[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Hmm, so this is odd. I have two sets of 1609 pads. One is the street compound the other is the track. The track compound was a little short. Probably for 340mm rotors based on eyeball. However, the street compound pads are definitely for 370mm. I just looked and there's no sign of rust on the contact surface area of the rotor.

Attached is a pic of the race compound pad installed. I'm assuming this is for the 340mm rotor.

Wow, that's not cool... But that's definitely not 30mm. 30mm is a little more than an inch so that area that isn't being touched by a pad would have to be a little over half an inch.

[oceanview]

Just looked at the BMW online parts cataloge.

The 335i Standard front rotor (340mm) and the 18" M Performance Brake front rotor (370mm) seem to have the same original replacement brake pads
Part #: 34 11 6 859 066

But....
The M Sport Brake front rotor (370mm) (S2NHA Option) has a different replacement brake pad.
Part #: 34 11 6 865 460

That's quite strange, as one could upgrade the 370mm M Sport Brake front rotor with the M Performace Brake rotor.
Am I missunderstanding something here?


P.S. I made a thread a while ago about the different brake setups.
Brakes buying decision helper: "Factory", "M Sport Brakes", "M Performance Brakes"

[mikew2069]

Man this whole brake deal is like an elusive purple unicorn...

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by oceanview

Just looked at the BMW online parts cataloge.

The 335i Standard front rotor (340mm) and the 18" M Performance Brake front rotor (370mm) seem to have the same original replacement brake pads
Part #: 34 11 6 859 066

But....
The M Sport Brake front rotor (370mm) (S2NHA Option) has a different replacement brake pad.
Part #: 34 11 6 865 460

That's quite strange, as one could upgrade the 370mm M Sport Brake front rotor with the M Performace Brake rotor.
Am I missunderstanding something here?


P.S. I made a thread a while ago about the different brake setups.
Brakes buying decision helper: "Factory", "M Sport Brakes", "M Performance Brakes"

That makes absolutely no sense. I can understand msport being different due to a possibly different compound. However, 240's fitting a 270 seems to defy math. Maybe the contact area is the same, but the hats are thicker? I.e. it's more of an appearance thing.

[shivaswrath]

the pad material is def different between the standard 340 and 370 M Perf option...I've tracked both, and cooked the 340 pads while the 370s did fine.

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by oceanview

Just looked at the BMW online parts cataloge.

The 335i Standard front rotor (340mm) and the 18" M Performance Brake front rotor (370mm) seem to have the same original replacement brake pads
Part #: 34 11 6 859 066

But....
The M Sport Brake front rotor (370mm) (S2NHA Option) has a different replacement brake pad.
Part #: 34 11 6 865 460

That's quite strange, as one could upgrade the 370mm M Sport Brake front rotor with the M Performace Brake rotor.
Am I missunderstanding something here?


P.S. I made a thread a while ago about the different brake setups.
Brakes buying decision helper: "Factory", "M Sport Brakes", "M Performance Brakes"

So what does this mean? The M performance brake kit came with 335i pads, but the M sport brake upgrade comes with special pads?

edit: Or does this mean the calipers are different?

[ronin951]

FWIW, here are the mounted m-performance pads vs the ones I got from Porterfield. Porterfield is saying they are for 240's, but they seem to fill the 270's.

Note: When installed, only the banana part fills it out the contact surface. Otherwise there would be some area with no pad contact. 1/2"+...not sure.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ronin951

FWIW, here are the mounted m-performance pads vs the ones I got from Porterfield. Porterfield is saying they are for 240's, but they seem to fill the 270's.

Note: When installed, only the banana part fills it out the contact surface. Otherwise there would be some area with no pad contact. 1/2"+...not sure.

Ronin, the top pic is the Porterfield pad, and the bottom is the OEM M Performance pad?

Looks like there's a little extra room in there, but maybe that is how they're intended to fit the caliper for the 370mm rotor? Are they the same size as your Porterfield street version?

I'd like to order a set of track pads - you still think these are the best way to go at the moment?

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

Ronin, the top pic is the Porterfield pad, and the bottom is the OEM M Performance pad?

Looks like there's a little extra room in there, but maybe that is how they're intended to fit the caliper for the 370mm rotor? Are they the same size as your Porterfield street version?

