[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by NOGBMW

I am a former TL owner of 8 years that just got a 2013 335 and I must tell you while the TL is a solid car it can't touch the shear thrill and joy I get from driving my 335 everyday. I know your friend shit eating grin all too well because it's what my face looks like from the minute I pull out the driveway until I return home.

Yes, that look on his face was priceless. I've known him 20 years and he never looked so perplexed, mystified, excited, focused, driven (intended). It was though he was the nerd who asked the beauty queen to the prom and she said yes. Once he got a few miles under his belt, he was asking me about the different modes and how to switch. After a bit of questioning he started pushing buttons on his own to see what would happen. I've never seen him like this before. It was too funny to watch that transformation. Between the weird facial expressions and previously described grins, there was the muddled audible sound of aweeeesoooome over and over. Okay, maybe I'm dramatizing, but it was almost that good.

He texted me this morning the following:"Drove to the gym this morning in the TL........boring!!"

I responded with a link to the BMW build your own website. We will see what happens

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by python

I always thought the Acura logo was just the Honda logo pinched at the top to make it look like an A. The fact that it looks like calipers might be serendipitous.

Nope. It's very intentional.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Just got back from a road trip in my F30 with a buddy of mine that owns a TL that is a few years old. Before this trip my buddy teased me about owning a BMW and wondering what all the fuss was about. He can afford whatever he wants so it wasn't a jealousy thing at all.

Anyway, we took this road trip from the Bay Area to Mammoth and Death Valley. I offered to let him drive and at first he was reluctant. When we left Mammoth I offered to let him drive again and he finally accepted. In a matter of a few miles he went from an annoying non-BMW guy to a gusher. He used the word awesome so much I thought I was listening to Jeff Gordon praise his team, owners, sponsors and fans after a NASCAR victory; awesome, awesome, awesome!

He loved the different settings from Eco to Sport + and kept switching to feel the noticeable difference. He loved the adaptive suspension, the power, the transmission, the HK sound, the sport seats, the M-sport steering wheel.

From that point on he could not get enough of it. He drove most of the remaining 500 miles of the trip. I had to sit there and keep hearing the word awesome and look at that sh*t-eating grin on his face. I reminded him all cars have gotten better since his TL was new and downplay the BMW thing a bit. He wasn't buying it.

We get back to his house and his wife asked how the trip went and he turned into a BMW salesman going on and on about how amazing the car is an how he wants to go get one. His wife gave me that look

To all the enthusiasts that think BMW has lost its way and the ride and steering are not the same as the beloved E90, I get that. There is a lot of truth there. BMW is not the same experience as previous generations. So, by comparison the F30 may be lacking. But to my buddy who comes from another model, the F30 is awesome. So while BMW is losing some enthusiasts to other brands there are guys like my buddy that can't wait to get their hands on one.

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Yes, that look on his face was priceless. I've known him 20 years and he never looked so perplexed, mystified, excited, focused, driven (intended). It was though he was the nerd who asked the beauty queen to the prom and she said yes. Once he got a few miles under his belt, he was asking me about the different modes and how to switch. After a bit of questioning he started pushing buttons on his own to see what would happen. I've never seen him like this before. It was too funny to watch that transformation. Between the weird facial expressions and previously described grins, there was the muddled audible sound of aweeeesoooome over and over. Okay, maybe I'm dramatizing, but it was almost that good.

He texted me this morning the following:"Drove to the gym this morning in the TL........boring!!"

I responded with a link to the BMW build your own website. We will see what happens

I really love this story!!!

Have you told him about European Delivery.....for less money than U.S. delivery?! That might get his wife on our side!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by __

I'm quite sure of the goal of Acura's establishment as a brand in 1986.

Did you used to work at Honda/Acura? Why did all the sports cars go away ?

Could you please get us another S2K and NSX without the hybrid stuff?

[zinner]

I had driven GM vehicles (9) all my life. Drove a 2009 328i coupe that my dad picked up and now I drive a 335i. They sell themselves. And I came from a pair of CTS V's previously.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by __

I really love this story!!!

Have you told him about European Delivery.....for less money than U.S. delivery?! That might get his wife on our side!

Yes, I did tell him about ED. When I got my F30 a couple of years ago I picked it up in Munich. I showed him photos of the trip at the time; Welt, the museum, Munich, around Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. I told him I got 5% below invoice buy doing ED. At the time he was thinking BMW blah blah blah. Now that he has the bug, I will remind him again. I'm really motivated to get him to pull the trigger. When we go on our next road trip we can go in his shinny new BMW. His wife should go for it because she loves it when I get him out of the house for a few days. My wife feels the same way LOL.

