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      01-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #199
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Be it "brand whores" or "passionate BMW owners", I think most posters here are missing the point: by introducing the 320i (which is essentially the same car as the 328i) for $4,300 less, BMW is offering solid evidence of what a profitable car the 328i F30 has been for them. Seriously? They can now offer the same car with a detuned engine for a whopping $4,300 less? Must be a lot of gravy in that 328i price structure...is it just a cooincidence BMW is having it's most profitable year ever? If I'd purchased a 328i at anywhere close to MSRP, I'd feel like BMW had taken me for a fool. Time to make the 3-series a loss-leader again - as it has been in the past.

I think it's wise for BMW to do this and the 320i will be a very successful model, but to me it really does beg the question: why bother with the 328i? The F30 328 with just a few options begins to enter what very recently was 5-series territory; the basic 3-er had gone way too upmarket with pricing, and this is the fix.
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      01-15-2013, 02:37 PM   #200
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This does not cheapen the brand and is consistent with the strategy for other BMW sedans.

F01: 740Li - $77,600 750Li - $90,500 760Ki - $140,700 = $63K spread

F10: 528i - $47,800 535i - $53,500 550i - $62,700 = $15K spread

F30: 320i - $33,445 2. 328i - $36,850 1. 335i - $43,150 = $10K spread

What a hilarious thread. Im glad I don't buy cars based on some of their owners
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      01-15-2013, 02:42 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradF View Post
Be it "brand whores" or "passionate BMW owners", I think most posters here are missing the point: by introducing the 320i (which is essentially the same car as the 328i) for $4,300 less, BMW is offering solid evidence of what a profitable car the 328i F30 has been for them. Seriously? They can now offer the same car with a detuned engine for a whopping $4,300 less? Must be a lot of gravy in that 328i price structure...is it just a cooincidence BMW is having it's most profitable year ever? If I'd purchased a 328i at anywhere close to MSRP, I'd feel like BMW had taken me for a fool. Time to make the 3-series a loss-leader again - as it has been in the past.

I think it's wise for BMW to do this and the 320i will be a very successful model, but to me it really does beg the question: why bother with the 328i? The F30 328 with just a few options begins to enter what very recently was 5-series territory; the basic 3-er had gone way too upmarket with pricing, and this is the fix.
SCOTT26 has been telling us for years that one of the main goals for the F30 architecture was to make the 3-series more profitable. With the 320i, we can definitely see the realization of this.

Also since BMW (in the US market at least) appears to be selling 328i to 335i at a ratio of 10:1, it also leads me to believe there is lots of profit in the 328i.
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      01-15-2013, 02:50 PM   #202
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This is stupid and gay at the same time. Why will I buy a car with a smaller engine to get pretty much the same MPG?
Really? What is this, fifth grade?

The reason you'd buy it is if you want to save money and the tuned 328 engine that's faster is not important to you. That's all.
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      01-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
SCOTT26 has been telling us for years that one of the main goals for the F30 architecture was to make the 3-series more profitable. With the 320i, we can definitely see the realization of this.

Also since BMW (in the US market at least) appears to be selling 328i to 335i at a ratio of 10:1, it also leads me to believe there is lots of profit in the 328i.
I suspect the 320i will outsell the 328i 3:1...majority of the women who purchase into the Roundel, do so FOR the Roundel -->320i will open that up, and BMW's Marginal cost for this engine is minimal and quickly recouped.

I like what they're doing with their market segmentation...
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      01-15-2013, 03:03 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
SCOTT26 has been telling us for years that one of the main goals for the F30 architecture was to make the 3-series more profitable. With the 320i, we can definitely see the realization of this.

Also since BMW (in the US market at least) appears to be selling 328i to 335i at a ratio of 10:1, it also leads me to believe there is lots of profit in the 328i.
And in the 335, as well. Take out the standard xenons/moonroof that are options on the 328 (and slightly bigger brakes of the 335), and all of these models are fundamentally the same car. The N55 is not a $4,000 premium over the 328 because of it's production costs or fabulous engineering - that is largely profit for BMW because they know that people will pay for it for various reasons.

This was true in the E9x generation as well, with the similar price premium between models when they were both I6's. The added bits for the N54/N55 did not justify the cost, though the performance difference was much, much more tangible.

Now all people have to complain about is the sound of the I4 at idle and that only "purists" would have the I6. The last "pure" I6 in the BMW stable is in the previous gen N52, being NA rather than FI.
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      01-15-2013, 03:06 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by J Tiberius View Post
And in the 335, as well. Take out the standard xenons/moonroof that are options on the 328 (and slightly bigger brakes of the 335), and all of these models are fundamentally the same car. The N55 is not a $4,000 premium over the 328 because of it's production costs or fabulous engineering - that is largely profit for BMW because they know that people will pay for it for various reasons.

This was true in the E9x generation as well, with the similar price premium between models when they were both I6's. The added bits for the N54/N55 did not justify the cost, though the performance difference was much, much more tangible.
Agreed, plenty of profit in the 335i. But it's still a bit of a mystery as to why BMW NA pushes the 328i so heavily.

Should I take some comfort in knowing that I probably have the only 3-series (AH3) that BMW likely loses money on?
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      01-15-2013, 03:18 PM   #206
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If I understand correctly? People are up in arms about this because potentially the door has opened to new customers who would like a BMW instead of a domestic , Japanese or Korean therefore allowing BMW to further capitalise on the 3er for the US Market allowing BMW to jump ahead of its competitors .

