[TodmordenLad]

BBC News - Thames Water boss says bills need to rise by 40%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68682198

Reading this article and other recent coverage about Thames Water, is there a worse run utility company in the UK? Since privatisation, successive leadership teams have buried their heads in the sand and have watched the problem grow exponentially, happy to take their big salaries and bonuses. Like many of the regulators, Ofwat appears to have shrugged off the pollution breaches, massive debt, underinvestment and general incompetence. What a f***ing mess!!

[isleaiw1]

Water is the obvious area where pro competition privatisation seemed most strange - as you cant change who your supplier is (or indeed who takes your waste water) so no competition, lots if investment in infrastructure, public good.... better as a natural monopoly than a private company according to all the theories I read.

And Thames are going about proving it!

[agentorange]

The Thames Water thing is not unusual in the business world. A so-called "group" moves in on a company (it almost does not matter what they do) and uses that company's credit to get loans that disappear into vague areas of the the "group". Once the credit of the company is tainted, it is is sold for pennies or liquidated, with the inevitable job losses. Doing it to a nationally important utility is a stroke of genius in some ways, as the "group" knows that at some point the government will probably have to step in with money to take Thames water off their hands. I mean, do you think any UK government has the balls to nationalize it with no compensation? Would be quite a court case.

An investment group did these maneuvers on Remington Arms over here. The fall was hastened by Remington introducing some flaky products just before they were bought. The perfect storm. The result was another "group" got the firearms side of the company except the Marlin name and tooling that went to Sturm Ruger. The ammo side went to the Vista Outdoors group. Neither of these transactions were wonderful for the workforce.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Water is the obvious area where pro competition privatisation seemed most strange - as you cant change who your supplier is (or indeed who takes your waste water) so no competition, lots if investment in infrastructure, public good.... better as a natural monopoly than a private company according to all the theories I read.

And Thames are going about proving it!

Utilities were a classic case of Government (in the 1980s) ditching the responsibility and headache of running these potential vote-losing companies. Sell them off and market them to the public, so every man can be an 'investor'.

Some things just shouldn't be privatised IMO. Lack of investment to make profits look good for investors has been a problem for decades with many of these 'sell offs' IMO.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Water is the obvious area where pro competition privatisation seemed most strange - as you cant change who your supplier is (or indeed who takes your waste water) so no competition, lots if investment in infrastructure, public good.... better as a natural monopoly than a private company according to all the theories I read.

And Thames are going about proving it!

Let's hope that Thames shareholders don't get a haircut. The university professors pension scheme is a significant shareholder. Wouldn't that make you laugh, these died in the wool weird beard lefties taking a bath on their investment

[Fuse]

Originally Posted by Pond

Some things just shouldn't be privatised IMO. Lack of investment to make profits look good for investors has been a problem for decades with many of these 'sell offs' IMO.

Do you really think we'd have higher levels of investment if it were nationalised and it had to compete for funding along with education, healthcare, policing, etc.? It would be chronically underfunded and inefficient just like it was before they privatised it, there's been massively more amounts invested across the industry since it was privatised.

There's no defending what's gone on at Thames Water, but I honestly believe nationalising the water industry would only end up with things getter much worse across the sector.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by Fuse

Do you really think we'd have higher levels of investment if it were nationalised and it had to compete for funding along with education, healthcare, policing, etc.? It would be chronically underfunded and inefficient just like it was before they privatised it, there's been massively more amounts invested across the industry since it was privatised.

There's no defending what's gone on at Thames Water, but I honestly believe nationalising the water industry would only end up with things getter much worse across the sector.

No, I don't. Problem I see is that these privatised monopolies are still run like they were Gov owned, just with shareholders to please, rather than voters.

I'm a capitalist at heart, but many of these 'private' companies are not being run as such.

Look at BT (and open reach who are the same company but a different name). Massive lack of investment in infra-structure since they were sold off, cos it's all about the money.

Same with the water companies and energy companies. There are still hundreds of thousands of homes in the UK without mains drainage or mains gas supply. I know of a few locally that don't have mains electricity! No excuse in the UK in 2024 for that. Apart from it's 'not economically viable'. Not for a profit-making company, no.

[TodmordenLad]

England and Wales are the only countries in the world to have privatised their entire water and sewage disposal systems.
We have the dirtiest rivers in Europe.
Go figure!!

Welcome to mediavel Britain 😱

[mikeoz]

We really dont seem to be able to write the contract properly for these privatised former state owned entities. The government seems useless at holding them to account and they seem to walk away leaving us the tax payer to pick up the bill.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

We really dont seem to be able to write the contract properly for these privatised former state owned entities. The government seems useless at holing them to account and they seem to walk away leaving us the tax payer to pick up the bill.

we seemingly cant even get it right for a single public private finance initiative contract so sale of a whole business was bound to be beyond the people drafting... We need something more radical in terms of the whole set up of govt provision to enable the funding to be generated to provide what is needed properly...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

England and Wales are the only countries in the world to have privatised their entire water and sewage disposal systems.
We have the dirtiest rivers in Europe.
Go figure!!

Welcome to mediavel Britain 😱

Indeed. Also a lot to be said for Britain being the most densely populated country in Europe too.
Too many people is killing almost every bit of infrastructure and services.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

We really dont seem to be able to write the contract properly for these privatised former state owned entities. The government seems useless at holing them to account and they seem to walk away leaving us the tax payer to pick up the bill.

It's for exactly this reason that I dont believe civil servants could run the utilities any better, and probably much worse, than they're being run now.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by crAbb

It's for exactly this reason that I dont believe civil servants could run the utilities any better, and probably much worse, than they're being run now.

I listened to the CEO of Thames Water on the radio the other day attempting to justify record levels of eColi in the Thames. It was pitiful. G*d knows who appointed him - I wouldn't have given him a job watering the plants in reception.
When TW is inevitably renationalised, the govt of the day needs to clear out the rot at the top, with a total reset of the remuneration structure.
Back to your point, I don't think it's possible to run TW any worse than it is today, even with govt ministers from the current crop of corrupt incompetents nominally in charge.

[TodmordenLad]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...=share_btn_url

If you're not familiar with Marina Hyde's acerbic humour, she's well worth a read - writing here about the state of our water industry.

[SkyJawa]

Keeps getting better….

Thames Water troubles swell as parent firm defaults on debt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68742551

[Wills2]

Fergal nails them every time he opens his mouth, it's not just Thames though most are debt vehicles for investors, all of our governments have turned a blind eye to the destruction of our rivers and coastal waters, watching untreated sewage flow into them as dividends wing their way out of the country.