[Labeef]

I used to be a Honda/Acura guy and now I would never go back.

Nothing out there at the same price or lower price point has better driving dynamics.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Did you used to work at Honda/Acura? Why did all the sports cars go away ?

Could you please get us another S2K and NSX without the hybrid stuff?

No, but I was very interested in Acura when they first came out. I wanted a Legend coupe in the worst way. Unfortunately, I had no way of paying for one at the time. That didn't keep me from driving two hours to the nearest dealer to check it out!

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by Labeef

Nothing out there at the same price or lower price point has better driving dynamics.

I can think of several examples off the top of my head: 6th gen Camaro, Miata, ATS...maybe even the WRX and GTI w/ PP. Obviously none of those cars are perfect and/or practical, but you were talking solely about driving dynamics (and by extension, engagement).

The F30 has plenty of merits, but it is unequivocally a compromise choice. It's not segment-leading in anything, except maybe powertrain technology/efficiency and infotainment. But it's middling in driver engagement and interior design/quality.

Compared to a Honda designed a decade ago, yes, it probably seems pretty awesome. But so would any of the F3x's competitors.

Originally Posted by eluded

The MT in the BMW isn't that bad. Sure its not the S2000 but nothign is

Actually i find the STI tranny closest to the S2K. Porsche gears are spaced farther than say, Chevy SS or ATSV to name a few, and thus don't feel as good. I'd say porsche is at least a distant 4th place.

The F3x 6MT is objectively good, it just isn't mind-blowing like Honda's. I've never driven an STI, but I assumed it sucked because the WRX has a vague, notchy cable-actuated thing. You are probably right about GM's 6MTs; I loved the one in the Camaro I tested. I last drove a 996 like 8 years ago, and I remember it had longish throws but very satisfying engagement. Hard to compare with years between them, but it's likely GM's is better than Porsche's. I caught myself looking at used S2ks yesterday, despite the fact it'll never happen now that I have two kids. I'm optimistic about the upcoming Civic hatch with the turbo 4+6MT, especially if they sell it in Si guise; that could make a sweet DD.

I test drove the new Tacoma with a 6MT, and it had a surprisingly decent shifter despite the requisite long-ass throws (because pickup). I'm seriously considering one for my next lease (you can lease a $36k MSRP TRD Off-Road Taco for under $250/month, nothing down thanks to the insanely high residuals).

[atg4]

Originally Posted by goj

Exactly. I actually chuckle when people even on here are constantly complaining. It's still a fantastic drivers car

This is me at the track. E90 owners complaining about F30 steering then I pass them.

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I can think of several examples off the top of my head: 6th gen Camaro, Miata, ATS...maybe even the WRX and GTI w/ PP. Obviously none of those cars are perfect and/or practical, but you were talking solely about driving dynamics (and by extension, engagement).

The F30 has plenty of merits, but it is unequivocally a compromise choice. It's not segment-leading in anything, except maybe powertrain technology/efficiency and infotainment. But it's middling in driver engagement and interior design/quality.

Compared to a Honda designed a decade ago, yes, it probably seems pretty awesome. But so would any of the F3x's competitors.

.

Maybe I should have been more clear. There is nothing in the F30 segment that can touche the F30 overall and not based on preference but metrics. Sure there are better cars for around the same cost or less, but you would be sacrificing something, where is in the F30 you can do it all, like take road trip. Not many people would cross shop a Camaro, Miata, WRX, or GTI when looking at the F30. Those cars are not even in the same segment.

[F30_CH]

OP,

Coming from Infiniti, I just purchased my first BMW. I have lots of friends with BMWs and family members as well but just never saw the hype. I always knew they looked good and drove nice but never had I felt the true ownership feeling. Like your Jeff Gordon friend, I too went on and on the first week of owning the car. They truly are such great cars inside and out. Such a smart design with every bit of detail. After the first week, I called my buddy who is also a member here and told him "Now I understand what you have felt this whole time, I will never not own a BMW in my life. These cars are.. just wow.. " Anyway, just wanted to quickly share my WOW moment your buddy had!

