[Gorsh]

Nobody has mentioned using a fuel additive as an alternative to premium fuel. Do any of those products do any good (or harm) and does anyone use them?

I haven't tried any mainly due to lack of knowledge as to their effect. If they work as claimed the cost isn't any more than premium fuel, and in places where premium fuel isn't available they seem a viable alternative - I don't know anywhere selling BP Ultimate where I live.

Opinions on this would be appreciated.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Gorsh

Nobody has mentioned using a fuel additive as an alternative to premium fuel. Do any of those products do any good (or harm) and does anyone use them?

I haven't tried any mainly due to lack of knowledge as to their effect. If they work as claimed the cost isn't any more than premium fuel, and in places where premium fuel isn't available they seem a viable alternative - I don't know anywhere selling BP Ultimate where I live.

Opinions on this would be appreciated.

Many diesel users have added an aftermarket additive over the years. Became very popular when we went over to low sulphur diesel and many users were doing it to protect their injection equipment. There were lots of HPFP and injector failures due to low lubricity of the ULSD. Lubricity is another valid reason for the additives.

Millers product is one of the most respected in the UK, particularly by private motorists. Many in the motor trade and HGV sector use products like Countdown, as a matter of course.

The public seem more sceptical on products like additives, than fleet managers, those who cost out mpg savings, service life, costs and downtime.

I've used Miller diesel additive (DPF compatible) as an alternative to BP Ultimate, and in the situations where I couldn't get a premium fuel, like the far North West of Scotland and the Islands, where the fuel can be a little suspect.

BTW, BMW now offer their own diesel and petrol additive, playing catch up to the injection companies like Delphi, Lucas and Stanadyne, who have been supplying diesel fuel additives for years, to the commercial and HGV sectors.

HighlandPete

[Gorsh]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Many diesel users have added an aftermarket additive over the years. Became very popular when we went over to low sulphur diesel and many users were doing it to protect their injection equipment. There were lots of HPFP and injector failures due to low lubricity of the ULSD. Lubricity is another valid reason for the additives.

Millers product is one of the most respected in the UK, particularly by private motorists. Many in the motor trade and HGV sector use products like Countdown, as a matter of course.

The public seem more sceptical on products like additives, than fleet managers, those who cost out mpg savings, service life, costs and downtime.

I've used Miller diesel additive (DPF compatible) as an alternative to BP Ultimate, and in the situations where I couldn't get a premium fuel, like the far North West of Scotland and the Islands, where the fuel can be a little suspect.

BTW, BMW now offer their own diesel and petrol additive, playing catch up to the injection companies like Delphi, Lucas and Stanadyne, who have been supplying diesel fuel additives for years, to the commercial and HGV sectors.

HighlandPete

Thanks very much for the info - it was Millers I had seen and users reviews seemed good. It's not worth me bothering in my present car as its only two weeks until I trade it in for a new 330d F31 Luxury. I intend keeping the new car for at least 5 or 6 years so it may be worthwhile using a regular additive like Millers. Would it be better to get a few miles on the clock first or start using it immediately? The BMW additive may be an option too if it's not overpriced, I will ask my dealer about it - do you know anyone who sells it online?

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

This subject always seems to polarize opinion.

I suggest a lot of it is due to expecting to measure improved mpg and more power if we use a premium fuel, almost from the off, applies both to diesel or petrol.

I also suggest we are really missing the point, (regarding fuel selection) both regarding engine designs, longevity and retaining peak performance.

For a petrol engine the science is simple. If an engine is designed to run on the higher octane fuels (RON 98) then anything less and we don't have the same performance, as the engine is retarded (knock control) to run with fuels that have less resistance to detonation. Plus a petrol fuel with a decent additive package will help KEEP the injection and combustion at peak performance. DI engines being even more critical to injection performance and complete combustion.

Diesel is again subject to the benefits of the advanced additive packages, assisting to level out combustion variations (particularly as it can deteriorate over time/mileage). Two important additives within the package are Cetane improvers, reducing ignition delay and better flame burn, plus Deposit Control Additives (CDAs) helping prevent build up and/or reduce deposits over time.

For some of us who are familiar with the time when engines required de-cokes, we know what carbon deposits can do, how different a car will run once de-coked.

The same can still apply to a degree, we can lose performance over time, mpg can drop off over a long period, often like the coking up of an engine, where we don't initially sense it. The decoke clearly highlighted what we had slowly lost over time.

So we have the option to keep a car as clean as possible with regards to combustion, best served by long term use of a fuel with a better additive package, or just run on whatever fuel we can buy at the cheapest price.

Different fuels may not show up changes immediately, if ever. Often our cars are sold on, we never know how the next user gets along with 150,000 miles on it, or whether he suffers poor performance, low mpg, or worse.

The science is out there, both for how additives keep an engine clean in the critical areas, and for improved performance, compared to fuels without the additive package.

