[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's in BMW's best interest to have as few approvals as possible, to convince people that they need to buy BMW branded oil. Reading through this and other threads it's obviously working.

And what is in Oil manufacturers’ best interest….? 💡

Any explanation why a representative of Liqui Moly would repeat 12 times “stick to the car manufacturer approved oils” and doesn’t once imply “just take any of ours, they are all the same anyway”.
Conspiracy theory?

You hopefully don’t work in a technical environment if you associate standards and approvals (only) with royalty fees 😵‍💫
(Or if you do - let us know in which, so that we can be cautious &#128513

In my field, standards and technical approvals are created by engineers and used to enforce quality assurance, not revenue.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

And it's in their own interest to get as many approvals on their products as possible as that ensures wider application. The fact that a certain oil does not hold a particular approval means it probably does not conform with it....
All of this has nothing to do with royalty.

Exactly. Approvals are not a moneymaker. BMW doesn't care. They want to make it as easy as possible for customers to enjoy a healthy engine over long drains.

[AspektUSA]

I've got LL-04 Motul XClean+ 5w30 coming for my change in March, and I'm kind of second guessing it now.

LL17 and LL04 are both low/mid SAPS respectively, but I wonder if the LL17 is better formulated for US gasoline ethanol or other additive content.

LL-19 doesn't seem to be spec'd for the North American market either, and there's no real explanation I think.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

I've got LL-04 Motul XClean+ 5w30 coming for my change in March, and I'm kind of second guessing it now.

LL17 and LL04 are both low/mid SAPS respectively, but I wonder if the LL17 is better formulated for US gasoline ethanol or other additive content.

LL-19 doesn't seem to be spec'd for the North American market either, and there's no real explanation I think.

You will get better protection for the lower LL numbers (LL-01 is better for engine protection than LL-04). The newer (larger numbers) are changes to increase mileage for emission reasons. (at least for LL-01 vs LL-04)

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by Wires

You will get better protection for the lower LL numbers (LL-01 is better for engine protection than LL-04). The newer (larger numbers) are changes to increase mileage for emission reasons. (at least for LL-01 vs LL-04)

I think that hypothesis is a little simple, and my view is:

LL-01 is the minimum spec for BMW gasoline engines, even if it was revised in 2018.

"4.0 BMW Longlife-01

BMW Longlife-01 engine oils are a minimum requirement for all BMW Group petrol engines without petrol particulate filter from model year 2002 and for BMW Group diesel engines without particulate filter from model year 2003. Aside from that, BMW Longlife-01 engine oils are also permitted for use in older BMW Group engines.

Refer to the document "Technically appropriate engine oils for BMW Group engines" for detailed release information."

LL-04 is more akin to VW 504 and VW 502 to LL-01.

VW 504 is a better spec than 502, and is usually found along side BMW LL-04, MB 229.51, etc.

My 2015 GTI called for VW 502, but subsequent model years and iterations went from VW502 --> 504 --> 508 --> 511.

Long story short, I think LL-04 is probably fine and meets what we're looking for: high HTHS with lower SAPS content that better suits the Bx8 engine series than full SAPS LL-01.

Fuel quality is the main concern, but that would be the case with LL-17FE+ I would think.

[B58 _gran_coupe_]

Florida based and i fill 5w30 liqui moly special tech every 4k miles and I send the old oil to Blackstone each time I drop it. 45k miles and stage 2 plus with ethanol flex tune mostly running e30-e50

She's in rude health.

[lens]

From what I remember, B58 has tight clearances and 0w20 - 5W30 is fine.

5W40 may be a bit too thick for tolerances but I could be wrong unless you live in hot climates.

I personally won't be going thicker than 5W30.

Originally Posted by Wires

kern417 did a video on it explaining the changes. Honestly, buying oil and then swapping used for new is literally abusing their returns policy (yeh, I know that's the deal they set up, but still).

I mean, that's their fault for setting up that policy, it's not abuse if it's legal and what they say you're allowed to do. I have a few guys who saved thousands doing that with FCPeuro.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by lens

I mean, that's their fault for setting up that policy, it's not abuse if it's legal and what they say you're allowed to do. I have a few guys who saved thousands doing that with FCPeuro.