[fshubert]

The F30 is unbelievably comfortable! I drove mine round-trip NJ to IL non-stop (11 hours each way) and it felt like I only drove a couple of hours. The car holds you like a glove, no pressure points to cause discomfort after a few hours of sitting, and Sirius kept the music going uninterrupted. I always keep the car in Sport+ mode but for this trip was in EcoPro and got 32MPG at 70-75MPH. Awesome drive and great mileage in the Ultimate Driving Machine.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by F30_CH

OP,

Coming from Infiniti, I just purchased my first BMW. I have lots of friends with BMWs and family members as well but just never saw the hype. I always knew they looked good and drove nice but never had I felt the true ownership feeling. Like your Jeff Gordon friend, I too went on and on the first week of owning the car. They truly are such great cars inside and out. Such a smart design with every bit of detail. After the first week, I called my buddy who is also a member here and told him "Now I understand what you have felt this whole time, I will never not own a BMW in my life. These cars are.. just wow.. " Anyway, just wanted to quickly share my WOW moment your buddy had!

Thanks for sharing your WOW moment. BMW may have drifted away from the pure driving machines of the past by offering a wide variety of options for a broader market, but they still have that certain something. I'm glad you got hooked like I've been for many many years. I, too, cannot see myself not owning one. Right now, I'm eyeballing the X5 and X3 for my wife. She's driven both and has given the thumbs up. I'm thinking about waiting until the new G01 X3. We'll see.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by fshubert

The F30 is unbelievably comfortable! I drove mine round-trip NJ to IL non-stop (11 hours each way) and it felt like I only drove a couple of hours. The car holds you like a glove, no pressure points to cause discomfort after a few hours of sitting, and Sirius kept the music going uninterrupted. I always keep the car in Sport+ mode but for this trip was in EcoPro and got 32MPG at 70-75MPH. Awesome drive and great mileage in the Ultimate Driving Machine.

Glad you like your car. ECO Pro isn't bad for long trips with not a lot of traffic. 32 MPG is darn good for a car with performance like yours (335 and MT). I get 39 MPG on long trips (CA to ID) in my 328iAT when in ECO Pro. That's 20% better than yours but I was really just cruising. When I push it at all it drops to 34 or so. That small difference in MPG for such a difference in overall performance is pretty amazing.

I don't miss MT anymore now that I am used to the 8AT in the F30. No other automatic has made me forget my longing for a car with a manual transmission. While I still would love to have MT for a weekend car, daily driving with the 8AT in the F30 is simply incredible and I don't regret having go over to the dark side. But, I'll still am a bit jealous from time to time of your engine/transmission combo.

[ErkanTR16]

Once you drive a BMW there's no going back.

[300hp]

My wife and kids are away for 2 weeks in June. I am planning to take the f30 out for a tail of the dragon spin. I am in NJ so that's about a 700 mile trip. Looking forward to it

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Cool story!! glad you had a great trip


but...the cynic in me is thinking this is exactly what BMW had in mind with the softer F30.. to convert Lexus and Acura types.

If you had an E90 M3 I suspect your friend would have been complaining of the harsh ride and hard to turn steering wheel.

An "hardcore enthusiast" honda owner would have an AP1 S2k with a suspension mods worth as much as the car, or an engine swapped civic. Was your friend's TL even a 6MT type S or was it an automatic base TL?

Don't mean, to come off negatively, just truly curious because when some colleagues get into my F80 M3 they are like WTF are these cloth seats and why is the car so bumpy?! So it seems like the sport aspects of BMW that we all love actually are a turn off to some

Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I like it.

Nick, this is so true on both of your points. One of my coworkers recently commented on how smooth the ride was in my car with the sport suspension; I hate that. Usually got comments that my E92 felt stiff.

I hate the softer guys now buying our BMWs and changing the brand.

Even still, truth is that in comparison to other cars from this generation, the F30 does hold up well.

[erko1905]

Originally Posted by 300hp

My wife and kids are away for 2 weeks in June. I am planning to take the f30 out for a tail of the dragon spin. I am in NJ so that's about a 700 mile trip. Looking forward to it

That sounds awesome.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by goj

Exactly. I actually chuckle when people even on here are constantly complaining. It's still a fantastic drivers car

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I don't fault the complainers too much since I used to be one. I was a multiple e39 owner and felt that it was the best sedan ever made. When the E60 bangled flame surface thing came out, I hated it and kept my beloved E39 instead of buying something that wasn't worthy in my humble view. I saved $60k and continued to drive a car I loved instead. I complained, but on the E39 forum. What I didn't do was go on the E60 forums and tell the E60 owners how unworthy their cars were. What's the point of that?

Disagree. I don't have the stats but I reckon the number of posters who post strictly to complain about "unworthiness" & nothing else is negligible to none.

I've been reading and posting on auto enthusiast forums (mostly BMW) for the better part of 2 decades going back to the beginning of the Internet on unmoderated Usenet newsgroups that preceded the Web; and through the years, there's one thing that's clear: BMW enthusiasts are by far the most passionate bunch. They (and admittedly, I was one of them ) would go to other boards to tell them about the great driving feel, connection to the road, etc. of the Bimmers over the detached feel, etc., of their disconnected boring MB's/Audi.