I'd like to order a set of track pads - you still think these are the best way to go at the moment?

The top is their street compound. Bottom OE. The track compound pads I also bought are a different shape (sorry no pre-install pics). They are more square like stock. I'm not sure why the difference. The other interesting thing is that the track compound pads didn't contact the whole rotor contact patch. They were about 5mm shorter on the hub side. On the rotor edge side they aligned. Below is a pic of what they looked like installed. Trust me when I say that little bit made absolutely no difference. They bit hard...almost too hard for my tastes.



http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=21 might be of interest to you. It's kinda my experience with various setups.

Honestly I'd strongly caution against using their track compound in the front without doing something in the rear. I know it's pretty common to run a race pad in front and leave OE in the rear for track days. However, because their track compound is so aggressive, it's almost too much in the front. For me the rear seemed to become unstable. My e46 setup was carbotech front (can't remember the compound) and OE rear. That worked great. These are a whole different ballgame. On the street with cold pads I could with little effort lock the brakes up. A buddy told me it's the same compound stock cars use, so I think it's less about progression.

That said, all of my 'tests' have been on street tires. If I had some r-comp's on I would probably at the very least use their street compound in the rear.

One last word of warning. For some reason I had a lot of vibration using their race pads. I actually thought my front rotors were warped. I never figured out what it was, but the backing plates were a little different (more bare bones with no handles). The holes for the pad pins were oval instead of circular. I theorize the pad may have been shifting, but thats pure speculation.

Is it the best option? I think it may be the only option for M-performance. Most especially the rears. This is the only vendor I've see that makes the pads for the 2pot rears. I've seen a low dust solution (can't remember the brand), but I think that's mainly for low temp/OE applications. I saw a set of custom carbotech's a member had made (might be in the FS forum), but I'm not sure the details there.

Man this post turned out much longer than intended lol.

[DVC]

Thanks @ronin951 - a lot of good info...

So it sounds like the OE pads are fairly solid, but will start to fade at the end of a punishing track day... not good

The Porterfield pads are strong and robust, but maybe a bit too aggressive. And they tend to induce some vibration, potentially due to the way the pads attach.
When you ran the Porterfield pads front and rear, did all the brake bias and front lock-up issues (that you experienced with OE rear pads previously) go away? How did you like the feel overall?

Lastly, do you know if Porterfield has another compound that would be slightly more progressive? (Can you share your contact info for Porterfield?)

Thanks again for your help!

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

Thanks @ronin951 - a lot of good info...

So it sounds like the OE pads are fairly solid, but will start to fade at the end of a punishing track day... not good

The Porterfield pads are strong and robust, but maybe a bit too aggressive. And they tend to induce some vibration, potentially due to the way the pads attach.
When you ran the Porterfield pads front and rear, did all the brake bias and front lock-up issues (that you experienced with OE rear pads previously) go away? How did you like the feel overall?

Lastly, do you know if Porterfield has another compound that would be slightly more progressive? (Can you share your contact info for Porterfield?)

Thanks again for your help!

That pretty much sums it up. Though I'm extremely happy with their street compound front and rear. Even with street font and oe rear there were IMO bias issues on the street, but only minor. Once I got the rear's (street comp) in things were/are perfect. At this point I have nothing to complain about and drive with them every day. Yes, progression issue is gone.

So, the only unknown is how the street compound will hold up with stickier tires, which I think you have.

Send me a PM and i'll get you a direct contact. I don't want to put info here. Same for anyone else too.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by ronin951

That pretty much sums it up. Though I'm extremely happy with their street compound front and rear. Even with street font and oe rear there were IMO bias issues on the street, but only minor. Once I got the rear's (street comp) in things were/are perfect. At this point I have nothing to complain about and drive with them every day. Yes, progression issue is gone.

So, the only unknown is how the street compound will hold up with stickier tires, which I think you have.

Send me a PM and i'll get you a direct contact. I don't want to put info here. Same for anyone else too.

If your running their pads, you should send them your stock mperf pads so they can make them perfect .... I'd buy a low dusk set of street pads in a heartbeat.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ronin951

So, the only unknown is how the street compound will hold up with stickier tires, which I think you have.

