[bluemark81]

....in fact, our cars probably are Honda's with a BMW body!

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

....in fact, our cars probably are Honda's with a BMW body!

At least they will be reliable!
Strange that BMW treat the Canadian market as if it was a poverty one.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by F30AM

At least they will be relaible!
Strange that BMW treat the Canadian market as if it was a poverty one.

I think it is BMW Canada, but not sure how they decide such things. All I know is it sucks. Many here end up buying from the US, but then you have no Canadian warranty, so a bit of risk involved. We do get many used US car because of the features they can get as well.

[bluemark81]

....anyway, back on topic. My wind noise was another option the Canadian consumers were forced to take.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Did you not test drive the car before making your purchasing mistake? In your case you would have saved a lot of money and bought a Honda instead and thereby been less disappointed. Was your previous BMW an xDrive?


.

This is my 3rd BMW.
1st was a 2003 E46 325i w/sport MT, then 2009 135i MT, now 2013 335i AT.
In between was a 2006 A4 quattro w/sport MT.
I did test drive quite a few F30's 328i w/sport and non sport, 335i sport AT's.
Test drives can not give you a full appreciation for how one will like the car over time. When test driving all we can do is assess the over all aspects of the car. Ownership then gives you the details and nitpicks.

For me the 328i sport with AT was the best balanced in term of ride and handling. The AT is sublime, excellent performance and the best AT I've every driven, and that's why I decided to try it out as I am an MT driver mostly. The non sport models are too soft for me and even with previous generations of 3's the non sport models were too soft for the driver who wants better handling and control while been smoothest ride quality down on the list.
19" wheel/tire combinations resulted in too harsh of a ride when combined with the sport suspension, at least in my area.
I decided on the 335i as I prefer the inline 6 3.0. The 2.0T is a fantastic engine and impressively so for it's size with plenty of off the line and passing torque, and it's quite smooth over all. 2.0/N20 at idle isn't great sounding, but once under way it's one of the smoothest 2.0's in the auto world.
For me it came down to engine smoothness and power.
The 335i Msport w/AT fit my wants and needs.

After owning it for a while I too feel it's too soft mainly due to the soft sport suspension. I have the M adaptive suspension w/VSS. The adaptive dampers give the ride more compliance over various roads, but it's no firmer than the standard sport suspension when set to sport.
The reviews have been correct and I agree with them, this is a very competent 3 series, but it's also softer and doesn't have the same "connected" to the driver feel. The steering offers near zero feel, it's the primary reason for the disconnected feel, and it gives me the feeling that the car doesn't respond as quickly as previous 3's. Combine that with the under sprung and under-damped sport suspension and you've got a 3 series that has lost enough of the 3's former "magic" such that many owners notice and most reviewers have to report on it.

The test drives did hint at this and I did notice it. Still, when compared to other cars I test drove, the F30 still gave me what a BMW 3 series is famous for. The ATS was out yet so I couldn't compare it, and the new Lexus IS wasn't out either. I didn't want a C class MB so I didn't bother. On hindsight maybe I should have tested a C350 sport.

I've described the "loudness" issue in other threads. My 335i and other F30's I've driven are really loud once moving. I expected my 335i to be quieter than my 135i, but it's not. There is too much tire and road noise getting into the cabin. My 335i doesn't have much issue with wind noise, but there is too much over all sound/noise that gets into the cabin while driving.
I'm sure part if not most of that sound level is due to BMW trying to keep the weight down. They decided to use more steel and less aluminum in the suspension and handling parts, and since the car is also larger than before one way to keep the weight down is to reduce sound damping. I think that's another area where BMW failed. I'd gladly take on 80-100 more pounds for better sounding damping and thicker windows.

After driving my 335i Msport I am still happy with it. But I can honestly say that if BMW doesn't address the steering and sport suspension, and over all lack of quietness, then I won't be getting back into a 3 series 2.5 yrs from now. I'm hoping far a new 2 series and more so a 2 series based sport sedan.

The F30 is still a fantastic sport sedan, but it's not as fantastic in some areas as some former 3 series generations. And, compared to the current competition the 3 series doesn't enjoy the excellence margin it once enjoyed over them. In fact, in some comparison tests the F30 has no margin of excellence over the competition.
That should speak VERY loudly to BMW.
But, since BMW is enjoying great F30 sales then they may not care in the short run. However, people like me who lease every 3yrs will have something to say veyr soon when we shop for our next automobile.
Leaser's are at least 50% of new BMW buyers in the US.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by RPM90

This is my 3rd BMW.
1st was a 2003 E46 325i w/sport MT, then 2009 135i MT, now 2013 335i AT.
In between was a 2006 A4 quattro w/sport MT.
I did test drive quite a few F30's 328i w/sport and non sport, 335i sport AT's.
Test drives can not give you a full appreciation for how one will like the car over time. When test driving all we can do is assess the over all aspects of the car. Ownership then gives you the details and nitpicks.