And it was with the same passion that when the Bangled cars came out (starting with the E65 7-Series) it was trashed by the BMW boards and the magazines and public followed suit to pile on. I don't think it's a coincidence that the F10 was more conservative than the E60. Voices were heard.

IMO, true BMW enthusiasts (whatever you think that means) are objective and tell it like it is. We are fans not fanboys who only say nice things about BMW. And by most "objective" measures, the 3-Series E36 > E46 > E90 > F30, BMW has been softening, and I think true BMW fans ought to be displeased with this trend and speak out to voice our displeasure à la the E65 and the more voices the better.

So while it's admirable that you "complained" on the E39 board and not the E60 board, but why did you even bother? In the E39 closet, you weren't really heard, you were preaching to the choir. If everyone stayed in the closet like you, maybe Bangle would still be head of BMW design today (which in retrospect he was probably ahead of his time).

And so as with what happened to the E65 and E60 back in the days, I'm hoping complaints about the F30 on these boards will contribute a tiny bit and result in the next gen G20 we will see a reverse of this "Lexusification" trend.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Disagree. I don't have the stats but I reckon the number of posters who post strictly to complain about "unworthiness" & nothing else is negligible to none.

I've been reading and posting on auto enthusiast forums (mostly BMW) for the better part of 2 decades going back to the beginning of the Internet on unmoderated Usenet newsgroups that preceded the Web; and through the years, there's one thing that's clear: BMW enthusiasts are by far the most passionate bunch. They (and admittedly, I was one of them ) would go to other boards to tell them about the great driving feel, connection to the road, etc. of the Bimmers over the detached feel, etc., of their disconnected boring MB's/Audi.

And it was with the same passion that when the Bangled cars came out (starting with the E65 7-Series) it was trashed by the BMW boards and the magazines and public followed suit to pile on. I don't think it's a coincidence that the F10 was more conservative than the E60. Voices were heard.

IMO, true BMW enthusiasts (whatever you think that means) are objective and tell it like it is. We are fans not fanboys who only say nice things about BMW. And by most "objective" measures, the 3-Series E36 > E46 > E90 > F30, BMW has been softening, and I think true BMW fans ought to be displeased with this trend and speak out to voice our displeasure à la the E65 and the more voices the better.

So while it's admirable that you "complained" on the E39 board and not the E60 board, but why did you even bother? In the E39 closet, you weren't really heard, you were preaching to the choir. If everyone stayed in the closet like you, maybe Bangle would still be head of BMW design today (which in retrospect he was probably ahead of his time).

And so as with what happened to the E65 and E60 back in the days, I'm hoping complaints about the F30 on these boards will contribute a tiny bit and result in the next gen G20 we will see a reverse of this "Lexusification" trend.

Where do I start? I'll just write a list:

1) Complaints on the F30 forums about about F30 softness, steering feel, plastic interior, and negative comparisons to E90 and previous gen 3ers are numerous. Granted, they have been dwindling.
2) Going on a website of a car I don't like is not being in the closet at all. It's just not calling a mother's baby ugly.
3) If you think BMW is listening to us on this forum and changing its product roadmap based on what they read, you are mistaken. If that were the case, there would be no run flats, no GTs, we'd still have dipsticks, etc. BMW is too busy building a highly-successful global car company.
4) You can still get a BMW that is not soft. You just have to pick the right model with the correct options and packages. Some so called enthusiasts think that's horrible and that all BMWs should be build that way by default. Well, its not happening that way.
5) Bangle was not ahead of his time. He was a egomaniac jerk that used the BMW canvas to make a name for himself.

[goj]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Where do I start? I'll just write a list:

1) Complaints on the F30 forums about about F30 softness, steering feel, plastic interior, and negative comparisons to E90 and previous gen 3ers are numerous. Granted, they have been dwindling.
2) Going on a website of a car I don't like is not being in the closet at all. It's just not calling a mother's baby ugly.
3) If you think BMW is listening to us on this forum and changing its product roadmap based on what they read, you are mistaken. If that were the case, there would be no run flats, no GTs, we'd still have dipsticks, etc. BMW is too busy building a highly-successful global car company.
4) You can still get a BMW that is not soft. You just have to pick the right model with the correct options and packages. Some so called enthusiasts think that's horrible and that all BMWs should be build that way by default. Well, its not happening that way.
5) Bangle was not ahead of his time. He was a egomaniac jerk that used the BMW canvas to make a name for himself.

It's not even worth my time responding lol I'm impressed you did