nothing of the driver. You can play with it as a toy, but this has little in common with driving an MT. The AT is a nice transmission however and I do not regret the choice as I fully knew what I was buying.

Besides, I figure I should own one AT in my lifetime. I do not know whether I will buy another.

Thats a good point though - expectation setting is important. Gotta think about what I'm okay with.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I started a thread in the UK section on exactly the same topic. Like you, all but one of my 15 cars have been MT, and I have never been tempted by 'lottery / slush boxes'.
I enjoy driving, and auto's just remove such an important dimension of the whole driving experience. I'm not talking cruising on the motorway, or bimbling along in traffic, but a spirited drive with bends and sharp corners....the very reason you would buy something like a BMW in the first place.

What you state here is the core point of my decision making. All other points in my mind are trying to gang up and defeat this.... I'm still weighing...

Thanks for the input.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by fshubert

Had a manual before the '09 335i and went with the AT and also drove in MT mode all the time. Missed the "real" MT and for the new 2013 F30 I got the 6-speed. I'm back in heaven.

Okay so counter point here ( actually a question ), what do you miss about AT? Anything? I keep thinking that I'll have to lend my car or have a friend drive it on a leg of a trip, but in all my years of driving MT, it has never happenned. Even if a friend could drive MT, they're too intimidated by the BMW etc..

[rjberry]

I was pretty set on getting an AT this time but then I took the test drive. Although it's a great car to drive with an AT, for me it lacked the extra engagement that comes with the MT.

I don't know what it was but I just missed the feel of that clutch pedal. I missed being able to find that biting point and keeping the car finely balanced ready for launch. I missed the input that was required of me to get the car round the bends and letting it rev a little higher just to get a bit more out of it. The AT just seemed a bit too sensible perhaps.

Maybe one day I'll be able to take that extra bit of engagement away and just enjoy the laid back refinement, but not just yet

[SPACEMANRICK]

I have had 20 years of driving manual transmission cars, with the last 3 being a 2002 330xi, 2006 330i, and currently a 2008 335xi. My next car arriving in October will be a 2013 335xdrive with 8 speed auto, I would have never considered a BMW automatic before the current 8 speed with paddle shifters. The smooth shifting of the 8 speed, improved gas mileage, and faster acceleration were some of the selling points for me of the 8 speed auto. I also loved the burble of the exhaust when I downshifted with the paddles on the 335 engine.

I am enjoying my last few weeks with my 6 speed manual and I am not totally sure if I made the right choice but I thought that the different driving modes with the different gear change shift points also matched up better with the 8 speed auto. I also hope that the paddle shifters and manual shifter options are close enough to the manual gear box when I want to control the gear shifts myself.

Hopefully over the next few months I will feel like I made the right choice

[NISFAN]

Same boat as me, although I didn't have the choice if I wanted the 330D. Hope we both are impressed with the 8AT

[Alpine F31]

For the record, I'm like most here- MT guy to the heart. I learned to drive in a manual!

I posted this in another thread but it applies here 100%.

... the "experience" I have when I use the manual mode of my 8 AT is exhilarating to say the least. The way the car accelerates and bangs through the gears is unlike any manual I've driven.

For anyone that's raced motorcycles and has experienced clutchless upshifts- that is the closest comparison I can make to the 8 AT. It's brilliant.

No, it's not the same as a 3 pedal car. Yes, a real manual requires skill to master, but the 8 AT is no less fun, and that is the difference between it and a typical "slush box".

Bottom line, I love my 8AT, but I still have a 5MT in the driveway when I just have to shift!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Seagull

Thanks for the review.

This is going through my head too, before I order my car. I do notice that part of the fun of driving is rev-matching and that connection with the car. I'm not saying that I'm a good manual driver and can heel toe like nobody's business - I'm more than 100% sure that the auto is way faster and consistent than I will every be, even while daily driving. I'm only worried about how engaging the car will be. Well, that's not the only worry. If the power pack comes out for this, then, I would assume that it would be similar for the e90, and the AT gets slightly more power. But this is probably not much of a delta.

So my question to you would be what do you miss about the MT? Does the AT engage you to the same level, but in a different way?

The AT is engaging in it's own way. But, for the driving experience the two transmissions can't really be compared in regards to how their used. The biggest benefit is the obvious one, when driving my daily commute it's nice to put it in "auto" and let it do it's thing. The sport AT really becomes fun when driving on twisty roads at higher speeds. It's a lot of fun to use the paddles or lever to make the shifts, and up or down the shifts are very fast and very smooth, keeping the chassis steady.