Why should we not offer a model to our US customers ? That according to my stateside colleagues is potential growth because these buyers that purchase domestic etc are more likely to pay outright rather than lease. In Europe we can offer the 3er as a 318d yet no one is up in arms about exclusivity. Anyone who would like a BMW is considered a target customer because it has shown that these customers will stay with the brand and that is what we would like to see in the long run. I am sure there are people here on this forum who are interested in this open door because now they can have a 3er a model they probably thought would be out of reach. And I would gladly hand them their key to their 3er their first and possibly not their last BMW.
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      01-15-2013, 03:19 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Agreed, plenty of profit in the 335i. But it's still a bit of a mystery as to why BMW NA pushes the 328i so heavily.

Should I take some comfort in knowing that I probably have the only 3-series (AH3) that BMW likely loses money on?
No. You're the reason they had to make the 320i...I hope you're proud of yourself! lol
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      01-15-2013, 03:20 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradF View Post
by introducing the 320i (which is essentially the same car as the 328i) for $4,300 less, BMW is offering solid evidence of what a profitable car the 328i F30 has been for them. Seriously? They can now offer the same car with a detuned engine for a whopping $4,300 less?
The higher up the model hierarcy the higher the margin, so naturally they profit more by selling u a 328i than a 320i. Likewise for a 335i over a 328i. It's nothing new.
This detuning game is not new, BMW, Audi, MB, Volvo, Saab etc etc have all been doing it for many yrs already. The engines cannot be tuned to the level of the "higher" versions, so u pay wht u want.
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      01-15-2013, 03:21 PM   #209
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Strange perceptions expressed here. In my neighborhood Laurelhurst, one of the toniest in Seattle, lots of 328s and 335s, some 500-series, and some M versions. Just a couple of bigger BMWs. The high end market is dominated by Mercedes, with big Lexuses and Audi a distant second.

Nobody's status rides on whether they're in a 320 or a 335 or a 750. Lots of the biggest houses have Prius's and Camrys.

Similarly, considering the profit on the 320, 328, and 335 independent of the fixed cost of developing the technology and construction of the factories to build them is not sound. The marginal cost of construction is only part of the profit calculation.

I think the reason BMW (and Toyota, for that matter) can build better cars than Rolls Royce and Ferrari is the vast corps of engineers they employ, and the deep experience in fixing problems from their volume of sales. Just my opinion.
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      01-15-2013, 03:24 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Also since BMW (in the US market at least) appears to be selling 328i to 335i at a ratio of 10:1, it also leads me to believe there is lots of profit in the 328i.
There's even more profit on the 335i than the 328i.
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      01-15-2013, 03:24 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
320i & 320i ED. There's also the 316i & 318i w/N13 (aka Prince).
+1....

Americans are now discovering that their BMW's are loosing it "status"

God forbid if others start driving 316's and 318's.....

At one point you had to dish some serious extra dough to upgrade to 320i in Europe.....

People have been waaaay too spoiled with their 328 and 335's in this country.

Good for BMW with this decision. They are in the business to sell cars not to protect some sort of a overplayed "status" image they have in this country.
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      01-15-2013, 03:31 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by BradF View Post
I think it's wise for BMW to do this and the 320i will be a very successful model, but to me it really does beg the question: why bother with the 328i? The F30 328 with just a few options begins to enter what very recently was 5-series territory; the basic 3-er had gone way too upmarket with pricing, and this is the fix.
Well to me the added performance of the 328i justifies the extra $4,000. Also BMW will probably reshuffle standard equipment across the lines/models next MY. The extra $4,000 may not entirely be performance, it might also cover added equipment.
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      01-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #213
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Well to me the added performance of the 328i justifies the extra $4,000. Also BMW will probably reshuffle standard equipment across the lines/models next MY. The extra $4,000 may not entirely be performance, it might also cover added equipment.
Usually does, right? Like standard equipment on the 335i much more different than the 328i, etc...
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      01-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #214
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I suspect the 320i will outsell the 328i 3:1...majority of the women who purchase into the Roundel, do so FOR the Roundel -->320i will open that up, and BMW's Marginal cost for this engine is minimal and quickly recouped.

I like what they're doing with their market segmentation...
Spoken like a true economist!
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      01-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #215
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Usually does, right? Like standard equipment on the 335i much more different than the 328i, etc...
Time will tell...
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      01-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #216
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Usually does, right? Like standard equipment on the 335i much more different than the 328i, etc...
It's not "much more different". A moonroof (which many people don't even want), xenons (which most people do want), and bigger brakes are the differences in standard equipment. That isn't a heck of a lot.
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      01-15-2013, 04:25 PM   #217
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Seems like they're going to keep diluting the brand until it becomes the next Volkswagen, they all look alike no matter how much money you spend.
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      01-15-2013, 04:37 PM   #218
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Seems like they're going to keep diluting the brand until it becomes the next Volkswagen, they all look alike no matter how much money you spend.
Get seriuos, freshwhite. Volkswagens are front wheel drive, BMW's aren't. Everyone knows that.
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      01-15-2013, 04:44 PM   #219
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BMW's Marginal cost for this engine is minimal and quickly recouped.
The marginal cost is just the cost of production. The 20i of the N20 has been fitted to E84, E89, F10, F11, F20, F25 & F30 at various times since 2011, so by offering the 20i version of the F30 in USA incurs no extra cost to BMW.
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      01-15-2013, 04:48 PM   #220
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I find this disappointing. Weren't we supposed to be hearing something about diesel engines? A car with better fuel economy is what I would be looking for. Or, short of that, one with more trim choices, not fewer. Or maybe an RWD wagon in the lineup? Oh, well.
It'll be interesting to see whether this move bolsters unit sales, or whether the sales are just cannibalized from other models.
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