Some drivers can feel (and hear) the differences, others don't. Then some drivers don't know when their tyres are low on pressure, whereas others can sense a couple of psi difference, no problem at all.

HighlandPete

Question. You say additives will clear the coke up caused over time. Will a good hard run eg daily long distance commute have the same effect ie the engine gets hot and burns off any accumulated deposits

Have noticed in the wife's 1 which is used for a 4 mile commute that after a long hot run it feels better subjectively.

[SkyJawa]

I used millers for 30k miles with normal crappy diesel and found no issue. Always felt a little smoother and returned a few more miles to the tank over boggo diesel on its own.

[Ali Shiralian]

I'll only use 94 Octane whether it's cheap or not

[pmgreenwood]

[QUOTE=dopper99;17123402]Have you guys tried BP Ultimate diesel? With regards performance I find this makes a slight difference whereas I cannot tell any difference at all with Shell V Power Nitro (or whatever!).

/QUOTE]

My understanding is that BP ultimate diesel has a higher cetane value (the diesel equivalent of octane) than standard diesel and Shell V power Diesel so should give slightly more bang if not necessarily bang per buck.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I know, but I have a monthly fuel budget I try to stick to so feeling rich at the moment. Having been used to paying 130p+ for ages it's no big deal.

I filled up here in Poland and super diesel cost me less than £1 per litre equivalent! That's going back to about 2006 UK prices!

You have ~£43K 335d and a "fuel budget"? Ummm, right OK!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

You have ~43K 335d and a "fuel budget"? Ummm, right OK!

What's so strange? Most families have a budget don't they? Work out what they need to spend on the various outgoings etc and decide what's appropriate to spend on each thing?

Having swapped a 3litre Z4 for a Mini Cooper SD we've already lopped off about £125 per month in our fuel costs!

[dopper99]

If no-one had a "fuel budget" we'd all be running around in 335i's

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dopper99

If no-one had a "fuel budget" we'd all be running around in 335i's

If I didn't it would be an E90 M3 for sure!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

If I didn't it would be an E90 M3 for sure!

+1 Me too

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

My understanding is that BP ultimate diesel has a higher cetane value (the diesel equivalent of octane) than standard diesel and Shell V power Diesel so should give slightly more bang if not necessarily bang per buck.

Cetane number is actually the opposite of Octane. You want diesel to have less resistance to combust unlike a Petrol engine. But you are right, high number of both are preferable, even if they are opposite in effect.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

+1 Me too

With much less fuel duty, the current low in oil prices and the favourable exchange rates, the cost of petrol and diesel here in Poland works out at 82p a litre!

Even at 25k miles per year I could afford to run the M3 at those prices!

[G82Dude]

If a fuel budget was such an important part of the budget, a car providing 60+mpg and less depreciation would surely be the order of the day?!?

We're talking another grand a year here, yes?!? That's nothing against buying a £43K car!

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

With much less fuel duty, the current low in oil prices and the favourable exchange rates, the cost of petrol and diesel here in Poland works out at 82p a litre!

Even at 25k miles per year I could afford to run the M3 at those prices!

That's fairly cheap, but not as cheap as these countries, especially Venezuela!!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

If a fuel budget was such an important part of the budget, a car providing 60+mpg and less depreciation would surely be the order of the day?!?

We're talking another grand a year here, yes?!? That's nothing against buying a 43K car!

It's all relative surely... To each persons circumstances- mileage, income, priorities etc?

And our 43k 335d has about 9k of extras and expected to do 100k in 4 years so likely costs a lot more per month than most other folks "43k" carsI

So yes I earn good money and like fast cars, but do lots of miles, as does my wife, so we Have to draw the line somewhere! That line is £1000 per month on monthly car payments and £500 on fuel between us.

So I think the 335d represents a sweet spot for my priorities. If I did less miles Id have a 335i or M3 perhaps.

Every one has a budget, else the guys with 320ds would have 318ds or the guys with 911s would have Ferrari 458s...

[jusdorange]

Guys 43k is a lot yes but it's not exactly a money is no object type

Even the super rich have a budget

They wouldn't stay very rich if they didn't

The only people I can think of is oil rich Arabs who deprecation and other factors for say a supercar isn't a concern

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by jusdorange

Guys 43k is a lot yes but it's not exactly a money is no object type

Even the super rich have a budget

They wouldn't stay very rich if they didn't

The only people I can think of is oil rich Arabs who deprecation and other factors for say a supercar isn't a concern

Well specced 3 series are very far from money's no object cars!

[jusdorange]

I would say it's in the top 10-20pc

Depending on if you count joint incomes, rent, kids

so certainly doing well but not crazy

[jusdorange]

Originally Posted by teaston

That's fairly cheap, but not as cheap as these countries, especially Venezuela!!

Yes but Venezuela is heavily subsided

Real cost is about 20p/litre from Saudi
30p from elsewhere

Really wished we only got charged VAT on petrol

Edit: 20p was in UAE, / DUBAI