At the moment I'm on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3s, so not too sticky. Do you think the street compound is track-worthy? Or maybe something in between street and race would be perfect...

The only other concern I had was your warning about vibration. Was this only with the race compound pads, or is this just inherent to their backing plate/pin hole design on all their pads?

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

At the moment I'm on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3s, so not too sticky. Do you think the street compound is track-worthy? Or maybe something in between street and race would be perfect...

The only other concern I had was your warning about vibration. Was this only with the race compound pads, or is this just inherent to their backing plate/pin hole design on all their pads?

Vibration was only with the race compound. Street is

You should be just fine on track with r4-s (street). Sebring is pretty hard on brakes..well pretty much everything. They did great. I think they use 'street' loosly from a heat perspective. Iirc they have a compound comparison chart on their site.

Side note...if you want a compound from another manufacturer they can do that too.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by mikew2069

If your running their pads, you should send them your stock mperf pads so they can make them perfect .... I'd buy a low dusk set of street pads in a heartbeat.

Hey man i did my part still out a nib set of oe rears. If you need a donor though i can help you out.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Hey man i did my part still out a nib set of oe rears. If you need a donor though i can help you out.

So you sent in nib Mperf rear pads and just used what they had for the fronts?

[DVC]

@ronin951 - thanks for all your help with letting us know about Porterfield, and your feedback on what you have tested out so far. I contacted them today, and got some good info:

They have definitive measurements for the rear pads (no doubt thanks to you sending in your OE rear pad as a template!), so no worries there

They don't have definitive measurements for the front pads on file, and she wasn't positive if the sizing was just right for the M Performance brakes (or M-Sport brake option, which are the same). I want to do a bit more research with this before ordering, and maybe send them an OE front pad to double check, and use as a template if necessary

The compounds she mentioned were:

• Raybestos ST43 Race (I believe these are the race pads you got), which is the most aggressive, with a friction rate of .58-.60, and a temp rating of 1600deg
• Porterfield R4 Race, which is still a race compound, but a little less aggressive at .50 friction rating and 1200deg temp rating
• Porterfield R4S (I believe these are the street pads you got), which for a street compound is still pretty solid, with a .40 friction rating (OE are likely about .20-.30)

So I'm leaning toward getting the R4 race compound once I get definitive info on the front pad size.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by DVC

@ronin951 - thanks for all your help with letting us know about Porterfield, and your feedback on what you have tested out so far. I contacted them today, and got some good info:

They have definitive measurements for the rear pads (no doubt thanks to you sending in your OE rear pad as a template!), so no worries there

They don't have definitive measurements for the front pads on file, and she wasn't positive if the sizing was just right for the M Performance brakes (or M-Sport brake option, which are the same). I want to do a bit more research with this before ordering, and maybe send them an OE front pad to double check, and use as a template if necessary

The compounds she mentioned were:

• Raybestos ST43 Race (I believe these are the race pads you got), which is the most aggressive, with a friction rate of .58-.60, and a temp rating of 1600deg
• Porterfield R4 Race, which is still a race compound, but a little less aggressive at .50 friction rating and 1200deg temp rating
• Porterfield R4S (I believe these are the street pads you got), which for a street compound is still pretty solid, with a .40 friction rating (OE are likely about .20-.30)

So I'm leaning toward getting the R4 race compound once I get definitive info on the front pad size.

Keep me posted if you nail down the size! I'm in for a set of the street pads.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

@ronin951 - thanks for all your help with letting us know about Porterfield, and your feedback on what you have tested out so far. I contacted them today, and got some good info:

They have definitive measurements for the rear pads (no doubt thanks to you sending in your OE rear pad as a template!), so no worries there

They don't have definitive measurements for the front pads on file, and she wasn't positive if the sizing was just right for the M Performance brakes (or M-Sport brake option, which are the same). I want to do a bit more research with this before ordering, and maybe send them an OE front pad to double check, and use as a template if necessary

The compounds she mentioned were:

• Raybestos ST43 Race (I believe these are the race pads you got), which is the most aggressive, with a friction rate of .58-.60, and a temp rating of 1600deg
• Porterfield R4 Race, which is still a race compound, but a little less aggressive at .50 friction rating and 1200deg temp rating
• Porterfield R4S (I believe these are the street pads you got), which for a street compound is still pretty solid, with a .40 friction rating (OE are likely about .20-.30)

So I'm leaning toward getting the R4 race compound once I get definitive info on the front pad size.