For me the 328i sport with AT was the best balanced in term of ride and handling. The AT is sublime, excellent performance and the best AT I've every driven, and that's why I decided to try it out as I am an MT driver mostly. The non sport models are too soft for me and even with previous generations of 3's the non sport models were too soft for the driver who wants better handling and control while been smoothest ride quality down on the list.
19" wheel/tire combinations resulted in too harsh of a ride when combined with the sport suspension, at least in my area.
I decided on the 335i as I prefer the inline 6 3.0. The 2.0T is a fantastic engine and impressively so for it's size with plenty of off the line and passing torque, and it's quite smooth over all. 2.0/N20 at idle isn't great sounding, but once under way it's one of the smoothest 2.0's in the auto world.
For me it came down to engine smoothness and power.
The 335i Msport w/AT fit my wants and needs.

After owning it for a while I too feel it's too soft mainly due to the soft sport suspension. I have the M adaptive suspension w/VSS. The adaptive dampers give the ride more compliance over various roads, but it's no firmer than the standard sport suspension when set to sport.
The reviews have been correct and I agree with them, this is a very competent 3 series, but it's also softer and doesn't have the same "connected" to the driver feel. The steering offers near zero feel, it's the primary reason for the disconnected feel, and it gives me the feeling that the car doesn't respond as quickly as previous 3's. Combine that with the under sprung and under-damped sport suspension and you've got a 3 series that has lost enough of the 3's former "magic" such that many owners notice and most reviewers have to report on it.

The test drives did hint at this and I did notice it. Still, when compared to other cars I test drove, the F30 still gave me what a BMW 3 series is famous for. The ATS was out yet so I couldn't compare it, and the new Lexus IS wasn't out either. I didn't want a C class MB so I didn't bother. On hindsight maybe I should have tested a C350 sport.

I've described the "loudness" issue in other threads. My 335i and other F30's I've driven are really loud once moving. I expected my 335i to be quieter than my 135i, but it's not. There is too much tire and road noise getting into the cabin. My 335i doesn't have much issue with wind noise, but there is too much over all sound/noise that gets into the cabin while driving.
I'm sure part if not most of that sound level is due to BMW trying to keep the weight down. They decided to use more steel and less aluminum in the suspension and handling parts, and since the car is also larger than before one way to keep the weight down is to reduce sound damping. I think that's another area where BMW failed. I'd gladly take on 80-100 more pounds for better sounding damping and thicker windows.

After driving my 335i Msport I am still happy with it. But I can honestly say that if BMW doesn't address the steering and sport suspension, and over all lack of quietness, then I won't be getting back into a 3 series 2.5 yrs from now. I'm hoping far a new 2 series and more so a 2 series based sport sedan.

The F30 is still a fantastic sport sedan, but it's not as fantastic in some areas as some former 3 series generations. And, compared to the current competition the 3 series doesn't enjoy the excellence margin it once enjoyed over them. In fact, in some comparison tests the F30 has no margin of excellence over the competition.
That should speak VERY loudly to BMW.
But, since BMW is enjoying great F30 sales then they may not care in the short run. However, people like me who lease every 3yrs will have something to say veyr soon when we shop for our next automobile.
Leaser's are at least 50% of new BMW buyers in the US.

Much better said than me. You mentioned weight savings by switching to steel components though. Aluminum is stronger and lighter than steel, so the change to steel does not make sense. This will likely be my last bimmer as well unless they change a few things. Anyway, very good write-up. Pretty much bang on what I was attempting to explain in my much condensed babble.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Much better said than me. You mentioned weight savings by switching to steel components though. Aluminum is stronger and lighter than steel, so the change to steel does not make sense. This will likely be my last bimmer as well unless they change a few things. Anyway, very good write-up. Pretty much bang on what I was attempting to explain in my much condensed babble.

It is interesting that BMW chose to use steel in some areas that were aluminum in the E90.
Here is a good article describing the changes and differences.
Some changes are seen as positive and some just ask, "why?"

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648418

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

You mentioned weight savings by switching to steel components though. Aluminum is stronger and lighter than steel, so the change to steel does not make sense.

This is not universally true. It depends on the application.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

This is not universally true. It depends on the application.

Sorry, perhaps I should have elaborated. I realize i was generalizing as just stating aluminum vs steel is not very descriptive, as there are many properties to the various alloys that go into each including individual strengths. Heat treatments further affects the properties of each.