When I made my decision I went in knowing that the AT was not a replacement for an MT, and I didn't expect the experience to be the same.
I really wanted to try it though as it's an amazing piece of engineering as auto transmissions go. Since I change cars every 3yrs I figured why not. It would give me insight and real experience by which to compare an MT to a very modern AT.

There are things I miss about MT. With MT you can select the gear you want directly by putting the lever in that gears gate. With the AT you have to see the gear you are in and know how many times to pull the paddle or push the lever for a downshift. With a manual, you approach the corner, brake to the speed you need, rev match to the gear, and directly engage that gear.
The sport AT can do this faster, but sometimes it feels that I could do it smoother with an MT as I can put it in the exact gear I want.

A very cool thing the sport AT can do is 'skip' gears on multi gear downshifts, which is something even dual clutch AT's can't do.
When in say 6th gear and I'm coming to a 90 degree turn, I push the lever or pull the paddle 4 times to get 2nd, the trans will do it in 2 shifts instead of 4, very cool.

The biggest thing I miss is stopping smoothly with an MT.
MT allows you to control slowing down better, as you can coast to the stop, push the clutch pedal in and smoothly come to a stop. The AT coasts for a bit, but then it has to downshift as you're coming to the stop and you feel the little tugs as it does it. As you come to a complete stop, the trans is still connected via the torque converter so there is always some pull, so as you come to the stop it ends with the cars momentum compressing the front shocks, not so smooth.

I also like controlling how much power I want when taking off with an MT.
I can give it more revs or less depending on how hard I want to take off.
With the AT you can't. If you want a slow take off it works fine, but if you want a harder launch you have to give it more throttle, but it doesn't feel the same, as the AT has to build torque as revs climb, whereas with the MT you can build the revs before you take off.
The sport AT can do a hard fast launch, but you have to hold the brake give it throttle, hold throttle and let the brake go. It's fun, but not as natural as with the MT.

There are subtle things you can do with MT that you can't with AT.
Still the sport AT is an excellent automatic trans, the best I've ever driven.
The more I drive the more I'm getting accustomed to it and liking how it works.
Will I get AT/sport AT on my next car? I don't know. I am though thinking that I will go back to a MT. But I'll enjoy the AT during my time with it.
As I said, I don't regret getting the sport AT not at all. I just miss having a MT, as I'm so used to it.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by SPACEMANRICK

I have had 20 years of driving manual transmission cars, with the last 3 being a 2002 330xi, 2006 330i, and currently a 2008 335xi. My next car arriving in October will be a 2013 335xdrive with 8 speed auto, I would have never considered a BMW automatic before the current 8 speed with paddle shifters. The smooth shifting of the 8 speed, improved gas mileage, and faster acceleration were some of the selling points for me of the 8 speed auto. I also loved the burble of the exhaust when I downshifted with the paddles on the 335 engine.

I am enjoying my last few weeks with my 6 speed manual and I am not totally sure if I made the right choice but I thought that the different driving modes with the different gear change shift points also matched up better with the 8 speed auto. I also hope that the paddle shifters and manual shifter options are close enough to the manual gear box when I want to control the gear shifts myself.

Hopefully over the next few months I will feel like I made the right choice

If you go in with the expectation that it will be like a manual, it won't be.
If you go in expecting to enjoy the advanced technology of this trans and how it does it's thing better than any other AT, you should enjoy it.

Manual mode is way ahead of other AT's in the past. Response is nearly instant. Hard/fast acceleration is an eye opener when in sport mode or manual mode. The engine just pulls continuously as the shifts click off with no interruption on acceleration.
I'm pretty quick with my shifts, but this trans is faster and superb for fast accel as it's continuously connected to the engine via the torque converter, which goes into 'lock' mode very quickly and low mph and low rpm. It's one of it's major design features.

The overrun burble on up shifts is sweet.
In regular comfort mode, you don't get the burble as the trans shifts differently in that mode. But in sport of manual mode the burble is there and it's sounds really cool. I got to drive a 335i with the sport exhaust and the burble on that one was noticeably louder, very nice sound.

[Seagull]

That was very informative RPM90. Thanks for the long write up! Definitely good points for me to consider and at how to look at things...