Sorry, I worded it wrong. It is their policy, but just seems wrong.

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by lens

From what I remember, B58 has tight clearances and 0w20 - 5W30 is fine.

5W40 may be a bit too thick for tolerances but I could be wrong unless you live in hot climates.

I personally won't be going thicker than 5W30.

My view as well.
Another reason to consider thicker than W30 would be high mileage.

Apart from that - I'd stick to 0W30 / 5W30, depending on the climate and application. 0W20 is to me rather an environmentally focused oil though... It is not used in Europe.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Wires

You will get better protection for the lower LL numbers (LL-01 is better for engine protection than LL-04). The newer (larger numbers) are changes to increase mileage for emission reasons. (at least for LL-01 vs LL-04)

Incorrect.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

I've got LL-04 Motul XClean+ 5w30 coming for my change in March, and I'm kind of second guessing it now.

LL17 and LL04 are both low/mid SAPS respectively, but I wonder if the LL17 is better formulated for US gasoline ethanol or other additive content.

LL-19 doesn't seem to be spec'd for the North American market either, and there's no real explanation I think.

The only difference between LL04 and LL17 is viscosity/HTHS. Basically LL04 oils cannot be 20w and LL17 can only be 20w.

BMW uses polymer* coated bearings in B-series engines so they can run 20w with stop/start for max fuel efficiency.

The B-series can run 5w40 with no problem. These engines are sold worldwide market s which have differences in fuel quality as well as average engine speeds.

US fuel is low sulphur and we don't have Autobahn.

*Irox bearings.

[Gen13 F36]

Interesting point of view on specification...

So answer this why does B58 from the Supra doesn't mention LL-01 or whatever approved oil by BMW?

[lens]

Originally Posted by Wires

Sorry, I worded it wrong. It is their policy, but just seems wrong.

If it's their policy, it's not wrong.

That's like saying, if it was legal to go get a free meal from subways every month, but it just seems wrong.

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by Gen13 F36

Interesting point of view on specification...

So answer this why does B58 from the Supra doesn't mention LL-01 or whatever approved oil by BMW?

The Supra manual doesn't mention anything pertaining to BMW, for illuision's sake.

It says use 0w-20 C5 Toyota or some Gazoo Racing stuff they sell.

0w-20 and 0w-30 are listed as suitable grades, but also keep in mind this is the newer version of the B58.

But in practice, the forum folks use 0w-20 to 5w-40 same as us.

[Runner340]

Originally Posted by rlrbmw

Thanks, not to be a pain, but (I'm old and) I searched kern417 to find the video and couldn't. Can you share the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qak_u1RMMcU

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Gen13 F36

So answer this why does B58 from the Supra doesn't mention LL-01 or whatever approved oil by BMW?

Because they want Supra owners going to Toyota dealerships for their oil changes, just as BMW wants BMW owners going to BMW dealerships. It all makes perfect sense when you know that the profit center of any dealership isn't the show room. It's the service bays.
The Toyota spec is 0W-20 C5. Toyota oil is made by Mobil. It's not a far stretch to say that 0W-20 C5 meets the same standards as LL14-FE+. There are at least a dozen 0W-20 C5 oils. Castrol EDGE 0W-20 C5 is one. Coincidence?

[Billfitz]

You'll get 20.

[Gen13 F36]

This is so funny...where is really the difference between the LL and non LL oil .... anyone tested the oil if there is a chemical identitier contain on the oil that you can identify which is which.

[Billfitz]

They have identified it as 'gullibilium'.

[lens]

I would stick with 0w20 if you still have factory free maintenance.

But once that's up, go to either 0w30,5w30, or 0w40.

[Billfitz]

If you still have factory 'you already paid for it' maintenance the dealer chooses what to use.

[lens]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

If you still have factory 'you already paid for it' maintenance the dealer chooses what to use.

Unless you buy the car used, and the previous owner bought 3 extra years for you, then it's free for me

I meant, in between intervals, I'm not going 15,000km without an oil change, I'd pay to change it at 7,500km, and get the other 7,500km done at the dealer.