There has been a shift towards more use of aluminum in the auto industry as regulatory agencies pressure auto manufacturer's to increasingly stringent fuel efficiency standards by reducing weight. Two primary downfalls to aluminum is its raw material cost and fabrication costs. Another topic though.

Both steel and aluminum have their pros and cons. Certainly one pro of steel is that it has roughly twice the fatiguing factor of aluminum which certainly help chassis components.

Yield strength is a another particular property of interest. The stress at which a metal will permanently deform is referred to as its yield strength. Take that a little further until the metal breaks and it is referred to as its ultimate strength. For aluminum, the yield can range from 15,000 psi to 70,000 psi while the ultimate is 30,000 to 90,000 psi. For steel, the yield can be from 30,000 to 150,000 while the ultimate is 50,000 to 200,000. As can be seen, there is an overlap in these properties between aluminum and steel but in general, steel is stronger.

The benefit of aluminum though is it is 1/3 the weight of steel, but is "generally" 1/2 as strong. Therefore, the strength to weight ratio is higher for aluminum.

Hopefully, that adds a bit more depth to by earlier post.

[JK479]

From an E90 perceptive, has anyone compared decibels ? or maybe we just hear a little more because its the newer model to talk about.

You all have me concerned now!

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by JK479

From an E90 perceptive, has anyone compared decibels ? or maybe we just hear a little more because its the newer model to talk about.

You all have me concerned now!

I have and using a scosche spl1000, I measured around 93 db. In my e90' I was about 90. It varied a bit, but I believe these are close to what the average was. This was at 120 kph. Definitely noisier at highway speeds, although I do find it very quiet below 60 kph or in city driving.

[bluemark81]

I have an X128 (2013) as a loaner while they attempt to resolve my wind noise issues and it feels much more like my E90. It is actually a blast to drive. And, I don't know why, but the 4 sounds much better in it than it does in my F30. Anyone know if it maintained the hydraulic steering as it feels much better than the F30 with greater feedback. I am very surprised by it. Like it A LOT!

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by JK479

From an E90 perceptive, has anyone compared decibels ? or maybe we just hear a little more because its the newer model to talk about.

You all have me concerned now!

This link gives a good comparison between vehicles and either proves the instrument I used needs severe calibration or my car is truly noisier than it should be.

Www.auto-decibel-db.com

[bluemark81]

Fingers crossed: had a call from my dealer today. He indicated a recent TSB has been issued on the door seals. He said my salesman took my car for a drive and confirmed there was abnormally high wind noise levels compared to the other 3's on the lot as well as his own. They have ordered the seals and should be in within a couple of days. Hopefully that solves it!

[elusive]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I have and using a scosche spl1000, I measured around 93 db. In my e90' I was about 90. It varied a bit, but I believe these are close to what the average was. This was at 120 kph. Definitely noisier at highway speeds, although I do find it very quiet below 60 kph or in city driving.

Those dB readings are something an aftermarket exhaust would emit (not at idle). Try getting an app that measures decibels to compare.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Fingers crossed: had a call from my dealer today. He indicated a recent TSB has been issued on the door seals. He said my salesman took my car for a drive and confirmed there was abnormally high wind noise levels compared to the other 3's on the lot as well as his own. They have ordered the seals and should be in within a couple of days. Hopefully that solves it!

That would be amazing. Keep us posted!

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Fingers crossed: had a call from my dealer today. He indicated a recent TSB has been issued on the door seals. He said my salesman took my car for a drive and confirmed there was abnormally high wind noise levels compared to the other 3's on the lot as well as his own. They have ordered the seals and should be in within a couple of days. Hopefully that solves it!

If you can, please try to find out what the TSB number is so others can "remind" theirs dealers about it.

[metrathon]

Can please someone explain what this TSB represents? Is it like a recall, or a mandatory fix that the dealer has to perform? Is it free?

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Can please someone explain what this TSB represents? Is it like a recall, or a mandatory fix that the dealer has to perform? Is it free?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is not mandatory, but if the customer points out an issue that is related to the TSB, they have to fix the issue at no cost to the customer. if it is safety related, like a recall they must advise customers of the issue.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Can please someone explain what this TSB represents? Is it like a recall, or a mandatory fix that the dealer has to perform? Is it free?

I have e-mailed them the request. Will keep you posted.

[EJIB]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Can please someone explain what this TSB represents? Is it like a recall, or a mandatory fix that the dealer has to perform? Is it free?

+1; placed complaint mid 2012. Please keep us informed about TSB thanks

[F30.M]

I just noticed strange wind noise coming from the driver window when I drive my 335i at speed above 140km/h. There is also a strange vibration coming from the window frame nearby. Anyone experienced this problem?