[Bama335]

After driving manuals since I got my license, I went with the 6AT on my 2007 E90 335 - it was a great transmission, the best auto I had driven to that point. I've driven the 8AT and it's even better.

That said, I still missed that 3rd pedal, and went with 6MT in the 2009, and again with the 2013 MSport 335 I just ordered.

If I was to get another autobox, my choice would be the DCT. Shift times are amazingly fast, and there's no torque converter - but you can still trip it up in some daily driving situations. Sadly, I'm not sure I see them using DCT much going forward now that the 8AT is available and getting rave reviews.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by RPM90

If you go in with the expectation that it will be like a manual, it won't be.
If you go in expecting to enjoy the advanced technology of this trans and how it does it's thing better than any other AT, you should enjoy it.

Manual mode is way ahead of other AT's in the past. Response is nearly instant. Hard/fast acceleration is an eye opener when in sport mode or manual mode. The engine just pulls continuously as the shifts click off with no interruption on acceleration.
I'm pretty quick with my shifts, but this trans is faster and superb for fast accel as it's continuously connected to the engine via the torque converter, which goes into 'lock' mode very quickly and low mph and low rpm. It's one of it's major design features.

The overrun burble on up shifts is sweet.
In regular comfort mode, you don't get the burble as the trans shifts differently in that mode. But in sport of manual mode the burble is there and it's sounds really cool. I got to drive a 335i with the sport exhaust and the burble on that one was noticeably louder, very nice sound.

sport exhaust?

[Jadar]

Im pretty much in the same boat as you. Been a manual driver all my life, but chose the auto this time for various reasons. I feel the same way, it does not replace that feel of the manual or that full control you have, but this trans can be quite fun. I love downshifting in an on ramp and stopmping on it a bit it makes me .

I do miss manual, however not so much that I regret my descision, but enough to the point where I know Ill have another car with a stick. Maybe next year Ill have something sitting next to the 335i in the garage. I was thinking about searching for a e46 manual, but finding one in good shape is going to be a big task.

p.s. congrats on getting the car, ill have to see it one day.

[bacampbe]

Our 328i is the 11th car I've owned, and the first auto. It's primarily my wife's car, but she's also mostly driven manuals prior to this one. She loves it. (She's been having some knee problems, and is mostly happy to lose the clutch.) As far as I can tell, it's actually better than the Audi/VW 6 speed DSG we test drove several years back.

I personally have mixed feelings. In sport mode, it's pretty much brilliant. I can't out shift it. I've been trying to teach myself to use it in manual mode, but that's a slow process. I learned to drive on high rev-ing, naturally-aspirated Japanese cars with 5 or 6 gears (3 Integras + a TSX, 4 Miatas). 8 gears that are so incredibly close together paired a turbo engine with an extremely flat torque curve makes for some shifting dilemmas. Most of the time, it seems like any 3 gears would work. I keep forgetting to downshift, because half the time it just doesn't seem to matter.

If I were replacing my daily driver, I would be on the fence between the ZF8 and the manual. For my wife's car that I get to drive sometimes, it's the perfect compromise.

[TonyS]

Originally Posted by rjberry

I was pretty set on getting an AT this time but then I took the test drive. Although it's a great car to drive with an AT, for me it lacked the extra engagement that comes with the MT.

I don't know what it was but I just missed the feel of that clutch pedal. I missed being able to find that biting point and keeping the car finely balanced ready for launch. I missed the input that was required of me to get the car round the bends and letting it rev a little higher just to get a bit more out of it. The AT just seemed a bit too sensible perhaps.

Maybe one day I'll be able to take that extra bit of engagement away and just enjoy the laid back refinement, but not just yet

I could have written those very words. Although the 8AT is the best auto I've driven, it just made the whole car uninvolving. Having had my 335i for a week now I'm so glad I went with the 6MT in the end.

[Robin_NL]

This is a very interesting thread.

All my former cars were manuals. (22 years of MT driving) Except my former '10 F10 535i Sport 8AT.( The same ZF box we are discussing here).

It's great for such a big 5 series and when I see the dashboard vids of the 8AT 328/335 I sometimes think it would better not having changed to the 6MT again. So fast upshifting, more or less impossible for a human. It's also less involving. For about 30% or even more....imo.

The OP also mentioned the benefits of the 6MT. And I 100% agree with him.

Only in traffic jams I'd miss the 8AT and its easiness. Happily that doesn't occur often. And that's about it.

Cheers
Robin