Glad you were able to nail this down. I had forgotten they had the 3 compounds. The track/race compound I used was ST43. That probably explains a lot of my issue. The ones I run now are R4S. If I end up getting r-comp's I'll probably pick up a set of R4's, but I haven't had any issues with fading, so I'll probably stick with R4S. At this point it's really my tires that end up at the limit.

As for my original order. I initially asked for standard F30 335 front pads. I was under the mis-understanding that they were identical. What I didn't account for was the rotor size difference. 240mm is stock correct? Somehow these mostly-fill the 270mm rotors. The ST43's was off a little and the R4-S sorta fits due to the banana shape. I just realized I need to post a pic similar to above with R4-S installed. Will do tomorrow.

If you reverse lookup the P/N in my OP you should be able to tell what they sent. I actually feel a little bad for them because of all the different brake combo's. I mean I can hardly keep it straight lol.

If you guys need me to take one for the team and ship them a pad I will. So long as I get it back

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ronin951

If you guys need me to take one for the team and ship them a pad I will. So long as I get it back

If you wouldn't mind sending them one of your front OE M Performance pads for a template... I would be MOST appreciative!!

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

If you wouldn't mind sending them one of your front OE M Performance pads for a template... I would be MOST appreciative!!

Will do. You put a lot of effort in that thread about the different modes, so I owe you one anyways

BTW, got curious and just googled this up


Brake Discs/Pads Reviews...

VWVortex - Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST


Ferodo DS2500 0.5cf MAX
Ferodo DS3000 0.62cf MAX
Mintex M1144 0.45cf
GreenStuff 0.48cf cold, 0.52cf at 175C, 0.4cf at 500C
RedStuff 0.4cf
YellowStuff 0.46cf
TarOx .112 0.35cf, 0.38cf MAX
TarOx .113 0.35cf, 0.40cf MAX
TarOx .114 0.43cf, 0.47cf MAX
Red Dot XF 0.39cf

Pagid Black......0.36 cold, 0.38 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.45 MAX
Pagid Blue........0.4 cold, 0.42 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.46 MAX
Pagid Orange....0.39 cold, 0.40 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.49 MAX
Pagid Black......0.44 cold, 0.47 @ 100C, 0.49 @ 300C, 0.54 MAX
Pagid Grey.......0.50 cold, 0.54 @ 100C, 0.57 @ 300C, 0.62 MAX
Pagid Yellow.....0.40 cold, 0.43 @ 100C, 0.47 @ 300C, 0.49 MAX

Hopefully it's accurate.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Will do. You put a lot of effort in that thread about the different modes, so I owe you one anyways

Thanks Ronin!!! I owe you one, big time...

Originally Posted by ronin951

BTW, got curious and just googled this up


Brake Discs/Pads Reviews...

VWVortex - Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST


Ferodo DS2500 0.5cf MAX
Ferodo DS3000 0.62cf MAX
Mintex M1144 0.45cf
GreenStuff 0.48cf cold, 0.52cf at 175C, 0.4cf at 500C
RedStuff 0.4cf
YellowStuff 0.46cf
TarOx .112 0.35cf, 0.38cf MAX
TarOx .113 0.35cf, 0.40cf MAX
TarOx .114 0.43cf, 0.47cf MAX
Red Dot XF 0.39cf

Pagid Black......0.36 cold, 0.38 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.45 MAX
Pagid Blue........0.4 cold, 0.42 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.46 MAX
Pagid Orange....0.39 cold, 0.40 @ 100C, 0.43 @ 300C, 0.49 MAX
Pagid Black......0.44 cold, 0.47 @ 100C, 0.49 @ 300C, 0.54 MAX
Pagid Grey.......0.50 cold, 0.54 @ 100C, 0.57 @ 300C, 0.62 MAX
Pagid Yellow.....0.40 cold, 0.43 @ 100C, 0.47 @ 300C, 0.49 MAX

Hopefully it's accurate.

This is great to know for context of the Porterfield pads. Looks like the ST143 pads are on the extreme end, and the R4 pads are slightly less so... I think that's what I'll try first.